Priest Warns Obama: Better Knock the Catholic Church Out NOW

Originally posted by adigregorio
So their bandwagon would be moot, since it HAS to be seperate from the states descisions. If they want to join with the state (non-profitness) then they must either jump off of the religion claim, or start offering the option to pop pills. (Also, telling them to offer that option is not forcing their workers to USE that option.)

If a worker was to use that option, well that takes us to confessional does it not? Something between the sinner and their God, not us and our morals.

No comment OPer?

Avoiding my comments, or did you just miss my large post?

Originally posted by adigregorio

Originally posted by seabag
Should taxpayers fund abortion and contraception? Should we be spending money on personal responsibility issues while trillions in debt. Do you care?

We do now, just not for churches. Or can I not get free rubbers in high school? What about free BC pills from planned parenthood? We do know that free is never really "free"? Someone pays for those raincoats and pez.

As for me caring, not really a point. What I mean is, what does my caring matter? It mattered in my faulty reasoning in my first post, because of the whole human flaw (also mentioned in said post) Here, well my caring is of little consequence.

Here is my comment regarding your hatred of paying for contraception via taxes, I notice again you did not respond to it, why?

Of course you did respond to others pointing out the molestorS because that is your only ledge as of now. Of course, methinks you will adress my other points now that I have brought them back out.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by sarra1833

 

I think people as a whole should learn to simply mind their own and not mind everyone else's on personal private matters such as to birth control or not, to pro life or pro choice and /especially/ who one happens to fall in love with.
The entire world has issues much greater than these silly things to worry on, truly.

It most certainly is my business when my healthcare is more expensive so that others can have abortions and contraceptives provided to them.

Not to mention the objection by Christian hospitals who are going to be forced to provide services that go against their views and the protections they have been afforded.

I thought we had a free market? Why should a private hospital be forced to provide a service they don’t want to provide?

Would it be OK if the government mandated that all restaurants in the US must provide tofu simply because a few Americans like it?

edit on 11-3-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)

I actually have to nod in agreement with you. Points made and taken.

Maybe the private hospitals could be like the citizens and choose to opt in or opt out. If you opt in, your personal insurance goes up to cover that. If you opt out, it stays the same. I have zero health insurance so it doesn't affect me either way but that doesn't mean I can't have empathy with others

Yeah, private institutions are that way as far as I know so that they don't have to do like the Joneses; they make their own rules, decisions, etc. Private sectors should be exempt, especially if to do something would go against their very values, morals etc.

Stuff like this is awful to where it divides the population. I suppose my best personal reply would be the opt in. opt out. That way ones insurance won't rise if they don't want it but will if they do. I'd think it'd only be a raise of like 5 to 10 dollars a month anyway. Condoms aren't expensive, dunno how much pills are but those are already covered by some insurances I believe, and not like someone would get monthly terminations (I'D HOPE NOT. I'm pro choice but that would even turn MY stomach and I'd disrespect the person).

It's going to be an icky road this whole thing is going to go down. Mankind. We find more things to bicker, pick, war and snoot about, don't we? Haha, I bet if the ONE day came where the entire world stopped fighting and agreed with each other 100%, that would be the day a planet destroying asteroid would hit. That's just Murphy's Law,

I wouldn't take sexual advice from a celibate.

We either fund abortion and contraceptives now

or

Welfare and prision care later.

Just a little Logic is needed.

The Vatican has ruled the world for a Thousand years or more.
It is time they were brought down.
Did you know that the pope has the (self-given) authority to nulify any US law that is choozes?
24. The Pope can abolish any law in the United States. (Elements of Ecclesiastical Law Vol.1 53-54)

aadivaahan.wordpress.com...
You will have to scroll about 1/2 way down for the item How The World Really Is: UN, IMF, Vatican, et al.

Obama needs to make it clear that the Church needs to remove itself from politics if they want to keep their tax exempt status. Taxing the Catholic church and all their properties would go a long way toward fixing our deficits.Most Catholics wouldn't know what was good for them if it hit them over the head, in fact their support has allowed many of the evils to manifest themselves in America.

reply to post by adigregorio

No comment OPer?

