Ancient Civilizations in Australia

reply to post by decepticonLaura


Nothing wrong with being addicted to bad ideas. If nothing else, it keeps you sane! Personally, i never trust those that are always correct!

Originally posted by Harte
No legitimate Egyptian artifacts have ever been found in Australia.

Egyptians were never there.

Other than that, nice post OP!

Harte

Brett Green would disagree with you on that score Harte, due to finding a roughly 3 foot tall silver ewer in deep silt at Lake Cootharaba. It is beautiful, and via the Museum of Queensland was dated to the Egypto-Grecian Period.

Generally...

Anyone looking for evidence of ancient culture in Oz would do well to have a look at Brett's written works, especially those showing the ruins of ancient cultures that his great-great grandfather recorded meticulously in his diaries from his time with the native Gubbi Gubbi peoples.

I doubt the Gympie Pyramid was a pyramid at all. From what I've seen of the hill itself in person, from old photos taken before demolition work was done in the early 1940's, and from interviewing the man who did some of that demolition work, I tend to agree with Brett that it was more likely a Ritual Hill, something akin to Glastonbury's Tor before the Church desecrated it with the tower.

reply to post by Tayesin


Unfortunately though a statue is only proof that there was a statue there. It could have got there a myriad of ways. What Harte is saying is that there is no actual evidence of the Ancient Egyptians being in Australia and there really isn't, so Harte is 100% correct.

For that to be confirmed, there would have to be proper evidence, whether that was an Egyptian wreck, an ancient temple / buildings, basically some evidence of settlement.

The odd statue or vase proves absolutely nothing. For example, they could have been transported by early European settlers.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Tayesin

 

Unfortunately though a statue is only proof that there was a statue there. It could have got there a myriad of ways. What Harte is saying is that there is no actual evidence of the Ancient Egyptians being in Australia and there really isn't, so Harte is 100% correct.

For that to be confirmed, there would have to be proper evidence, whether that was an Egyptian wreck, an ancient temple / buildings, basically some evidence of settlement.

The odd statue or vase proves absolutely nothing. For example, they could have been transported by early European settlers.

I don't like the odds for some person in the past 150 years lugging a heavy 3 foot tall (1 Metre) ewer the many, many miles to what was a thickly overgrown area and then lose it in the swampy salt water lake.

It is more likely that during the time this lake was open to the sea that ancient traders may have harboured there, or even docked there for the easily obtainable surface gold the area was known for when the first white explorers came to the area... of which Mr Green's G-G-Grandfather was one.

reply to post by Tayesin


Unfortunately though, without any proper evidence it is simply conjecture.

Don't get me wrong, i would there to be loads of evidence. Sadly though, it either doesn't exist or it hasn't been found.

By the way, during the time that white man was settling in Australia, the rich folk of Europe were undertaking "grand tours" which involved touring ancient antiquity. A lot of this involved "appropriating" objects of interest and then transporting them to wherever they wished them. Therefore it is entirely plausible that a rich early settler was transporting a ripped off artifact that was subsequently lost.

Do we have evidence that this ewer exists?

In archaeology context is king followed by the law of law of stratigraphic superposition, given the high rate of fraud in declarations of finds the need to document the finding of an object is paramount to its acceptance

I love this stuff. I know very little about Australian history but I will definitely read more into this as you got me intrigued. Fascinating S&F

Thanks

I know that Australia was populated before Northern Europe as a world wide study of DNA and the spread of humanity found that out. Also everybody other than sub saharan Africans origionated from only around 13 family groups that left Africa via the Yeman ( sea levels were much lower then). Also Kublai khan who conquered China sent a fleet of massive ships/ junks ( much bigger than galleons) around the pacific, full of chineese products to see and discover new civilisations. His admiral ( i forget the name sorry) left a diary. They sailed to the Americas and Australia but found no civilisation with which to trade.

Originally posted by DeepThoughtCriminal
I am not of Australia, but I did lived there for a year. And when I was there, I learned something about their Aborigines, that being that they came from Asia. Like, Indonesia. The dogs they had, the dingoes, are closely related to wild dogs found in South East Asia. They even look very similar. And if you look at the evolution of Australia's mammalian life, a wild dog would be very weird thing to only sort of spontaneously occur.

Also what are these Masonic hand gestures you say was exchanged between Captain Cook and the Aborigines? When I was looking at Australia's history I never seen anything like that. And if I live in another country for an amount of time, I do all I can to learn all about them and their historys. So, I'm not saying, what my knowledge is complete and it probably worse than an Australian, but I did spent a little time learning this and I saw nothing about Masonic hand gestures at the arrival of Cook.

Also, there is no remains of civilisation. Aborigines were nomadic, and if alien visitors left things like Egyptian pyramids for the Egyptians, why they don't do the same for Australian Aborigines?

So I guess what I ask is, where do you get this information from? Please not, a dodgy website. I suppose that I am academic, and I require verifying sources of information, ones to convince. So don't take me in the wrong way - I seem to offend a lot of Westerners by accident. (I just don't know how to be not direct I guess.)

