Incompetent People Too Ignorant to Know It

reply to post by Thought Provoker


You may have discovered a hidden gem in the construct. Needless to say I have run across many "off-hand" comments like that in recent reporting and I am not the kind to put it past them to favor anything that reinforces the meme... no matter how subtly it's done.

Good catch!

I have looked all over the source and this posting.

I don't see my name anywhere.

Are you sure you are looking at this subject properly??

I do think I could give you a pretty good list of some people whom we all know and love, but it might resemble our members list.

reply to post by Thought Provoker


Oh, wow how did I miss that?
Great catch!

reply to post by Thought Provoker


Well played, great catch there!! I admit, I didn't go and read the OP article. IMO news.yahoo.com should legally have to be renamed to blogs.yahoo.com, as that is what their news consists of. Even the sports people make mistakes often, and how hard is it to understand sports?

reply to post by Maxmars


That dumb people will not acknowledge their stupidity is old news ... give people an IQ test and see them with a low score and they will at once start talking about different kinds of IQ etc etc ....

Tell people they are doing something stupid, rationalize it, and they'll still insist because it is MY way ...

dumb people is dumb, they are a majority and will insist on being that way ... no news there ... that why we call it dumb ... if they would acknowledge their own shortcomings they would be wise even if they were not having the best of IQ's ..

reply to post by RSF77

Originally posted by RSF77
reply to post by Cataclysm

 

It seems odd that "perceived ability" is such a straight and defined line. I was thinking they asked the subjects how well they thought they did, if so that's some coincidence. You would figure there would be some variation.

Good point. I interpreted "perceived ability" as some innate sense of ability each examinee had and quantified BEFORE taking the test.

Originally posted by TKDRL
IMO news.yahoo.com should legally have to be renamed to blogs.yahoo.com, as that is what their news consists of.

Especially when it is not even "news".
In this case it appears one Natalie Wolchover did an interview with David Dunning, and spammed it all over the net.

Our OP took this as "news" without checking further, and placed it into the "breaking news" section of ATS.
This, despite that graph shown having previously been published back in 1999.
Yes, 1999.

This "breaking news" is 13 years old.

link

Along the same lines, people who aren't talented in a given area tend not to be able to recognize the talents or good ideas of others, from co-workers to politicians. This may impede the democratic process, which relies on citizens having the capacity to identify and support the best candidate or policy.

This part made me pause. I don't like the implication, true as it may be.

reply to post by Thought Provoker


I think you nailed it. Bravo/brava!

I think it's just another arrow to use in the "conspiracy theorists are craaaazy" quiver. If they can't prove the point wrong, then they will go after the credibility of the person making the point.

The media (among others) is trying to make us embarrassed of our oh-so-stupid thoughts. And if we aren't and still share them, they rely on the group to shame us instead. It's a way to dampen, if not shut down altogether, our critical thinking, and still the dissonance.

reply to post by TKDRL

I must admit to being entirely ignorant about sports. But I don't care that I am. Sports have several purposes:

1. Making the various owners of various teams and some of the players ridiculously wealthy by convincing us to transfer our wealth to them.
   
2. Dividing us even further along entirely-imaginary boundaries (like making Longhorns hate Aggies).
   
3. Wasting our time.
   
4. Inculcating the idea of "Win at all costs!" into people. You must crush anyone who disagrees with you; compromise is for wimps.

The more we hate each other, the easier we are to control as a society. That's why sports - the idea of how important competing and winning are, rather - are beaten into kids' heads as early as possible. And if you suck at sports, everyone makes you feel inadequate, incompetent, and idiotic (sound familiar?). Organized sports are no less a control mechanism than organized religion, and no less destructive. They further enslave us all. Just boycott 'em. Your kids will be much better off. I mean, think about it, and be honest with yourself: what do you get out of watching a football game? Really?

reply to post by Thought Provoker


Boycott sports? Nah, it's too fun, plus keeps me in good shape, and no I don't mean sitting on the couch watching

All I was saying, is that if you are supposed to be reporting *cough blogging* about a sport, you should at least take some time to understand it. Sitting around watching sports is ok once in a while for me, catch the local high school play some hockey. A lot of sports fans really do take it too seriously though, and think they are part of the team or something. You are really preaching to the quire with me, but I go further and don't watch TV at all anymore

reply to post by Maxmars


Now how many have commented as though this study is about "intelligence" rather than

Almost everyone thinks they did better than average. "For people at the bottom who are really doing badly — those in the bottom 10th or 15th percentile — they think their work falls in the 60th or 55th percentile, so, above average,"

as stated in the OP "dumb people are too dumb to know it".