Avoiding my comments, or did you just miss my large post?

Don’t flatter yourself. I was responding to other posts…

So their bandwagon would be moot, since it HAS to be seperate from the states descisions. If they want to join with the state (non-profitness) then they must either jump off of the religion claim, or start offering the option to pop pills. (Also, telling them to offer that option is not forcing their workers to USE that option.)

You may be right…if they agree to take federal money or tax breaks they would in essence be relinquishing some rights.

I’d like to claim that I am a Christian activist who knows the ins and outs of these issues but I’m not. My main beef is that I don’t want Obamacare. I REALLY don’t want Obamacare to include abortion and contraception coverage for ANYONE because I'm pro-life and don't think the government should be holding people's hands.

As for me caring, not really a point. What I mean is, what does my caring matter? It mattered in my faulty reasoning in my first post, because of the whole human flaw (also mentioned in said post) Here, well my caring is of little consequence.

The reason I asked if you cared is because if a person does care about this issue it may affect the way they vote this year…that’s all. Some people couldn’t care less about abortion (the intentional destruction of life for selfish reasons) and don’t care about a candidates position on the matter.

Originally posted by seabag

Do you believe taxpayers should be funding nationalized healthcare and abortions/contraceptives especially at a time when our nation is trillions in debt?

Does this issue matter to you at all? Should it?

Will your vote be strictly about the economy and jobs or will this issue play a role in your decision making process this November?

Doesn't the issue of life and death extend far beyond the realm of religious ideology?

Why am I not surprised that the Catholic church is trying to force its way into American politics? As stated in another thread, I'm sickened that they feel they have the right to push their religious beliefs on all Americans regardless of the fact that only around 22% of Americans belong to their church.

Should taxpayers have to pay for Obamacare? My answer is NO, absolutely not. That opinion aside though, it's being forced down our throats whether we like it or not. Until we can secure leadership that will overturn these unconstitutional laws, I feel that people should get the best value for their money, especially since it's being taken from them against their will. (generally speaking)

I vehemently support coverage of contraceptives, and grudgingly support the coverage of abortion. Some people complain about the cost of covering these procedures, but they fail to understand that the cost of not having them in place would be astronomically higher. People will rage on about the sanctity of life for those yet unborn, yet will freely support an overseas war of aggression whose toll would greatly surpass the number of lives lost to abortion. ALL life is precious.

Elections are about politics and civil law. Those laws apply to all people, and as such should represent the views, beliefs and values of the population as a whole rather than the opinion of a few.

considering how empty pews are on a summer sunday, I don't think this is much of a threat

reply to post by seabag

He goes on to warn Planned Parenthood and President Obama: “You better knock us out right now” because “I can promise you - Here comes the Catholic Church ... you’ve awakened a sleeping giant.”

“Priests and bishops that have in the past been content to remain quiet are no longer so. ... The Truth is being rained down everywhere. ... Here comes the Catholic Church.”

Shouldn't the Papists have been already been out en masse to support their candidate, Rick Santorum? Shouldn't the great and holy might of the mother Church, which somehow sees fit to interject itself into the political arena at every opportunity while hiding behind what amounts to probably the biggest tax shelter in the world, have been able to propel Rick Santorum past Mitt Romney in the primaries so far? It's not as though the Roman Catholic Church was in love with Obama and wasn't looking to get him out of office before now, so what exactly is he supposed to fear from an organization that can't even package their homegrown candidate is such a way that he appeals to enough of the Republican party to edge out Mitt Romney in the quest to gain that party's nomination? Very little. And anyone who thinks that Catholics in the United States are going to vote in lockstep with what the mother Church and the priesthood wants to cram down their throats is living in a fantasy world. Look at the statistics on the number of Catholic women in this country that use contraception, which is in direct opposition to to mandates handed down from Rome.

reply to post by OhZone

We either fund abortion and contraceptives now

or

Welfare and prision care later.

