Muslims: I'm becoming very tired of your violence

Originally posted by Sparky63
The only difference is that in the case of Muslims who strap on suicide vests or use car bombs to kill innocent people, there is usually an Imam somewhere who told them Allah will consider him a hero and he will have untold blessings in paradise.

Funnily enough, if a Muslim dies, he has to wait till the end of time to go to Islamic heaven.

On the other hand, if a Muslim dies in jihad, he goes straight there, according to the Koran.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by nenothtu

 

But surely that works with all religions? In the same way that a form of Islam often affects lives around the world by becoming politicised, so too does Christianity. For example, you can't become President of the US without being a Christian (it certainly appears that way to the rest of the world). Look at Bush and his "god told me to invade Iraq" quote!

Bush is also widely viewed as a moron, both here and abroad, so that bone-headed comment should not have come as a surprise to any one.

If a god can't fight his own battles, and has to have mere mortals fight them for him, who is more powerful? In that case, who should be worshiping whom? Honestly, if anyone has a god, isn't the "fighting for" supposed to work the other way around?

I mean, if I'm about to get into a fight, I don't call my baby sister and say "handle this for me - I'm too scared to".

Nossir, I defend HER, not the other way around, because I'm capable of packing the greater punch.

Originally posted by nenothtu
In other words, I don't care who, what, or how they kill at home, but if they leave home and come to kill me or mine (and then have the temerity to actually come out and say "if you join us and follow our religion, we won't kill you any more"!), I want to drop the hammer on them, repeatedly, with gusto, and feeling, until there are none left to drop the hammer onto, and I want it done wherever they try to hide.

Only when that is done will they learn not to come over and pick fights.

Yeah. I advocated that earlier on in this thread too, when I was angry. I've done it to people before as well, like I said.

The only problem with it is, that there are rich people in the world who take advantage of people like us, when we feel that way. A lot of those rich people are Americans, and they deliberately engineer situations which are not what they seem, so that when people like us become justifiably angry because we think we've been attacked, they can profit from it.

If you want to go to Afghanistan and bring the hammer down like you say, they want you to do that, because Afghanistan has natural gas, and other things which they can dig out of the ground, and make money from. Afghanistan also has a big opium trade. Heroine sells for a lot of money.

My point is that, while I will get just as angry as you, with the Muslims when I think that they're doing the wrong thing, probably around half the time (although note that I'm not saying all the time, which is why I started this thread) what we think is their fault, really isn't. It's things done by evil rich people and politicians in America, who take advantage of the fact that some Muslims are often inclined to do the wrong thing anyway, for their own purposes.

This is what I meant when I said that Islam is its' own worst enemy. Because there are times when Muslims genuinely are violent without American involvement, it becomes very easy for someone like George W. Bush, to pay for something like 9/11, and then claim that it was entirely a group of Muslims' fault, and have people believe him. We expect Muslims to do things like that, because they often really do.

I will blame Muslims when they do something they shouldn't. But I don't want to blame them for something that they haven't done. I don't believe 9/11 in particular was their fault.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by petrus4
I've seen news reports of at least four difference incidents of Islamic violence over the last 24 hours. Not only connected to the burning of the Qu'ran in Afghanistan, but also a car bomb attack in Yemen.

Are we seriously supposed to believe your continued claims, that these people are only the minority, when the violence is apparently so endemic to Islamic communities?

I think the question also needs to be asked at this point; do you really believe in your ownership of this entire planet? Is literally the entire human race supposed to be held subject to your law?

I am disturbed about how I am starting to feel towards Islam recently, as a result of this. I've tried to keep in mind, that dislike of Islam is something which the American government wants to promote, in order to justify its' wars; but the behaviour of Muslims themselves at the moment, really isn't helping.

I'm trying not to, but it is honestly difficult to avoid wishing that Islam simply did not exist, to be honest. I can't help but feel as though the world would be much more peaceful, and a much better place in general, without it.

You don't have to believe they are the minority, that's up to you, why would we regular muslims be on the news?

"breaking news: Muhammad Abdullah goes to Wal-Mart for birthday cake!!"

