Ancient Civilizations in Australia

reply to post by CaptainNemo


When you say "Australians" are the descendants of Ham, I hope your not referring to the Aboriginals.
Yes they are the "Australians" but for thousands of years they have referred to themselves by their own tribe and still many of them do today.
The term "Australian" was invented back in 1901 and has since come to represent a diverse range of people, much like Americans.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by Tayesin

Would it not be easier to follow up and contact Brett Green yourself in order to gain the info you seek than to just completely dismiss it with so few words?

Clues can be found in many places, and only need some chasing up outside the Box. Brett could easily provide the information you seek, and name those at the museum who assessed the ewer in his possession.

Why you would not follow up has me stumped. Although I have seen plenty of elitism by science-types on these forums over the past 9 years... not saying you are in that limited perception box.

I asked a simple question, your long answer boiled down to no, you had no evidence.

If this individual is so uninterested in providing the information he says he has I have no interest in pursuing it. Secondly the silly story you provided is just laughable, classic fringe - they are out to get me paranoia....so the big bad super evil guys are after him eh? Yet he is still around? lol

Why you would not follow up has me stumped

Because your entire presentation shouts, "waste of time, fringe drama"

Funny thing Hanslune.. that long winded answer was not for You.. it was a reply to Flavian.. did you not see the division (your quote) before replying to you?

And what was said in reply to Flavian is recorded fact.. research it yourself if you choose to think it BS.. The Gympie Times will have all the info about the house fire, etc, and neighbours eye-witness accounts.

What was intended for you was simply a way to contact this person yourself and do you own footwork, but instead you have judged a book by the cover and acted exactly as elitists do.

Of course "I" do not have the evidence.. but I told you who does and how to contact them.

So pull your superior head out of your arse and wake up to yourself.

Ban me if you will Mods.. I'm over these elitist a-holes.

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC
I love this thread, brilliant!
s & f
My husband had an interesting conversation with a miner (there's plenty about) and he commented about the amount of artefacts and bones they dig up and destroy, so their mining is not affected. So it's not just the Aboriginals who protect their histories.
I would love it if they handed the stuff over anonymously so we can all find out what they are.

I believe there are people on this planet that know exactly how we all got here, I can say I'm one.
It is my strong belief we are all related to those ancients, call it a matter of timing that we meet them again.

When we are more curious than fearful we will see I reckon.

Hi Amanda, does your husband mention what "type" of artifacts they are?
Are they for example strange foreign objects, or are they just old Aboriginal items?

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Jace26

 

Thanks for not taking offence and thanks for answering. It wasn't quite what i was getting at though. The vases, maps, etc all possibly show evidence of knowledge of Australia but could also have other explanations. Europe and Asia were possibly bad examples for me to use but South America would be more apt - people had to travel to get there and then left loads of evidence that they were there.

What i was really (and badly) trying to get at is why did the Aborigines not do any of these things? Or did they and they were ruined in some cataclysm? (off shore ruins, etc).

Basically, everywhere mankind has been they have left some sort of evidence of civilization apart from, seemingly, Australia. There must be some reason for that and i wonder if anyone knows what it is? I have to confess that i have no idea!

There have been numerous instances where things were found, yet sent to the museum, only to be placed in the basement.

Now, to the Egyptians. There are heiroglyphs in Australia, which tells a story about a failed expedition. The story goes like this:

Pharoah Khufu sent one of his heirs and sons on an expedition. This expedition was mainly conducted by the Khufu's son, soldiers and some other lower-class people. One day, they experienced difficulties and had to land on the East-Coast of Australia - with the ship being unrepairable, they set off to gather supplies and make shelter. The Pharaoh's son was depicted as the "Pharaoh of the sun land" (or something similar). The Pharaoh of Australia (Khufu's son) came into contact with a snake. Following the incident, the snake had bitten the Pharaoh and he succembed to the poison. The soldiers then prepared the body for burial, and buried him underneath the 'Gosford Glyphs'.

There is a hole next to the glyphs which can only be described as a shaft. People have climbed into it, and the photos/videos display that the ceiling and walls of the shaft are completely smooth (not natural).

Now, the official explanation, from archaeoligists goes something like this:

Egyptians never came into contact with Australia, and the Glyphs are not real as some of the glyphs are not accurate. Furthermore, a man was caught adding to the glyphs, and ever since, he has been held as the guy who made them.

Now onto my counter-argument. Soldiers and the lower-classe Egyptians did not know how to write properly, only upper-class citizens and scholars/Pharaohs could write. So, since the Pharaoh, being the only person knowing how to write properly died, the soldiers, with a limited understanding of how to write, tried to portray the event in the best way possible, so of course there are going to be mistakes.

Note - I cannot supply all of my sources as i have gathered information over an extended period of time and as such, have lost or didn;t properly record the sources, not being able to find them.

Edit - here is the shaft - i can onlt find 1 vid with 1 pic

go to 2:15

Originally posted by Tayesin

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by Tayesin

Would it not be easier to follow up and contact Brett Green yourself in order to gain the info you seek than to just completely dismiss it with so few words?

