Muslims: I'm becoming very tired of your violence

reply to post by 3nlightened


Oh lordy... so to start of with, I am not a Muslim, nor am I living in a Muslim country.

So please, if you're going to even attempt to discuss things with me, do try to stay focused and un-emotional because you're coming off as an oaf.

You have admitted, and yes I know it might be difficult to remember something which happened only a few minutes ago because you're so erect at the thought of arguing with a poor ickle Muslim, that we the West are only interested in resources and that the Afghan people are too dumb to realise. You even go so far as to suggest that their lack of education means they should be treated as lesser human beings.

I don't think I need to say any more, do I?

T

Originally posted by jamsession
reply to post by 3nlightened

 

dude. i was born, raised and still live in a country where you hit a mosque every 500 meters. i live in turkey and i assure you, the society and form of islam you are talking about right now is the most extreme style mixed up with the lack of education and insight. read my former post above and you'll understand the basics. the western world wants you yo believe that islam is evil in nature, in fact, it is not more evil than judaism or christianity. you cannot find one single line in koran about stoning women. but it originates from talmud. same goes for headscarves, although it is written in koran, the original source is talmud.

the elite want islam to be identified with terrorist attacks and 9/11 was intended for and staged as the biggest propaganda.

reply to post by alienorgy

 

insert any non-muslim in there, used as an idiom for the western elite regardless if they're white, blue or green in color.

edit on 27-2-2012 by jamsession because: (no reason given)

Used in a racist way. You act is if there are no Non white elites. Nice way to buy into the indoctrination. And coming from Turkey? Dude, u got balls >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----< this big. The sh*t your people have done to others?

You act as if there is one boogie man in all of this. Sorry, you are wrong.

Welcome.

If anyone on here has any doubt that the US and the Brits are in there fro anything other than region control, oil and any other steal able asset then I'm afraid you are working under an illusion.

Just DON'T blame the troops...

Many of the people in the countries we go in to appear for the media to be pleased to see us and some of them will be but a great deal of others wish we would leave asap because they know that in the end they will be sold or given back to the same sort of people they wanted to escape from and they will be brought to point for allowing the West in or giving support.

You want a more peaceful world, throw religion in the bin...

Originally posted by petrus4
I've seen news reports of at least four difference incidents of Islamic violence over the last 24 hours. Not only connected to the burning of the Qu'ran in Afghanistan, but also a car bomb attack in Yemen.

Are we seriously supposed to believe your continued claims, that these people are only the minority, when the violence is apparently so endemic to Islamic communities?

I think the question also needs to be asked at this point; do you really believe in your ownership of this entire planet? Is literally the entire human race supposed to be held subject to your law?

I am disturbed about how I am starting to feel towards Islam recently, as a result of this. I've tried to keep in mind, that dislike of Islam is something which the American government wants to promote, in order to justify its' wars; but the behaviour of Muslims themselves at the moment, really isn't helping.

I'm trying not to, but it is honestly difficult to avoid wishing that Islam simply did not exist, to be honest. I can't help but feel as though the world would be much more peaceful, and a much better place in general, without it.

O hai der! I see that you did dilligent research on this subject. Four reports of violence most certainly would constitute the majority of the Islam faith. Unless of course... O yes there are over 1.5 billion people in the world associated with Islam.

Now that I have gotten that out of the way. Please lets not forget that violence is not exclusive to Islam. I will pick the dominate religion in my area for example, Christianity. Oh the humanity... Or should I say the lack thereof. I wont even cite the violence dominant in the old testament writings. Christianity lays claim to the Salem Witch Trials, the Inquisition, the assimilation of the "heathen" Native Americans, oh and The Crusades. Not to mention the individuals that were standing up for their Christian faith, you know like the abortion clinic bombings.

