Two Fmr US Senators File Statements With NY Court Connecting Saudi Arabia With 9/11 Attacks

Good for them! God, I hope something comes of this, 10 years later even.

Just got my copy today of The Big Bamboozle by Philip Marshall. Will start reading tonight.

I'll revisit this thread.

Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by NorEaster

 

No offense but are you guys STILL going on about 911?
That was years ago, move on.

Are you serious? Wow. You are exactly what the NWO wants and needs. The system has cultivated you well. Nothing to see here move on... Seriously YOU just said that for real.

Hello? Is there anybody home. You can still turn on the lights if you try.

reply to post by CourageousEyesoftheHeart


The lights are on, but, sadly...
"nobody's home".

Originally posted by ProudBird

OP: THIS is a tip of the iceberg, and the stink that all of the most rabid "9/11 conspiracy" and "The Gumbint Did It!" have been nattering on about for the last decade. The stink of "cover-up" is real.....it's just that the so-called "truthers" have been on the wrong track. Something I've known for a long time.

You seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions here. There currently is a link to a link to a link. There is little doubt that some Saudi's have and perhaps are contributing to "terrorism". That is a known fact. There might even be Saudi's within the Government who have contributed, but that certainly doesn't make it "State Policy" any more than it did when Americans were contributing to the IRA. You are blatantly committing a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude at a premature stage. Both Graham and Kerry are both retired, but both have known about this for years while they were still in office. Why now? Graham has a book coming out soon and Kerry is running for office again. Could there possibly be ulterior motives involved? It too premature to speculate.

Originally posted by ProudBird
The real crime is fully on Bush, and his cronies....but not that they "did" 9/11.....their actions show their guilt at, as this thread is revealing, covering up the Saudi connection.

You've been blasting "truthers" for years for pulling stuff from their nether regions and now here you are doing the same thing... Hypocritical don't you think?

Originally posted by ProudBird
And that is what "9/11 truthers" have "sensed" all these years.

Yea, sure. With space beams, DEW, dustification, missiles at the Pentagon, NOC/Fly overs, Stand Down Orders, and accusations of Govt shoot down of UA 93 and more... All with no evidence. Whats different about what you're doing now? A law suit has been filed, that's all.

Originally posted by ProudBird
The rest of their claims, all the nonsense that has ensued, are distractions from this simple fact. It is not beyond logic that a LOT of the craziest and most incorrect claims made have been "inserted" by Bush shills into the many narratives, as well.....in order to keep them diverted from this truth.

Secret agents, huh? That certainly sounds familiar. I wonder why?

reply to post by Reheat


I tried to be brief....and neglected to add the other layers of mis-steps by the Bush and Co. as well. I just see this as an added dimension to the puzzle.

I didn't pull from the "nether regions".....and didn't intend it to come off as if it (9/11) was a Saudi state-sponsored operation. However, there are no doubt elements within Saudi Arabia that will lean towards extremism, rather than tolerance as regards the West, and others who they consider to be "infidels".


The nationalities of the majority of the hijackers might be tangential to this....more will come out....but it did seem that the Bush Administration played it down greatly....and used a lot of distraction techniques (Afghanistan first, then Iraq [**]). It seems clear, looking back, that they (Bush and Co.) also completely fumbled the ball when it came to the Intel...it's very possible that the alphabet agencies were dysfunctional, as they competed for "turf" and "glory" and likely had wind of the 9/11 plot.....but got caught flat-footed when it occurred before they expected. There is a strong suspicion of this, and that there was a "plan" to make a big bust, and reap the glory of intervening "just in time".....this is also a valid reason for the Bush Administration stone-walling and dissembling, after-the-fact.


Should have included these other elements to the tale, but tried to focus on the OP....to the detriment of my clarity and explanation.


[**] Forgot to add, it also seems clear that Bush/Cheney (mostly neo-con Cheney, I'd surmise) had already intended to take down Saddam Hussein. These plans were simply accelerated, and certainly made "easier" to "justify", as a result of the 9/11 attacks.

reply to post by Reheat



prowdbird snuggeling back up to the ol'boys again in 5....4....3....2....
( i did not even make it to 1 it seems....)





