Ancient Civilizations in Australia

reply to post by Flavian


Yes, I'm aware of the trafficking in artifacts carried out in the 18 and 1900's.

One only needs to see the area as it is now, and then compare that to how the area was when white man arrived to know how near to impossible the scenario is that any European dropped this large vessel where it was found.

One thing about evidence, as Brett has learned the hard way, is that there are groups who are extremely opposed to anyone putting forward theories that are alternative to the accepted story. As a consequence Brett had 4 black sedans arrive at his house while he was away, the well dressed men from those vehicles set his house alight.. while the police and fire service were called by concerned neighbours, they did not arrive until well after the house was a pile of smouldering ashes... despite only being 5 minutes away from the site of the blaze.

Fortunately for Brett, he had foreseen the depths that some groups will sink to and insured the artifacts he has were secreted with other people.

Twelve years ago I was fortunate enough to view all of his artifacts when they were brought together for one evening.. simple stunning is all I can say.

Originally posted by Hanslune
Do we have evidence that this ewer exists?

In archaeology context is king followed by the law of law of stratigraphic superposition, given the high rate of fraud in declarations of finds the need to document the finding of an object is paramount to its acceptance

Hi Hans,

I can't help you with an answer other than I know this man and trust him, I have seen the artifacts, ewer included, and know they do exist. But here is a link to one of Brett's websites which will have contact information so you can follow up with him personally.

Here

ps.. I do enjoy your threads as they are always enlightening.

Absolutely fascinating post OP. I don't doubt for a minute that other civilizations found Australia. I think that the ancient civilizations like the Chinese and the Egyptians ranged allot further than they are given credit for. Just because there are no written records of such voyages doesn't mean that they didn't happen. I believe that ancient man was as smart as modern man.(with the way the world is today ,maybe smarter). There were certainly very good sailors in ancient times

Back a while ago I read about a theory which said that South America may have been settled by the Polynesians. Perhaps around the time that the aboriginals were settling Australia.

The discovery of artifacts is a strong indicator that they were there. Maybe not proof, but suggestive of them being there. It would make sense that if a trader from one of these civilizations were to discover valuable mineral wealth there that they would go there and tell no one.

As I recall there is an ancient map which shows the coast of Antartica with out the ice on it. I always found that most curious. It's believed to be a copy of an even more ancient map. I have always wondered what great wonders were lost when the Library of Alexandria burned.

reply to post by Tayesin


I'll take that as no, then

reply to post by Tayesin


I followed your link to the site you spoke of. I also followed the link posted on that site. I find it interesting that Australias Federal government has approved building a road right through the site. This begs the question as to why they would want to destroy such a site. Especially with what you said about the mans home being burned down. I find this most curious.

What reason could they have for doing such a thing? What is there that they want to hide by destroying the site? This really opens a good many questions about what may be there.

Originally posted by DeepThoughtCriminal
I am not of Australia, but I did lived there for a year. And when I was there, I learned something about their Aborigines, that being that they came from Asia. Like, Indonesia. The dogs they had, the dingoes, are closely related to wild dogs found in South East Asia. They even look very similar. And if you look at the evolution of Australia's mammalian life, a wild dog would be very weird thing to only sort of spontaneously occur.

Also what are these Masonic hand gestures you say was exchanged between Captain Cook and the Aborigines? When I was looking at Australia's history I never seen anything like that. And if I live in another country for an amount of time, I do all I can to learn all about them and their historys. So, I'm not saying, what my knowledge is complete and it probably worse than an Australian, but I did spent a little time learning this and I saw nothing about Masonic hand gestures at the arrival of Cook.

Also, there is no remains of civilisation. Aborigines were nomadic, and if alien visitors left things like Egyptian pyramids for the Egyptians, why they don't do the same for Australian Aborigines?

So I guess what I ask is, where do you get this information from? Please not, a dodgy website. I suppose that I am academic, and I require verifying sources of information, ones to convince. So don't take me in the wrong way - I seem to offend a lot of Westerners by accident. (I just don't know how to be not direct I guess.)

5000 years ago Melanesian crossed the Indonesian land bridge - bringing dingoes. Many many different people have come and are collectively called aboriginals. They took over coastal areas, or at least Australoid's found away from the coast are much different to negritos people, the later being akin to the people found in the Adaman islands south from India and I don't think many of them lasted colonization as purebloods - Tasmania being the prime example. These people were truly primitive. Early explorers included 7 distinct race types. They weren't against making arbitrary racial generalizations, but what I've read makes it pretty certain that the dessert people were far more advanced. Photo's of really primitive aboriginals, such as the ones from Dunk
Island are nowadays hard to find.