Clues can be found in many places, and only need some chasing up outside the Box. Brett could easily provide the information you seek, and name those at the museum who assessed the ewer in his possession.

Why you would not follow up has me stumped. Although I have seen plenty of elitism by science-types on these forums over the past 9 years... not saying you are in that limited perception box.

I asked a simple question, your long answer boiled down to no, you had no evidence.

If this individual is so uninterested in providing the information he says he has I have no interest in pursuing it. Secondly the silly story you provided is just laughable, classic fringe - they are out to get me paranoia....so the big bad super evil guys are after him eh? Yet he is still around? lol

Why you would not follow up has me stumped

Because your entire presentation shouts, "waste of time, fringe drama"

Funny thing Hanslune.. that long winded answer was not for You.. it was a reply to Flavian.. did you not see the division (your quote) before replying to you?

And what was said in reply to Flavian is recorded fact.. research it yourself if you choose to think it BS.. The Gympie Times will have all the info about the house fire, etc, and neighbours eye-witness accounts.

What was intended for you was simply a way to contact this person yourself and do you own footwork, but instead you have judged a book by the cover and acted exactly as elitists do.

Of course "I" do not have the evidence.. but I told you who does and how to contact them.

So pull your superior head out of your arse and wake up to yourself.

Ban me if you will Mods.. I'm over these elitist a-holes.

Brilliant & sooo overdue in my opinion.

reply to post by Tayesin


Thank you for the further information. My problem with this is still the same though - basically, lack of corroborating evidence.

I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand but at the same time (and for the same reasons) it cannot be taken as fact either. If further verifiable evidence crops up then that will change our understanding and knowledge of this era. Until then though there are simply too many gaps in the knowledge to accept it as fact.

As such, this would be in the "other" area (not fact but not fiction either).

And by evidence, i do not mean the odd artifact turning up here or there. I mean proper "hard" evidence, such as building foundations, boat wreck, etc.

reply to post by daaskapital


Brilliant thanks Daaskapital.

Again though, i have the same problem. Whilst the glyphs are tantalising, they are not evidence in themselves. By this i mean there is no way of verifying if they are genuine or an elaborate hoax, carved by someone who knows heiroglyphs.

If hard evidence crops up somewhere though then, combined with the other artifiacts already known about, it would be hard to resist.

I do genuinely struggle though with the lack of ruins within Australia. Even if, as suggested, those that got to Australia were not skilled cratfsmen, they would still have known how to construct buildings, etc, just to a lower standard. In other words, there would still be some evidence somewhere.

I fully accept that evidence MAY exist but sadly until it turns up this is simply theory and conjecture.

To put this in context, sites in the UK have turned up all sorts of items. For example, lapis lazuli in ancient jewellry. Is this evidence that ancient Afghans were in Britain? Or simply that someone had acquired the item (probably trade) and it ended up in the UK?

With history and archeology i love to get carried away and think of the possibilities. Sadly though, without corroborating evidence all they are is possibilities.

reply to post by daaskapital


i hate to say it
because that is an awesome story and if it were true it would be increidble
but the video does a pretty good job of debunking it ;\

although.... that shaft looks interesting... what if there are perhaps some original carvings down there, and that is what has been copied?
i wonder if anyone has actually checked ;o

reply to post by Jace26


You. Left out king Solomen of the bible , he had a massive fleet that took trips all around the world , what is interesting is that it speaks of a three year voyage to get gold , many believe they made it to south america and een north America both coasts . Their have been numerous stones found on both continents with Palio Hebrew writings .

reply to post by Azadok


Why would King Solomon go on a yoyage to get gold? Surely he went the same place as the Egyptians went to, Sudan? (Cush to the Egyptians).

reply to post by Tayesin


I share your . . . feelings . . . about the naysayers.

I fail to understand what is sooooooooooo critically important for them to insist that their's is longer at such a shrill tone.

I find your contentions quite plausible and interesting, for sure.

And, given the topic . . . OF COURSE there would not be THE KIND of incontrovertable proof of other topics BECAUSE of the factors involved . . . distance, landscape, hardness of life in the landscape; small size of settlements etc.

Throw in the antipathy of the powers that be who like to define their own self-serving constructions on reality--of course the evidence is going to be spotty.

What's wrong with taking things at face value and either digging up more info or waiting and seeing.

Why all this haughty condescension about merely interesting information.

Who gives a rip if the naysayers' organs are longer? Probably they aren't or they wouldn't be so haughty and prissy about such things trying to overcompensate for their insecurities.

Sheesh.

Folks, life is complex. Most of what we "know" we don't know perfectly or exhaustively. Pretending we do is arrogant.

Cheers for a wonderful thread that's been a pleasure to read . . . except for the haughty naysaying posts.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by BO XIAN


Because that is how evidence works. Something is not "true" until it can be proved.

At present, none of this can realistically be presented as truth. Equally, it cannot be totally dismissed (hence my earlier comment about this being a grey area). If further supporting evidence turns up (rather than sporadic artifacts) then this will become more than an interesting theory.

Until then though that is all it is. A very interesting theory.