I do however think that immune made a good point. So whats left? Bin laden always denied it and the man never even made it to america's 10 most wanted list ,it does not get more unlikely then that. he was already presumed dead years ago ,recently got shot and his body dumped into the ocean with no photo's or any evidence to show for.Yeah unlikely

A group of israelis were caught filming the whole thing and got arrested ,send back to israel within days without a proper investigation and them claiming they were simply there to document it.

Who else ?

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Reheat

 

[**] Forgot to add, it also seems clear that Bush/Cheney (mostly neo-con Cheney, I'd surmise) had already intended to take down Saddam Hussein. These plans were simply accelerated, and certainly made "easier" to "justify", as a result of the 9/11 attacks.

edit on Thu 1 March 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)

That is at least something i can agree on to a certain extend.

reply to post by Rafe_


The pilots DID have difficulty, they weren't really "passionate" about flying....they probably saw it as a means to an end...a "job" to perform.


There are cases of them being rejected, told not to bother....but then they just switched to another school, and kept at it.

Even the story (which you seem to refer?) about the Cessna was really Hanjour attempting to get checked out to rent the 172, at Freeway Airport in Maryland. Here is what you never see on "conspiracy" sites"

"Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said" www.pentagonresearch.com...

(Broken link, unfortunately to "pentgonresearch").

The source


Much of the problems they had was due to their poor English. As a former Flight Instructor, I can attest to that causing a great deal of problems. But, although I probably would have told them it wasn't worth their effort to learn to fly (I only had to do that once....it was language....Persian....mechanical and coordination inability combined) they had plenty of money.....and eventually they found schools willing to take their money, regardless. Often, as Americans, they could have simply justified it by thinking, "They will go back to their own country, after they're done here".

A video:




This meme about the hijacker pilots being "unable" is just plane (bad pun...) wrong. For all they needed to do was to steer....nothing "fancy" nor complicated. Most of the time they were just using the Auto Pilot and Auto Throttles (poorly, based on the FDR I've seen from AAL 77 and UAL 93)....but, they had learned the basics for that, and it was enough.

I could show you how to use the A/P and A/T in just a few hours....maybe only one or two, depends on how well you apply yourself to the lesson.

reply to post by ProudBird


There has never been a doubt in my mind that the events of 9/11 were a colossal intelligence failure. That much has been obvious from virtually the very beginning. However, I don't for a minute believe that G.W. Bush was complicit in this intentionally. There are too many layers of information transfer to think that it was intentional. There would need to be a whole bunch of folks involved and I don't believe there are that many dishonest folks that would cooperate with any intentional dilution of facts or information. It was simply a covert operation that should have been detected IF there had been cooperation between the various agencies. If you want to blame a POTUS then blame the previous administration for gutting the intelligence community and the military agencies, as well...

The Bush Administration had been in Office for some 9 months and to presume they could resolve all of the problems created previously is very optimistic indeed. The Bush Administration did indeed use the events of 9/11 indirectly to justify the invasion of Iraq. There is little question that they capitalized on that...

A Saudi link was investigated, but the conclusion reached was that simply too complicated to pursue within reasonable time constraints. To accuse the POTUS or the Administration for shutting down the investigation is too premature to judge. They were all primarily interested in the CYA issue, no doubt, but to make accusations of other motives is premature and without justification at this point in time.

What are Graham's and Kerry's motives now? They have known about these issue's for over 10 years... Why didn't they speak when they had the opportunity to do so while still in office?

A link to a link to a link is not evidence. I seriously doubt that anything at all can be established other than what is already known... What are we going to do when the House of Saud refuses to cooperate? Invade them?

As I said earlier there was individual Saudi Citizen's involvement; that much is known already. But, that is a far cry from proving Saudi Government involvement. I seriously doubt that would have been possible to establish either then or now unless they were/are willing to fully cooperate. That is extremely unlikely as has been proven by past experience.

I'm interested to see what the "truther" response will be if a direct link is eventually proven provided this goes further than the current law suit in a US Court. That's just the insidious monster in me to watch with delight as "truthers" have to eat their disgusting words after all these years of ranting about how the evil Bush Administration has killed millions for personal gain and more.... Will they advocate an invasion of the evil Saudi regime if they are eventually linked as an Official State sponsor of the 9/11 attacks?

reply to post by ProudBird


I too have taught middle easterners to fly. Rather I tried to. In this case it was mostly Iranians on a State Department assistance program when the Shaq was still in power...