The OP didn't mention this but India also makes a claim, even at the highest academic levels. They state that a large amount of aboriginals are directly related to them. I've also heard that they, the Indians are descendants of aboriginals and not the other way around. Looking at the map around 10,000 years ago, the good land was the area ABOVE the top-end between Indonesia and Australia, now the Arafura sea. There could well have been a thriving civilization. The conditions would be incredibly fertile. People would be a mixed bag of travelers escaping climate change.

One more major inclusion should be South American's - definitely Aztecs or whatever you can call whichever civilization from that area made it here and kept coming over 50,000's years. The thing is Australia is a months float on a raft and if you are lost for long enough you will float to Australia. It's a proven fact that a current flows directly to Nth Australia.

Take what I've said with a grain of salt. Much of what I read is circumspect. History books are hopeless. It's well known that there is a PC agenda behind Australian anthropology.

I particularly like this site www.convictcreations.com...

Q. I've never understood how Australia managed to remain relatively untouched. I can see how groups of around 100 would be absorbed without a trace - much of a trace, but...
New Zealand was colonized by Polynesians only a few hundred years before. Surely 6000 primitive negrito's in Tasmania couldn't hold back any landings.. or could they, did they..? It makes no sense. The Chinese were extracting gold from an inland sea. That must have been a very long time ago. Why didn't they do what they've done everywhere else? All of Asia was populated by people like aboriginals only 10,000 years ago..

My only guess, is that until the renaissance and the industrial era etc nobody much cared. There wasn't so much of a sense of organized nation state over 500 years ago, for the various people that discovered Australia. Moreover, Australia was at the end of any migration route. It was never a cross road. Nothing ever came back.

My only other guess, is that aboriginals were much better at killing their enemy than I suspect. I don't know. There were many cannibalistic tribes in the North.

It might also stem from their primitiveness. They couldn't be made to work, (what I've heard Japanese say about people in PNG during WWII). Not useful.

Last thought. I think one of the latest influx of people killed off the existing population before colonization and probably not that long before and probably it's been kept secret.

Originally posted by Jace26

Originally posted by lordpiney
According to this, there were even giants living there in the past...
www.cartage.org.lb...

I don't want this thread to go off topic, but interestingly enough many Aboriginal tribes speak of a "Great War" between the Aboriginals and a giant humanoid race. In the end the giants were pushed out from the plains and into the mountains (the Blue mountains?) where it is believed they still exist today.

Some of these tribes would be pigmy people.

I'll hazard a guess and say the negritos coastal people were slaughtered by Australoids and then pushed back - into the desserts. Those two groups never co-habit an area anywhere, be it Australia or South Asia. All archeological sites show the groups as separated from each other.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by jgmara

 

Now that is some very interesting extra info thanks jgmara.

That is more like the native american existence then? The curious thing though is that even the native americans left some clues, for example the animal mounds (snakes, etc) and even the city in the cliffs (can't remember exactly where but tempted to say Arizona).

The Abo's were probably far too busy avoiding all the little nasties rather than having time to build stuff!

If you date native American's back 10,000 years they might look more like aboriginal Australians. Europe is too close and there are accounts of people colonizing the America's throughout the ages. To my mind, the people found 500 years ago were already strongly influenced by the cultures: North / West and South. Also they are Asiatic, no? The older people would have been black fella's.

I think that "Abo's" didn't do much because they didn't have to. The nomadic ones never settled and the coastal people who needed to trade and did some farming were invariably in harms way. It seems to me that nomadic people would have developed more immunities to disease than sparsely populated aboriginal camps that stay put over 10,000 years.

Originally posted by JailTales

Originally posted by adarmis
reply to post by JailTales

 

IT can not be true. Europe was covered in an ice age when Australia was first populated. Europe or at least Northern Europe was the last continent to be colonised by man

Then how would you explain the presence of denisovan genomes in aboriginals?

Denisovian genome is derived from a type of aboriginal. There are striking similarities between 'some' Indians and 'some aboriginals, in some ways.. The thing is, Australoid / denisovians predate Caucasians, so it's a matter of finding groups that are untouched.