And no, the whole ownership of the planet thing, naaa... you know, interpretations vary..

ETA: and why do we all have to lay claim to the violence? As I recall, if every muslim killed one person a day it would take like 3 days to kill everybody... I don't want ownership of said violence.

Also, I think that the people who are out doing stuff, aren't gonna be on here to read this thread anytime soon... Soooo it's seeming to me like the point of your thread was to make a platform for people to come bash Islam, and other religions as well.

edit on 26-2-2012 by My.mind.is.mine because: (no reason given)

I couldn't agree more!

reply to post by 3nlightened


That post, sir, was masterful!

You did forget to mention, however, about how you absolutely cannot teach them how to fight, because they think they already know everything about how it is done, because that's all they have done for the last 3000 years or so, even long before Islam hit that scene. They will get their asses kicked in engagement after engagement, and STILL think they have nothing to learn about it.

Gotta give them props for being tenacious and hard headed, though - hard headed enough to continually beat their heads against the same wall, and think they aren't bruising themselves.

For this reason, all the attempts at training the ANP and Afghan military are doomed to ultimate failure. We will leave, they will revert back to form, and 3000 years from now, they will be doing the same thing in the same way, and wondering why it isn't working against their new best enemy.

Why dont all me and my white neighbours and white friends, get together get weapons and bombs and kill those who kill my own race. Oh wait if i defended my own race against these guys, i would be a racist. Im getting sick of the hypocracy of it all, history has proven theres only so long you can piss me and my white brothers off because when we get started we start mass revolutions mass crucades and mass genocides. My comment to any member of these extremists groups would be this, "SIT THE F..K DOWN BEFORE I SIT YOU DOWN SUNSHINE". Right now im trying to pay off debts and live my life im getting sick off all this crap, were being effed by corporate business and we dont run around blowing banks up because civillized people dont do that. Sit down and start fixing your country instead of blowing shiat up ffs, i mean if you started rebuilding now, maybe in a century you could invade america because of some "terrorism" shiat, until then SIT THE FUDGE DOWN.btw if muslims had a problem they wouldnt attack, a soldier because a soldier does not decide a war, you would not attack the wtc because that is a place of business and civillians work there. If you actually had a just cause you would attack the "head", you would attack the governement.

The only lasting solution is to take power away from the Imams. This can only be done by adopting (forcing) a secular government. Once they lose their power and the average Muslim stops fearing them they can get along with the business of living peaceful lives. If you want to kill a snake you have to cut off it's head.

This is a perfect example why Imams need to be neutralized. Earth belongs to Muslims

They are fanning the flames of hatred.

I see that FlyersFan has a thread dedicated to this link.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by petrus4


The real question is would all this violence happen if the CIA wasn't involved? Saddam's overthrowing was what set off this stampede of violence. Prior to his fall suicide attacks were virtually unheard of, they were still there but not as much.

Prior to 2001 the rate was 61 per year, worldwide. After the US invaded Iraq these guys knew there was no way to fight them head on so they this became their trademark.

In 2005 the suicide bomber rate jumped to 460 per hear in 2005.

You can't tell me all the violence is linked to Islam, that is bullcrap. The west also has their hands in the cookie jar. If they didn't meddle with Iraq the suicide bomber rate wouldn't have been an issue. If they stayed out of Afghanistan the suicide bomber rate would have been minimal.

If you want the Muslim nations to act civilized how about we invite them into the 21st century? Rather then blow them back to the dark ages whenever we get scared.

oh the op is sooo sooo very tired of bad people - bad bad naughty people. Get real dude I am tired of useless whining.

You want to nut up go start something real or get off the box.

I've been to some of there crappy Muslim countries and they suck. but they have every right to say get off our playground or get your ass whooped nonetheless.

And seeing how limp dick Bush even couldn't even bring shock and awe into reality there is no real chance for us to out bully them on there own property much less anywhere else. That's reality. Turn there country into glass or leave them alone. They don't have anything to live for and every reason to die.

Originally posted by nenothtu
Wahabbism isn't the only problem in Islam.

To be fair though, it is a very good place to start looking.

The following summary derived from this link is of interest

old.nationalreview.com...