In addition to poor English language skills, they had a very poor aptitude for flying. It has a lot to do with their lack of any mechanical knowledge during their developmental years. Even things like riding a bicycle or using a wheelbarrow was foreign to them.. The best student I ever had was equivalent to a below average American student.

There was an Iraqi student in another class when I was in USAF Pilot Training who was previously qualified to fly Migs of some sort. He apparently was in a USAF Pilot Training program for the social activities as he was an exceptionally poor student. He washed out and was sent back to Iraq probably to be killed.

One of the major problems was/is their selection criteria. It was/is based on their family connections with those in power, not their aptitude for flying or their educational background....

reply to post by NorEaster


Well if that were true why isn't there an Iraq war thread about the millions of people killed?
Who is going to investigate their murders?

Oh thats right the case is already solved isn't it, America is responsible.

Note: In Australia we spell it as offence.

Originally posted by Reheat

Originally posted by ProudBird

OP: THIS is a tip of the iceberg, and the stink that all of the most rabid "9/11 conspiracy" and "The Gumbint Did It!" have been nattering on about for the last decade. The stink of "cover-up" is real.....it's just that the so-called "truthers" have been on the wrong track. Something I've known for a long time.

You seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions here. There currently is a link to a link to a link. There is little doubt that some Saudi's have and perhaps are contributing to "terrorism". That is a known fact. There might even be Saudi's within the Government who have contributed, but that certainly doesn't make it "State Policy" any more than it did when Americans were contributing to the IRA. You are blatantly committing a "guilty until proven innocent" attitude at a premature stage. Both Graham and Kerry are both retired, but both have known about this for years while they were still in office. Why now? Graham has a book coming out soon and Kerry is running for office again. Could there possibly be ulterior motives involved? It too premature to speculate.

The legal statements were made within the context of a multi-billion dollar lawsuit being allow to proceed (finally) against the Saudi Governement and Royal family by the families of the 9/11 victims. This lawsuit has been blocked for many years, but has finally been given the green light to go forward. The statements from these two fmr Senators are just part of the 1st wave of testimony and legal documents filings in the case.

Graham and Kerrey were deeply involved in the govt's 9/11 investigation (such as it was) and their testimony is much more germane to the issue than a book (since when does Graham have another book about the 9/11 report coming out?) and Kerrey's plans to run for Senate again (and since when does being a 9/11 "truther" help Kerrey win his seat back in Kansas?).

This firm belief in a Saudi Royal Family and Government connection has been sworn to by both Graham and Kerrey in open federal district court, and under every legal threat that this statement suggests and implies. This isn't some rant by some truther on a website somewhere. Either you understand the actual and legal implications of this development or you don't, but dismissing this news as "old news" reveals either your ignorance of the topic being discussed or your need to obfuscate the specifics before any of it gels in the minds of other folks reading this thread.

Regardless of what you are capable of understanding about this news, it's being presented in court, in a federal district court, there are many billions of dollars in damages on the line, and the royal House of Saud is the target of this legal action. Not a fringe group that exists within that family or some terrorist cell of Al Qaeda that is hidden within that family or that government. The facts are extremely clear here. This is the Saudi Royal Family (the Saudi government) that is being sued for being integral to the 9/11 attacks and their planning and financing.

Whether you believe they were involved or not, this legal action is not targeting anyone other than the Saudi government - which is the Saudi Royal Family itself. The statements that Graham and Kerrey made were not concerning fringe elements within that family or government. Whether you believe those statements or not, the Saudi Royal Family (the Saudi government) is what both statements were specifically referring to.

This explanation should serve to stabilize this one very tangible aspect of this thread topic. It is very definitive and is not - therefore - open to responsible debate. Debate whether you believe the royal family was involved, or whether Graham and Kerrey are in any position to know one way or the other, but stop trying to change the premise of the thread itself. This court proceeding development is a hard news item and has been thoroughly verified as having occurred.

Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Well if that were true why isn't there an Iraq war thread about the millions of people killed?
Who is going to investigate their murders?

Oh thats right the case is already solved isn't it, America is responsible.

Note: In Australia we spell it as offence.