I picked on Christianity because it is dominate in my area. Lets face it though, every religion that I can think of has perpetuated violence upon others. Now this is not necessarily the fault of the holy texts themselves, though plenty of them speak of anger and violence, no these disgusting bouts of violence rest solely with the perpetrators. There are peaceful people all over the world, in every faith, yet there is always "that guy" that wants to be rewarded in the afterlife.

Now is it really a fault of any or all of the religions? I don't know, but if we look at our close relative the bonobo, I'm gonna guess that some of us are just prone to violence and the desire for domination. Bonobos, as with many other animals, will just beat the hell out of each other. So next time you are angry at Islam, Christianity, or the Pastafarians for some douchebags anger management issue think of this question "does this wanker represent all of his/her society?"

Originally posted by Mclaneinc
If anyone on here has any doubt that the US and the Brits are in there fro anything other than region control, oil and any other steal able asset then I'm afraid you are working under an illusion.

Just DON'T blame the troops...

Many of the people in the countries we go in to appear for the media to be pleased to see us and some of them will be but a great deal of others wish we would leave asap because they know that in the end they will be sold or given back to the same sort of people they wanted to escape from and they will be brought to point for allowing the West in or giving support.

You want a more peaceful world, throw religion in the bin...

Dear Mclaneinc,

Star and *tips his hat* to that post.

T

reply to post by ohaiderats


Well said mate. Some of these responses are quite incredible really. I may start a new thread, Jews: I'm becoming very tired of your hats. Or Veggies: I'm becoming very tired with your lack of meat. Any takers?

hokay. seems like i'm wasting my precious time by keeping up with this debate to the point of being accused with racism while in fact the point of this thread is the biggest bias in nature but still, i'll keep on defending the right of the majority of people that surround me right now where i live.

nobody seems to care but just in case someone would take their time to read, it all boils down to oil. the western world has created a beast which has turned back at it and has become a huge threat as per usual. i forgot to add the green belt project developed by the US gov. as of the 50's with the purpose to fight communism back then. they managed to finish off soviet communism down to the point of supporting the afghan mujahideen (the roots of today's taliban) during the russian invasion in the 80's. now they're using fethullah gulen, a turkish cleric seated in pa, usa whom was given a letter of recommendation by the former CIA middle east chief graham fuller for residence permit. fethullah gulen and the current ruling party in tr, the JDP were orchestrated to make a collab. since the gulen movement is a pro west, moderate islamic fraternity. guess why? to suppress islamic extremism in the middle east within the scope of the greater middle east project, as the monster the western world used to feed back in those times has gotten out of hand that is.

reply to post by 3nlightened

good one, 3nlighten, now consider this.
Mohammed returned to Medina around 700 and slaughtered 700 Jewish males, raped the females, etc.
then he rewrote the Torah, calling it the Koran. Followed the principles to a T, but amped it up a bit.
Ever since, the followers of the Torah and Talmud especially have been using infiltration of Muslim leadership by international banksters and attacks by deception to run Islamists off a cliff. The most successful covert operation in world history.
in your neck of the woods, i will bet you find Mossad agents directing the Muslim hate fest that is responding to the manufactured Koran burning..
Right now.
Just a guess, of course.

Originally posted by jamsession
hokay. seems like i'm wasting my precious time by keeping up with this debate to the point of being accused with racism while in fact the point of this thread is the biggest bias in nature but still, i'll keep on defending the right of the majority of people that surround me right now where i live.

nobody seems to care but just in case someone would take their time to read, it all boils down to oil. the western world has created a beast which has turned back at it and has become a huge threat as per usual. i forgot to add the green belt project developed by the US gov. as of the 50's with the purpose to fight communism back then. they managed to finish off soviet communism down to the point of supporting the afghan mujahideen (the roots of today's taliban) during the russian invasion in the 80's. now they're using fethullah gulen, a turkish cleric seated in pa, usa whom was given a letter of recommendation by the former CIA middle east chief graham fuller for residence permit. fethullah gulen and the current ruling party in tr, the JDP were orchestrated to make a collab. since the gulen movement is a pro west, moderate islamic fraternity. guess why? to suppress islamic extremism in the middle east within the scope of the greater middle east project, as the monster the western world used to feed back in those times has gotten out of hand that is.