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
Linguistic parallels are not conclusive of an ancestral connection, it certainly does add to the mystique. At the most it's just circumstantial evidence. One should ask, where are the tools? Where are the artifacts of an Egyptian voyage? The Uluru region is deeply inland, that's a lot of traveling to do.

It is my belief that the origins of these peoples are the descendants of the biblical Ham.

I also want to call into question the accuracy of those cave painting dates, It's my belief that they are much younger.

I'm replying far too much here, but I share this feeling. NB: Cave painting can't be dated accurately.

While some claim the Wandjina are ancient astronauts, others have suggested they were in fact Egyptian and Phoenician seafarers who may have landed on the Kimberley coastline during the South East Asian trading expeditions over 3,000 years ago. Archaeologists have pointed out the similarities in the garments of the Wandjina to those of early middle eastern seamen. This possibility is further supported by the presence of middle eastern blood groups, racial features, and Egyptian words used among local Aboriginal tribes. Which brings us to our next topic, the Egyptians.

Easier to believe Egyptians and Phoenicians vandalizing some grizzly bears' cave than swallowing ancient astronaughts who just happened to have a desire to mix red ochre and spit all around their hands to make primative finger paints on a cave wall in a fit of creativity, while toking up on earth's oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere.

Originally posted by lonegurkha


As I recall there is an ancient map which shows the coast of Antartica (sic) with out the ice on it. I always found that most curious. It's believed to be a copy of an even more ancient map. I have always wondered what great wonders were lost when the Library of Alexandria burned.

Ah, the old 'Piri Reis' raises its head once again.
No, it's not of an ice-free Antarctica. It's been covered on this site before and a simple search will lead you to all sorts of weird and wonderful conjecture and some level heads. You can choose which side you sit on.

Australians are the descendants of the biblical Ham. After the flood there were THREE men and THREE women.

Perhaps this chart can explain the Egyptian linguistic similarities, and why some native american have middle eastern merchant dialects

Additionally, there are striking similarities between the languages of ancient Egypt and those of the Native Americans that inhabited the areas around Louisiana about the time of Christ. Epigraphy experts have stated that the languages of the Attakapa, Tunica and Chitimacha tribes have affinities with Nile Valley (Egyptian) languages involving certain words associated with Egyptian trading communities of 2,000 years ago. Scholars note the Algonquian and Siouan peoples used pictographs and ideographic writing symbols that also have similarities with ancient Canaanites.

soundchristian.com...

Originally posted by CaptainNemo


Australians are the descendants of the biblical Ham. After the flood there were THREE men and THREE women.

Which flood?

Surely not the one purported by the bible, but unsupported by any physical evidence?

reply to post by Jace26


Hello ATS Readers,

Thanks Jace26, most interesting post.

Yep, been reading on this type of stuff for a long time.

Some say there were 4 or 5 civilizations before the present one.. Lemurians, and Atlanteans are two of the previous "worlds" spoken about.

Just as it is hard to believe the Sumerians just "showed up" with all kinds of knowledge, or Egyptians popped up with all the architecture skills they had.... there HAD to be a seed race or colony SOMEWHERE, right?

As things like the Bosnian Pyramids seem more and more like the REAL DEAL... older than Giza's.. it begins to whittle away at secular history... eh what??

Its been ages but somewhere in Oz some odd rock drawings had been found.. not Abo writings but far older...I remember reading about it, of course there was specualtion on the claims too.

Chinese anchors have been found off the coast of California... Chinese used to mine gold in New Zealand.. a fleet was severely damaged by a fire ball ages ago.. set the sails on fire, scorched men on deck.. and killed a bunch of the MOA birds off, their feathers caught on fire.

The old Maori name for MOA bird means something like bird that disappeared by fire..

Will they someday find traces undeniable by secular science to a far older world??/ Does it lie under the ice of our south polar regions?

A most fascinating topic... one far from dead or put to rest by solid science..

Pravdaseeker

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by Tayesin

 

I'll take that as no, then

Would it not be easier to follow up and contact Brett Green yourself in order to gain the info you seek than to just completely dismiss it with so few words?

Clues can be found in many places, and only need some chasing up outside the Box. Brett could easily provide the information you seek, and name those at the museum who assessed the ewer in his possession.

Why you would not follow up has me stumped. Although I have seen plenty of elitism by science-types on these forums over the past 9 years... not saying you are in that limited perception box.