We can see this same situation in a yearly employment exercise called self-evaluations. I believe it has a lot to do with the fact that no one wants to admit that they may be average or below average in anything. I have always thrown off the people doing these types of evaluations/reviews, because I will actually mark some of my work areas as average and even in some cases below average. This is in contrast to what they see on most of the other self-evaluations where everyone marks their work as above average or exceptional. Which if you look at it logically, if everyone's work is above average, then doesn't that level of work aptitude become the new average. Unfortunately a direct correlation can't really be made, because in the self-evaluation case there is money involved and people will always skew the results in an attempt to try to earn more money for themselves. I actually hope more research will be done concerning this subject. I think it would be useful to know if this is a result of an inflated self worth, perhaps a misconception of what average truly represents, some combination of both or even some factor(s) I overlooked.

Thanks to the OP for bringing this study to our attention.
Star for you!

I had to also star the SCTV video posted. Way too funny.

Its an interesting (of obvious) result.

But having a fast processor means little if you choose to waste it.
I am fairly clever, and beyond making some random posts on ATS and making some 3d stuff for the odd client, I have done nothing productive with my intellect.
A person digging ditches has done more to progress society than I have

I could comfort myself in thinking that somehow my posts here will influence people into voting a certain way, or making a decision influenced by my perceived wisdom..but I also know that is not the case. just smacking the keyboard amounting to little.

I envy the ignorant..intelligence without personal success just makes you realize quite clearly how much you fail to meet your expectation.

Look at the graph also, that gives me a bit of comfort. the highest marks had the lowest expectations of themselves..this is due not to being humble, but rather a measuring stick that has consistently not measured up to their desire.

Here is a relevant question:
Are highly intelligent people happy?

Would be interesting to see that result. I suspect genius and light depression go hand in hand (not full blown tear in the beer type, but just a general unsatisfied with life feel)

Originally posted by Dontshootthemessanger

I think it's just another arrow to use in the "conspiracy theorists are craaaazy" quiver. If they can't prove the point wrong, then they will go after the credibility of the person making the point.

The media (among others) is trying to make us embarrassed of our oh-so-stupid thoughts. And if we aren't and still share them, they rely on the group to shame us instead. It's a way to dampen, if not shut down altogether, our critical thinking, and still the dissonance.

I don't know WHAT conspiracy theory you are referring to, but for a scarily big amount of debates and theories, especially here on the forum, what the study says is 100% correct. (surprise....)

Let me give you a few quick, classic examples:

* People who are evaluating and reporting a UFO sighting, but upon closer inspection it comes out that those people have not even remotely any knowledge of all kinds of things like aircraft, meteorology, astronomy etc.

* People who are believing or making up a theory about the possibility or impossibility of how the 9/11 towers fell, but have no clue/expertise whatsoever in fields required like demolition, explosives, structural integrity etc.

* People who constantly "find" artificial structures on all kinds of planets and moons or "analyzing" UFO videos etc..having not even the slightest knowledge of photography, digital imaging, compression artifact etc.

* Etc...

This thread and the study in the OP is so incredible profound and it's nothing new, but it sadly applies to MANY, MANY of the topics here on the forum...actually it applies to ALL aspects of life. And yes you are right, and yes the study is right, many stupid people ARE indeed voting and it's a scary thing indeed.

We live in a society where stupidity is "celebrated" and encouraged in the media..haven't you noticed how the most stupid people are quite often also the ones seeking (and getting!) the most media exposure? When was the last time you watched any show on TV...just wondering?

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Maxmars

 

At least I know they aren't talking about me!

If they were talking about you, you'd be too dumb to aknowledge that they were talking about you, according to the article. Lol.
Maybe I'm stupid and just too stupid to realize how stupid I am. Lol.
Crazy.
Maybe the reason we all believe ourselves to be so much better than we actually are is because of all of the "positive self-esteem" crap that's been drilled into our heads since childhood.
At least dumb people not recognizing their dumbness doesn't really affect anyone, since we still have the ability to recognize dumbness in others, even if they don't recognize it in themselves. LMAO!

Originally posted by Maxmars

news.yahoo.com...

A growing body of psychology research shows that incompetence deprives people of the ability to recognize their own incompetence. To put it bluntly, dumb people are too dumb to know it. Similarly, unfunny people don't have a good enough sense of humor to tell.

This disconnect may be responsible for many of society's problems.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.lifeslittlemysteries.com

edit on 28-2-2012 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-2-2012 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)

Quite frankly half of these so called psychologist s are quacks and I will give you a prime example . My wife sees a therapist bi monthly and these guys have had her near zombie mode due to over medicating , we finally got her off most her meds and she is fine . Anyway she felt I have A.D.D. So I told her I would go to a psychologist to see if this was true.