Is that true? I thought the aboriginals and melanesians down there came from Europe, isn't that a fact? I was sure i read somewhere that aboriginals have substantial amounts of denisovan genes, which shows they came directly from the mountains in eastern europe or interbred at least with people who did

reply to post by JailTales


IT can not be true. Europe was covered in an ice age when Australia was first populated. Europe or at least Northern Europe was the last continent to be colonised by man

Originally posted by adarmis


China sent a fleet of massive ships/ junks ( much bigger than galleons) around the pacific, full of chineese products to see and discover new civilisations. His admiral ( i forget the name sorry) left a diary. They sailed to the Americas and Australia but found no civilisation with which to trade.

Admiral Zheng He or Cheng Ho in the old spelling

He said to the West which for the Chinese was the Indian Ocean



He didn't get to Australia or the Americas

reply to post by Hanslune


Im sorry i cnt remember were i read it as it was many years ago, but i definately read that the chineese had reached the north west coast of the americas. There is an oral history among the native americans of canada relating to this. about 100 years before the spanish sailed up the pacific coast

Originally posted by adarmis
reply to post by JailTales

 

IT can not be true. Europe was covered in an ice age when Australia was first populated. Europe or at least Northern Europe was the last continent to be colonised by man

Then how would you explain the presence of denisovan genomes in aboriginals?

reply to post by JailTales


white settlers mating with the locals. is the obvious answer

Linguistic parallels are not conclusive of an ancestral connection, it certainly does add to the mystique. At the most it's just circumstantial evidence. One should ask, where are the tools? Where are the artifacts of an Egyptian voyage? The Uluru region is deeply inland, that's a lot of traveling to do.

It is my belief that the origins of these peoples are the descendants of the biblical Ham.

I also want to call into question the accuracy of those cave painting dates, It's my belief that they are much younger.

Originally posted by adarmis
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Im sorry i cnt remember were i read it as it was many years ago, but i definately read that the chineese had reached the north west coast of the americas. There is an oral history among the native americans of canada relating to this. about 100 years before the spanish sailed up the pacific coast

This is a later 'event' and not connected with the Admiral. Ships from Asia will drift to the Pacific Northwest. One came in just as Europeans were getting to the coast. It may have happened before by chance or deliberately.

Otokichi

Otokichi was a 14-year-old crew member on a rice transport ship bound for Edo, the Hojunmaru (宝順丸), 15 meters in length with a cargo of 150 tons and a crew of 14. The ship left on November 3, 1832, but was caught in a storm and blown off-course far out in the Pacific Ocean.

The ship, without a mast or a rudder, was carried across the northern Pacific Ocean by currents. It drifted for 14 months, during which the crew lived on desalinated seawater and on the rice of their cargo. Several crew members died of scurvy; only three survived by the time they made landfall at Cape Alava, the westernmost point of Washington's Olympic Peninsula, in 1834. The three survivors were Iwakichi, 29; Kyukichi, 16; and Otokichi, then 15.

The three castaways were looked after and briefly enslaved by the Makah Indian tribe. They were later handed over to John McLoughlin, the Chief Factor for the Columbia District at the Hudson's Bay Company. While there, they met Ranald MacDonald, at that time a child, who was inspired by the memory to travel as an adult to then isolated Japan in 1848. MacDonald became the first Westerner to teach English there, and, like Otokichi, was instrumental in bringing Japan into increasing contact with the Western world.

Japanese wrecks in the Pacific northwest

I love this thread, brilliant!
s & f
My husband had an interesting conversation with a miner (there's plenty about) and he commented about the amount of artefacts and bones they dig up and destroy, so their mining is not affected. So it's not just the Aboriginals who protect their histories.
I would love it if they handed the stuff over anonymously so we can all find out what they are.

I believe there are people on this planet that know exactly how we all got here, I can say I'm one.
It is my strong belief we are all related to those ancients, call it a matter of timing that we meet them again.

When we are more curious than fearful we will see I reckon.

Originally posted by adarmis
reply to post by JailTales

 

white settlers mating with the locals. is the obvious answer

How is that the obvious answer, when the presence of denisovan genomes is absent almost everywhere in the world

are you giving any thoughts to the questions i'm asking you? seems you're dismissing them out of hand, even though you seem to not understand what's being asked

reply to post by JailTales


I've heard about that too, its either Indo-Aryan peoples who are their descendants or perhaps white people from eastern Russia made it to Australia?

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
Linguistic parallels are not conclusive of an ancestral connection, it certainly does add to the mystique. At the most it's just circumstantial evidence. One should ask, where are the tools? Where are the artifacts of an Egyptian voyage? The Uluru region is deeply inland, that's a lot of traveling to do.

It is my belief that the origins of these peoples are the descendants of the biblical Ham.

I also want to call into question the accuracy of those cave painting dates, It's my belief that they are much younger.

Australia is a BIG country, with even now still very little of it discovered.
You also have to take into account where would ancient civilizations like the Egyptians build if they made it too Australia.
Well the answer I think is quite obvious, take Perth for example; Where there are ancient mining sites scattered across inland WA. But where did they take the minerals?
For trade obviously, so any settlement would likely be on a coastal strip and since we are talking thousands of years ago the most likely answer is that they are now underwater, much like the underwater cities off Japan.
The only reference left are artifacts which have an unknown reason for being here.

I have also heard of underwater cities off the coast of New Guinea, as well as one off far north Queensland?
There have also been reports of "temple" ruins with stone pillars engraved with snake heads, etc, in the Blue Mountains, but I have no idea if that one is true or not.