Just a little Logic is needed.

Following your logic, we should begin killing fat people and smokers now so our healthcare costs are cheaper in the future. Looking at this logically, it’s easy to see that these two groups are going to require millions more in healthcare treatment in the future than the rest of us, right?

Logic, huh?

Originally posted by seabag
Don’t flatter yourself. I was responding to other posts…

As I was hoping, I find you to be a "good poster" (whatever that is). As for flattering myself, damn I tried!

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by adigregorio
So their bandwagon would be moot, since it HAS to be seperate from the states descisions. If they want to join with the state (non-profitness) then they must either jump off of the religion claim, or start offering the option to pop pills. (Also, telling them to offer that option is not forcing their workers to USE that option.)

1)You may be right…if they agree to take federal money or tax breaks they would in essence be relinquishing some rights.

2)I’d like to claim that I am a Christian activist who knows the ins and outs of these issues but I’m not. My main beef is that I don’t want Obamacare. I REALLY don’t want Obamacare to include abortion and contraception coverage for ANYONE because I'm pro-life and don't think the government should be holding people's hands.

1) That is what this beef is about though. The Catholics could just say "Fine we don't want your money." And this would be a non-issue. Problem is that money... Well if they want the money, they have to render unto Caesar (and all that).

2) I am with you on Obamacare, but this is not the way to go about it. Their argument is flawed, because of point 1 above. The ONLY ones that can fight this are the people of the US. Unfortunatly, we all know we are not going to fight. So, while rallying behind someone who will fight is not a bad idea. In this instance, the rally seems to be misplaced. Since the only thing the Church is fighting for is the right to keep getting free money, which is tax payer money by the way.

I'd rather my taxes go to something non-religious. But, again, in order for that to happen a people vs government fight has to start...

Originally posted by seabag
The reason I asked if you cared is because if a person does care about this issue it may affect the way they vote this year…that’s all. Some people couldn’t care less about abortion (the intentional destruction of life for selfish reasons) and don’t care about a candidates position on the matter.

I am not a member of the electoral college, so my vote does not matter. At least in regards to the POTUS.

www.howstuffworks.com...

Well, we all know very well that catholic priests certainly DO 'love' children...

I can see why they would be against their cult members aborting them or using contraception. That would leave less children around them.

I certainly would not listen to anything a catholic priest says ESPECIALLY when it involves CHILDREN...

Devils.

reply to post by HangTheTraitors

I can see why they would be against their cult members aborting them or using contraception. That would leave them with less children around them.

I certainly would not listen to anything a catholic priest says ESPECIALLY when it involves CHILDREN...

Did you watch the video? NO?

He wasn’t talking about opening a day care or a human trafficking market, sir! He was discussing the abortion issue and the millions of innocent lives lost each year.

Calm down!

reply to post by seabag


All you Islamaphobes er um, I mean Anti -Semites.. um wait...

Anti-Pediphiles are all the same!

Another Bash thread!

S & F

reply to post by seabag


My fault, in pointing out the flaw in the churches' argument, I have caused an off topic avalanche!

(The flaw was trying to force one law, when blatantly ignoring another.)

PS: The pope knows who touches little boys, and the pope protects them. The pope is the leader of the church, and represents said church. The pope might as well be touching those boys himself, for enabling is just as faulty as doing.

ANYWAY

Church wants to preach religon, fine. If they want to do it without taxes, then BC is a comin'. Of course, you do realize if the government does not back down, the church will accept this? After all, it has to do with money!

First the Catholic church has it's own problems to deal with in this country and should stay out of the political discourse. As for threats to Obama's re-election bid, it is really a joke on it's own as the Church has been in a continual decline in membership in the wake of child abuse and other scandals that do not get reported.

They may have had a legitimate complaint on the insurance mandate. A mandate that a number of states already require that went without comment. Add to this the ignorant right trying to boil this down to using condoms. Prescribed birth control is used for women's health reasons besides birth control. So in effect the church is mandating women to risk severe consequences to their health. At the very least prescribed contraception should be treated as any other prescription.