• Wahhabism is official in Saudi Arabia.

• It is influential in Qatar, Kuwait, and the United Arab Emirates.

• It has a substantial following in Yemen.

• Hamas in Israel represents pure Wahhabism.

• Forms of neo-Wahhabi or Wahhabized ideology have been powerful in Egypt (the Muslim Brotherhood) and in Pakistan — in both countries neo-Wahhabis lead attacks on other Muslims and other faiths.

• Wahhabi infiltration continues in Chechnya.

• Wahhabi extremism and terrorism continue to plague Nigeria, Uzbekistan, Indonesia, and the Philippines, although its real supporters in these countries are few in number.

• Wahhabi infiltration is a serious problem in East Africa.

• In the Western European immigrant Muslim communities, Wahhabism has a presence in France but has been weakened by the atrocities in Algeria.

• Britain has a loud Wahhabi, neo-Wahhabi, and Wahhabi-wannabe element but little real support for it among local Muslims.

It does seem to hit the nail on the head in respect of Pakistan & Egypt. Muslims in those countries do show very hard line attitudes both in polls and on the ground in respect of attacking/persecuting Christians.

The article's assertion that little real support for Wahhabi exists in Britain however is rather at odds with the research of MI5 which estimates that up to 4,000 UK Muslims have been trained by the Taliban.

MI5 has estimated that up to 4,000 British Muslims had travelled to Pakistan and, before the fall of the Taliban, to Afghanistan for military training.

www.independent.co.uk...

On the other hand, the UK does have a very large Pakistani Muslim population, so if they had Wahhabi leanings then that wouldn't be of any real surpise.

What is fair to say is that most Muslims are no more fans of Islamic extrmists than you or I are. Nonetheless, some countries with large Wahhabi representation, do appear to be much more prone to produce Islamic terrorists.

You funny little people arguing about religion. Religion has brought nothing but violence to this world. It's that insane blind faith that has driven people to start wars just because one people don't believe as they do. And here you all are doing the same thing as them and bickering back and forth about how much more violent Muslims or Christians are over the other. Get over yourselves and your religion. If you believe in it too much, you'll become as radical as they're all made out to be.

Now let the snarky, self-absorbed rebuttals begin.

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
You funny little people arguing about religion. Religion has brought nothing but violence to this world. It's that insane blind faith that has driven people to start wars just because one people don't believe as they do. And here you all are doing the same thing as them and bickering back and forth about how much more violent Muslims or Christians are over the other. Get over yourselves and your religion. If you believe in it too much, you'll become as radical as they're all made out to be.

Now let the snarky, self-absorbed rebuttals begin.

You seem to know a little about being "snarky" & self absorbed", and I might add "condescending" to your fellow ATS'ers. Physician heal thyself. I'm just sayin......

Although I have to agree with the fact that religion is the cause of much of the violence.

reply to post by 3nlightened


Thank you very much for your view dude
But I'm sorry I can't compleatly agree with you ( 4 tours )
But for explaining to those that never have never will and plainly don't have a F**kin clue in a single post
You said it very well

However to be a pain in your ass - how come you have net ???
Get outside the wire camp rat lol
Or your between ops getting some rest
Or your using the sort of kit we don't talk about
Peace bro have a good tour and stay in one piece

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
You funny little people arguing about religion. Religion has brought nothing but violence to this world. It's that insane blind faith that has driven people to start wars just because one people don't believe as they do. And here you all are doing the same thing as them and bickering back and forth about how much more violent Muslims or Christians are over the other. Get over yourselves and your religion. If you believe in it too much, you'll become as radical as they're all made out to be.

Unfortunately, I would have to disagree with you.

Religion, like a gun or hammer, is NEVER the problem.

The hammer helps a worksman in his craft, earn his living. By itself, it hurts no one. A gun is but a tool, meant to protect and defend a human from harm by others.

Religion is but a path to civilisation, with moral guidelines on how we mankind can exists within societies and co-exist with each other, if not in harmony due to the different forms of worship of our same Creator across time and space, at least in peace, for progress and evolution, even for atheists whom wonders where such 'guidelines' which accounts for their peaceful existance in civilised states came from.