To put it another way, what we now know to be true about Egypt today wasn't always what was believed. As further evidence appeared and further insights gained into, for example, hieroglyphs emerged, a new picture could be painted.

reply to post by decepticonLaura


Yes the video does do an alright job at addressing some issues, but i feel it can go either way. Obviously people are going to add their own glyphs once it got popular.

To you and Flavian, here are some links to the glyphs and other artifacts found:

www.crystalinks.com...

www.crystalinks.com...

This is the original translation:

For two seasons he made my way westward, weary, but strong to the end.

Always praying, joyful, and smiting insects.

He, the servant of God, said God brought the insects.

Have gone around hills and deserts, in wind and rain, with no lakes at hand.

He was killed while carrying the Golden Falcon Standard up front in a foreign land, crossing mountains, desert and water along the way.

He, who died before, is here laid to rest.

May he have life everlasting. He is never again to stand beside the waters of the Sacred Mer. Mer meaning 'love'.

There was a moat around the pyramid called the "waters of Mer".

The second facing wall, which was much more seriously eroded, details the tragedy further.

This wall begins with the badly eroded glyph of a snake (Heft), with a glyph of jaws (to bite) and the symbol for 'twice'.

The snake bit twice.

Those followers of the diving Lord 'Khufu', mighty one of Lower Egypt, Lord of the Two Adzes, not all shall return.

We must go forward and not look back.

All the creek and river beds are dry. Our boat is damaged and tied up with rope.

Death was caused by snake.

We gave egg-yolk from the medicine-chest and prayed to Amen, the Hidden One, for he was struck twice.

We walled in the side entrance to the chamber with stones from all around.

We aligned the chamber with the Western Heavens.

The three doors of eternity were connected to the rear end of the royal tomb and sealed in.

We placed beside it a vessel, the holy offering, should he awaken from the tomb.

Separated from home is the Royal body and all others.

Here is inscribed the extraordinary story of the death and burial of 'Lord Djes-eb' one of the sons of the Pharaoh Ra Djedef.

Originally posted by Tayesin


Of course "I" do not have the evidence.. but I told you who does and how to contact them.

yawn, so again you have no evidence

So pull your superior head out of your arse and wake up to yourself.

Ban me if you will Mods.. I'm over these elitist a-holes.

Lol, Just more laughable fringe drama - still don't have any evidence do you? Though not

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Jace26

 

Thanks for not taking offence and thanks for answering. It wasn't quite what i was getting at though. The vases, maps, etc all possibly show evidence of knowledge of Australia but could also have other explanations. Europe and Asia were possibly bad examples for me to use but South America would be more apt - people had to travel to get there and then left loads of evidence that they were there.

What i was really (and badly) trying to get at is why did the Aborigines not do any of these things? Or did they and they were ruined in some cataclysm? (off shore ruins, etc).

Basically, everywhere mankind has been they have left some sort of evidence of civilization apart from, seemingly, Australia. There must be some reason for that and i wonder if anyone knows what it is? I have to confess that i have no idea!

Australia is a land of some pretty harsh extreme's.. massive bushfires, massive floods, strong storms and long hot droughts, anything older then 1000 years wouldn't stand a chance without maintenance, some of the early colonial structures have completely dissapeared already and they are only a little over 200 years old.

Plus, Aboriginal people may well have activly destroyed any leftover's for whatever reason.

reply to post by Flavian


To prove that AE were in Australia you would need to find a habitation site or a port. One can look at one of the Roman trade ports in India on how they would appear in the archaeological record.

The chances of their being an AE colony in Australia is very remote. One only need look at their list of foreign colonies, a very short list......

There naval technology was limited and their overseas ventures (AFAWK) limited

Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by CaptainNemo

 

When you say "Australians" are the descendants of Ham, I hope your not referring to the Aboriginals.
Yes they are the "Australians" but for thousands of years they have referred to themselves by their own tribe and still many of them do today.
The term "Australian" was invented back in 1901 and has since come to represent a diverse range of people, much like Americans.

not that much like Americans... more like Canadians eh.

reply to post by Hanslune


I agree but it is still possible (however remote). However, until irrefutable evidence emerges it is just an interesting theory.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

Because that is how evidence works. Something is not "true" until it can be proved.

At present, none of this can realistically be presented as truth. Equally, it cannot be totally dismissed (hence my earlier comment about this being a grey area). If further supporting evidence turns up (rather than sporadic artifacts) then this will become more than an interesting theory.

Until then though that is all it is. A very interesting theory.

To put it another way, what we now know to be true about Egypt today wasn't always what was believed. As further evidence appeared and further insights gained into, for example, hieroglyphs emerged, a new picture could be painted.

Yes but i think what member was peeved about was the sheer arrogant,elitist & utter condascending brush offs that certain members feel are needed to be posted.I know some replies have made my skin crawl on reading ,I can only begin to imagine the frustration felt by the member that its directed to.I mean why even bother posting in to merely scoff at someones (in your eyes ) ludicroous theory.Is it just to see your post count increase.If so, I will gladly donate 5 posts to your total as im sure a few others would.Added bonus of course would be more free time for you to marvel at the size of your junk.*you know who you are*