The other thing people keep failing to understand here is that it is already and has been long established that the Government does have the ability to curtail religious practices it deems against the public good. And they do this for good reason. Luckily the situations where the need to do so have been far and few between they do in fact happen. It is just a fact of society that we have to deal with the two are not always compatible.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by HangTheTraitors

 

I can see why they would be against their cult members aborting them or using contraception. That would leave them with less children around them.

I certainly would not listen to anything a catholic priest says ESPECIALLY when it involves CHILDREN...

Did you watch the video? NO?

He wasn’t talking about opening a day care or a human trafficking market, sir! He was discussing the abortion issue and the millions of innocent lives lost each year.

Calm down!

He was talking about his and the churches opposition to ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION and CHILDREN and them not having a choice.

Did YOU even watch the video? It CLEARLY involves CHILDREN!!

(*SIGH* Goes to show how BLIND and MINDLESS cult members really are that they now cannot even see videos for what they really are when it involves their fairy-tale religions. SIGH!!!)

Originally posted by KeliOnyx
First the Catholic church has it's own problems to deal with in this country and should stay out of the political discourse. As for threats to Obama's re-election bid, it is really a joke on it's own as the Church has been in a continual decline in membership in the wake of child abuse and other scandals that do not get reported.

They may have had a legitimate complaint on the insurance mandate. A mandate that a number of states already require that went without comment. Add to this the ignorant right trying to boil this down to using condoms. Prescribed birth control is used for women's health reasons besides birth control. So in effect the church is mandating women to risk severe consequences to their health. At the very least prescribed contraception should be treated as any other prescription.

The other thing people keep failing to understand here is that it is already and has been long established that the Government does have the ability to curtail religious practices it deems against the public good. And they do this for good reason. Luckily the situations where the need to do so have been far and few between they do in fact happen. It is just a fact of society that we have to deal with the two are not always compatible.

FYI - I don’t particularly care about anyone’s view of the Catholic Church. If I wanted this OP to spark a religious debate I would have posted in a different forum. I’m thinking more along political lines…Doesn't the issue of life and death extend far beyond the realm of religious ideology?

Do you believe taxpayers should be funding nationalized healthcare and abortions/contraceptives especially at a time when our nation is trillions in debt?

Will your vote be strictly about the economy and jobs or will this issue play a role in your decision making process this November?

Why cant either camp respect others rights to these services ?
You Both make me want to puke, as you have no right to pry into others lives and liberty.
Take your biggotted crap to your lord and leave it with him to sort out.....
Or whatever you do, but leave everyone else who doesnt think like your clone to make their own life.....
How effin simple can it be?
There are good examples of both great evil, and great good comming from either side depending upon how yu aproach the subject.
Take it that this is one area where humans dont have the right to stick their morals into other private lives........
You are both getting abominably intrusive and looking like extremists.....fanaticism has no future in our world scheme of things....work it out for humanities sake, and use a little decorum when aproaching other who dont want to be bothered with all this mouth frothing.......
To me medical care is one thing, not a whole bunch of ways to scam the people....
It should be goverment funded, and free to everyone,
We can afford it and we can deliver it....
just stopp gfinancing the largest military industrial complex in the world......
put the congress to work on this country and not everyone elses
Its all a matter of respect....

reply to post by HangTheTraitors

He was talking about his and the churches opposition to ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION and CHILDREN and them not having a choice.

Did YOU even watch the video? It CLEARLY involves CHILDREN!!

How does a priest discussing the lack of ‘choice’ unborn children have who are killed at the request of their selfish parents evoke worries of child molestation??? He can’t comment about the murder of innocent children because some priest somewhere molested a child??

Do you have some information you’re withholding….like THIS PRIEST is guilt of molestation or something?

(*SIGH* Goes to show how BLIND and MINDLESS cult members really that they now cannot even see videos for what they are. SIGH!!!)

I’m a cult member now?

I’m obviously a member of the STUMPYOU club, that’s for sure.