It is only MAN, that is the problem. We are flawed humans, prone to errors, compounded when one seeks for exclusivity, lust for all forms of power. Like the hammer or the gun in wrong hands, religion in the self centred or mad results in dire consequences for mankind.

Anything that can give power to one to set one above other fellow humans is power. And with that comes a responsibility to others, that sadly, not many of those in power had used wisely for others, but only for themselves, their own immediate kin and cronies....

Thus, there is a need for accountability when one attempts to use religion as a power to rule. No man can be trusted to rule alone, as a 'supreme leader', dictator, tyrant, etc. With divine help and insipirations, thus you see the 'arab' and worldwide 'springs' happening around the world today....

Look no further or blame upon muslims, or christians, or hindus, or buddhists, or atheists, etc. But look upon their leaders in society, be it social, economic, or religion, for accountability. They were given the power or stolen that power, and will have to be held accountable by all mankind for the chaos and mayhem caused.

reply to post by Sparky63


Nah, I wasn't trying to be snarky or self-absorbed. People often misunderstand my tone and what I'm saying. Most likely that I don't convey my thoughts in words properly. All I was trying to say is that it's funny how people are getting so upset over stuff that has not changed. Ever. People just need to take a step back and quit being so irrational.

[insert clever quote here]


reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


It's hard to have accountability with something that is pretty much lead by irrationality these days.

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
reply to post by Sparky63

 

Nah, I wasn't trying to be snarky or self-absorbed. People often misunderstand my tone and what I'm saying. Most likely that I don't convey my thoughts in words properly. All I was trying to say is that it's funny how people are getting so upset over stuff that has not changed. Ever. People just need to take a step back and quit being so irrational.

Ok, here is the best clever comment I can come up with on short notice:

[Not trying but succeeded anyway. Congratulations and welcome to the club.]

To be fair, one man's incredibly insightful and intelligent comment is another man's snarky and self absorbed post. To be honest, none of us would be posting here if we were not a little self absorbed, I am guilty as charged.

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot

It's hard to have accountability with something that is pretty much lead by irrationality these days.

Never fear. This here is ATS.

While there may be disinformation specialists, theorists, etc, there willl be many more whom are dedicated to the search for truth and reality. Facts will be self evident, no matter how many half truths and lies can be mixed and sugar coated by media or anyone.

Good luck!

A lot of opinion here on ATS is surprisingly very much guided by mainstream propaganda. Very interesting.

reply to post by purplemer



I see what you are saying however you fail to mention the liberated peoples that benefited, Kuwait for instance, but hey lets only portray the one side of the argument that suits

Also to say that everyone was in mourning for 'their beloved leader' is stretching it a bit far

Originally posted by petrus4
I've seen news reports of at least four difference incidents of Islamic violence over the last 24 hours. Not only connected to the burning of the Qu'ran in Afghanistan, but also a car bomb attack in Yemen.

Are we seriously supposed to believe your continued claims, that these people are only the minority, when the violence is apparently so endemic to Islamic communities?

I think the question also needs to be asked at this point; do you really believe in your ownership of this entire planet? Is literally the entire human race supposed to be held subject to your law?

I am disturbed about how I am starting to feel towards Islam recently, as a result of this. I've tried to keep in mind, that dislike of Islam is something which the American government wants to promote, in order to justify its' wars; but the behaviour of Muslims themselves at the moment, really isn't helping.

I'm trying not to, but it is honestly difficult to avoid wishing that Islam simply did not exist, to be honest. I can't help but feel as though the world would be much more peaceful, and a much better place in general, without it.

Ah. Here we have a thread made on ATS, dedicated to lumping a group of people together because of the actions of a few, spewing hatred and ignorance.

Would you be appalled if I made a thread stating "Christians: I'm becoming very tired of your pedophilia"?

Par for the course on ATS, home of the fringe lunatic right wing, who hate, hate, hate everything that does not look like them. You would think that a moderator would clean this stuff up, to promote educated, civil discussion that "denies ignorance" and stomps out counterproductive hate speech? No. But don't you dare cuss at someone on here, or else!