The guy does a basic intake and we discuss how I don't sleep well . I tell him I have seven ruptured discs in my back and a bone disease called osteo necrosis that cost me my hips and has left my right knee broken and both Talus bones in my ankles crushed and broken. So anyways he tells me I am bi polar and manic at this point. I ask him how he came to this conclusion and he said because I don't sleep . I explain to him I don't sleep because of the pain of my broken body and ask him why else he felt I was bi polar.


At this point he could offer me no further reason as to why I was bi polar but handed me a list of mood stabilizers , I asked him if they helped A.D.D. And he replied no but they will make you feel better more even keeled. At this point I call him a quack who was just trying to drug me up for a return customer and left.

I offered my wife to try another psychologist and we did , this one felt I did not have either A.D.D. Or bi polar disease but wanted me to go on mood stabilizers again I said wow and nicely left.

My point being I trust nothing that comes out of the mouths of these so called professionals on the human mind or believe in their studies and conclusions to these studies . It is of my opinion they are part of a vast conspiracy with the government and drug companies to placate society thru medication keeping us numb to the evils they commit against us . Their studies are conducted towards this end placing a label on any individual and a drug to go with it.

Originally posted by pilot70
reply to post by Maxmars

 

give people an IQ test and see them with a low score and they will at once start talking about different kinds of IQ etc etc ....

I'm not arguing the fact that dumb people are too dumb to know they're dumb - but there are different kinds of intelligence, and 'Intelligence Quotient' does not consider all aspects of intelligence. There are spectacularly intelligent people who don't test well.

reply to post by flexy123


Those are some mighty fine examples, and tbh, ones I haven't encountered personally. I've seen similar though. I understand and agree with what you're saying, but just because somebody isn't an expert on something shouldn't discount their opinion 100%; will I take it as seriously as somebody with extensive schooling in whatever area we're discussing? Probably not. Then again, experts might have a bias or an agenda, I don't know that either. You gotta take it all with a grain of salt.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we're being molded by the fear of being different (or "too" different, whatever) to not explore unpopular avenues of thought. Maybe they're wrong, maybe they're right; who knows?! because I feel as if we're being discouraged from going there.

In the article, the author implied that anybody who didn't believe in man-made climate change was ignorant. I personally don't really have an opinion on that subject myself, but why put that in there? Climate change DOES have controversy surrounding it; why didn't they use an undisputed fact, like how apparently there are high school kids out there that think Alaska is an island?

And to answer your final questions: That is a wonderful point, the fame-whores. A lot of them do seem to be lacking in the intelligence department, (but who am I to talk, my screen name is misspelled!). I don't watch much TV besides documentaries and kids stuff, but I do play around the internet, and you just can't escape some of them. Like the Kardashian woman; I've never seen that show but dammit, I knew when she got married?!

Originally posted by Thought Provoker
reply to post by TKDRL

 

I must admit to being entirely ignorant about sports. But I don't care that I am. Sports have several purposes:

1. Making the various owners of various teams and some of the players ridiculously wealthy by convincing us to transfer our wealth to them.
   
2. Dividing us even further along entirely-imaginary boundaries (like making Longhorns hate Aggies).
   
3. Wasting our time.
   
4. Inculcating the idea of "Win at all costs!" into people. You must crush anyone who disagrees with you; compromise is for wimps.

The more we hate each other, the easier we are to control as a society. That's why sports - the idea of how important competing and winning are, rather - are beaten into kids' heads as early as possible. And if you suck at sports, everyone makes you feel inadequate, incompetent, and idiotic (sound familiar?). Organized sports are no less a control mechanism than organized religion, and no less destructive. They further enslave us all. Just boycott 'em. Your kids will be much better off. I mean, think about it, and be honest with yourself: what do you get out of watching a football game? Really?

edit on 2/28/2012 by Thought Provoker because: Me?? A misspelling?? I'm only having half a pot of coffee tomorrow.

I agree with all of that. Sports are supposed to be about doing and exersice-- not winning or watching. The watching part comes from the lack or anything to do in an 19th century city. Wage slavery. If people did sports correctly they would gain a little empirical insight into classical mechanics, anatomy and physiology, psychology and sociology etc.

I had forgotten how everything in the media interelates to a subtext of heirarchy and control through memes.

Ineresting that although the subjects guessed wrong on the absolute value of thier scores they were correct about their position in a list ranking of their score.

Here's a politician that fits the bill.