If this had happened to Australia you'd all still be thinking about it and trying to get to the bottom of it. Just like most of us who it did happen to still are. Seriously. What part about that don't you understand? It never touched you. You can't possibly relate to what it was like to have this thing hover over your culture, your politics, your nation's economy, and literally connected in some way to every aspect of your society's progressive development since it happened. Then, to have so many extremely obvious contradictions and magical explanations for them forced upon you by members of your own country, with such vitriol targeting you if you so much as dare admit to being skeptical of those magical explanations. I don't think that anyone can relate to having the entire identity of your home nation shift right in front of your eyes after fighting through the fear and anger of those spectacular full-color, high definition attacks happening right in front of you in real time. From a good and caring nation of normal, decent modern individuals - from your own point of view - to one that's filled with so many people who are either completely malignant or inexplicably deranged in their capacity to process obvious indications that exist in multiple media platforms.

It's been a complete nightmare in this nation since the attacks of 911, and now that craziness that was isolated to matters of national defense has infected every aspect of American society. It's as if the whole thing has mutated into a pandemic of irrationality at all levels, with our entire financial and political system hijacked by the most destructive and despicable of sideshow crazies. Hell, if I were among the rest of the world, I'd be scared sh*tless of an America that's slowly coming unhinged. If this place loses it, it'll take the rest of you with it. That should be of concern for everyone on this planet.

This thread is way off topic. The two senators have called for an investigation, this is major news but has been hussed up by the media again.

Bin ladin was a saudi as were 13 of the 19 patsys in the 911 scam. In Pakistan /afghan, Saudi money funds a lot of the islamic jihad type schools.
Should have invaded Saudi arabia instead of Iraq. More evidence against them than there was against Iraq.
The day after 911 when the hunt was on for bin ladin and every one was grounded. cept for the al CIAda planes thet flew the bin ladin family and friends back to the Saudi.
Yes fool me once lol

Originally posted by Aleister
This thread is way off topic. The two senators have called for an investigation, this is major news but has been hussed up by the media again.

Threads losing their way happens a lot around here, and pretty quickly. Yes, the fact is that this development should be bigger news than it is, but the fact that it isn't, and won't be, isn't really big news.

reply to post by NorEaster


Yet you don't care about the 10s of millions America is responsible for murdering?

How do you think other nations feel about America, they hate you, you bring nothing but chaos and destruction to the world.
No matter, America will be gone in a few years and no one will miss you.

Reply to post by The_Seeker

I'm with you. Truthers have been mocked and ridiculed because we do not believe the official story. THERE IS NO OFFICIAL STORY, not because I say so, because the US govt continues to change it. When are people going to wake up and see the "truth" is a fabricating always changing lie? I am starting to think fear is keeping people from seeing the truth. Fear that needs to be confronted not ignored. We The People have the power but We are too afraid to use it. Do you not realize when you let a bully intimidate you, you feed his lust for power? When you stand up and fight back the bully realizes you are not the doormat he thought you were. I speak from experience. Of course I got my ass beat but after that he left me alone. Stop accepting ignorance as the "norm". We have grown to accept defeat and take it up the anus and THAT is NOT what being an American is about. We fight until we overcome the oppressor and wave our flag high, letting everyone know we will NOT be tread upon. It used to be that way.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Yet you don't care about the 10s of millions America is responsible for murdering?

How do you think other nations feel about America, they hate you, you bring nothing but chaos and destruction to the world.
No matter, America will be gone in a few years and no one will miss you.

Most of us hate the crap that the International Corporate Cabal has our military doing around the world too. It doesn't matter what the majority of us think about it though. Maybe you're right and maybe we will be cratered in a few years, but if you think that means that we'll be gone, then think again. We'll just be completely unhinged, completely desperate, and possessing the most horrible destructive capacity of any fallen empire that's ever existed.

You won't be able to miss us if we collapse. If no one helps us fix this insane mess that the GOP/corporate crazies have cranked up within our government and our media, none of you will survive the fallout.

This 9/11 thing is just the tip of an incredibly dangerous iceberg that sits just off the shore of every continent on this earth.

Noreaster,
I like your well written comments, and your abililty to share your deep feelings. I have never read a summary of the collective emotions that the USA felt after 9/11. Stars for you all around and I'm going to friend you so I can monitor your other words of wisdom.
thank you,
brice