Considering the vast landscape of Aus is largely unpopulated. We are mainly coast huggers there is so much potential to find more. We have dessert sands which are largely unexplored. Cave systems. The aboriginal people who existed here pre EurAsian settlement exhibit a very advanced understanding of spirituality and spiritual technology. Ie (Pointing the bone) Or spirit lance.
If you are looking for structural works one must consider that the weather in this country is very harsh and erodes even the stone with gusto. Having taken this into consideration one must also consider the nomadic and adaptive requirements of surviving in this country. While one may be able to survive as a fisherman on the coast the nomadic lifestyle is a survival requirement as you move inwards.
Anyone who has found themselves in the bush very quickly reassesses their priorities and shutting oneself up in a brick castle in this type of environment is like putting oneself in an oven.
The mining communities here have taken to building underground to get relief from the heat so it is there and cave systems taking advantage of them that would be the adaptive technology that possibly was employed by explorers from other countries.
A wood cabin or shack would probably only last a few hundred years here and with cyclones floods and bush-fires and the rest standing structures would be lucky to survive.
My thoughts that if early explorers did get homesick and spend the massive amounts of energy it would take to create stonework settlements they would be buried in mud by now.
The olgas are of interest and note as a unique type of "natural"structure however the cave systems through out Australia very extensive.

reply to post by aorAki


Yes, that flood, except with alot of physical evidence.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Tayesin

Would it not be easier to follow up and contact Brett Green yourself in order to gain the info you seek than to just completely dismiss it with so few words?

Clues can be found in many places, and only need some chasing up outside the Box. Brett could easily provide the information you seek, and name those at the museum who assessed the ewer in his possession.

Why you would not follow up has me stumped. Although I have seen plenty of elitism by science-types on these forums over the past 9 years... not saying you are in that limited perception box.

I asked a simple question, your long answer boiled down to no, you had no evidence.

If this individual is so uninterested in providing the information he says he has I have no interest in pursuing it. Secondly the silly story you provided is just laughable, classic fringe - they are out to get me paranoia....so the big bad super evil guys are after him eh? Yet he is still around? lol

Why you would not follow up has me stumped

Because your entire presentation shouts, "waste of time, fringe drama"

Ok , firstly I would like to know where you are finding some of this information as most of it is hearsay.

It seems to me you are relying heavily on the writings of Rex Gilroy who, quite frankly, doesn't have a lot of credibility, he sees a lot of things in the landscape and fits them into his theories, when in fact there is no real evidence.
Rex Gilroy's site
He has been debunked many times, here's an example.

In quest of Australia’s lost pyramids
2004, Jul 1st
by Anthony G. Wheeler

Full artical

When I first saw the so-called pyramid for myself it was difficult to believe that we were at the right place. It’s just an ordinary low grassy hill by the main road from Gympie to Tin Can Bay with an irregular covering of trees, a couple of straggly patches of prickly pear, some old stone, some dead wood bulldozed into piles, some discarded bits of barbed wire and other rubbish, and a lot of cow pats left by grazing cattle. What are we left with? The facts are (probably) that the Gympie “Golden” pyramid is actually an ordinary hill terraced by early Italian immigrants for viniculture that has been disfigured by erosion and the removal of stone from the retaining walls for use elsewhere; the stone wall around Gympie’s Surface Hill Uniting Church is exactly what the Rev Mr Geddes says it is — a wall made from irregular, freshly quarried stone. The “Gympie Ape/Iron Man” statue was carved by a Chinese gold prospector and later abandoned. The sun symbol and snakes were carved quite recently. The prickly pear was introduced to Australia by early settlers journeying via South America. As for all the supporting statements by the various authorities, all but a few unimportant ones fade away as one after another proves to be a misquote, a falsification or an outright fabrication.

Dr Wheeler's credentials source

He (Rex) also claims to have found and to possess many artifacts, most of which there are no pics for, none of which have been authenticated by proffessionals.

I'm west australian, born in Perth, and as far as I know the only credibly evidence for visitors here pre-settlement is the dutch ship wrecks along our coast.
Shipwrecks of Western Australia

I can't find any evidence of "ancient mining" here either.

So sorry, until you find a source other than Rex, it's mostly imagination and a case of "seeing what you want to see".

cheers.

reply to post by PennyQ


There are definately ancient mines located near Perth, I haven't heard of them anywhere else in Australia only near Perth. I remember reading that they were apparently 5,000 to 10,000 years old.
But ask yourself?
Why would the Aboriginals mine for tin and copper?
They were a primitive people so they had no use for minerals, so who mined there?