LOL You're joking right? You blame "White People" for your problems and then say you are not racist and say it was just meant as a figure of speech?

yes, you should go.

Originally posted by Ghost375
I'm pretty sure that Christians have killed more people than Muslims have, in Afghanistan, Iraq, or even over all of recorded time.

If Islam is so peaceful, how do you explain Muslims invading and occuping Southern Europe for hundreds of years?

Later Muslim Conquests of Christian Land


Early Muslim Conquests


Don't get me wrong. The vast majority of Muslims just want a quiet life.

To pretend that Islam is less violent than Christianity, either historically or in the present day and age however is a crude attempt to deflect attention away from the historical imperialist nature of Islam.

reply to post by jamsession


Thanks for so succinctly clearing that up.......well all sleep better.......

The culture of America was born on the back of the theft and genocide of native lands and peoples.
Slavery and deliberate genocide being the basis of the capitalist system of control......(they are all systems of control)
The freedom of America granted by God,rests on the concept of an armed populace resisting the overarching force of federalist power.
This is hardly a peaceful cultural meme.....
Let us agree, that all these cultural organisations no matter wether they are religious, or commercial, or political,
will always similarly seek control of the people they are designed to serve.
The world has turned fully upside down........The psychopaths are running the asylum.
It breaks down to the individual,the human mind....the battle is fully and furiously enjoined.......
It is ages old and will go on till we overcome our fear, and conquer our loneliness,then we can finally come together.......in peace.......
Islam. orthodox Judaism,Christian extremism,they are symptoms of our own inadequacies as beings....
Communism,Capitalism,liberalism,Anarchy, All governing systems are the result of our own irrationality.
The truth IS known in every heart.

How we manage to live in denial of that truth is the definition of our societies.....

Is not the entire world weary of the violence of extremists of every stripe?
The time has come for sanity to reign over the cacphony of madness that these psychotic personalities
continually feed.
We are far too stunted spiritually, and far too indoctrinated religiously........

reply to post by xxdaniel21


No question there are fundamentalist Christians who are fanatics, bigots, and just friken weird. The "guns and God people"are both disgusting and creepy. But there is a big difference with them in that TPTB take notice when THEY blow people or things up, or try to. Remember Timothy McVey, or David Koresh? Both were terrorists pure and simple.

With Koresh he should have been taken out when in town as he was under surveillance, rather then let him get back to the compound. I think the tragedy at the compound was the reason the traitor McVey used to commit mass murder in Oklahoma City. Human shields, children in particular, are not just used by those who bastardize Islam.

All that said, be it because Islam is 600 years younger then it's nearest monotheistic rival Christianity and hence still needs to "grow up" (don't believe me just look at what was happening in Europe in Christ's name 600 years ago. Ghastly...)

Facts are you are much more likely to have some idiot led-by -the nose nut job blow something or someone up in the name of Islam then any other religion. And stop blaming the west and in particular the USA for all your problems. Living under a despotic, fanciest system is not the fault of the west. As for those who use the excuse of any religion to commit atrocities, get a life and while your at it, try to grow the hell up, please.

Personally I would have worded the title, PTB, and self appointed mismanagers of our planets, including all the religious leaders, black ops and cia, I am so very tired of your violence and holding the world hostage, corrupting modern middle eastern nations and imposing NAZI approved Sharia, and conducting horrendous torture against citizens who should be free, equal and informed.

Everyone else is a friend, and for those who are bent out of shape from countless injustices to their family, I am so sorry, we're all held hostage and its a terrible situation for this planets citizens to be in, and its not fair what has happened, the death of children, the most precious gifts we have, in every nation and the games the corrupt leaders play is horrendous.

reply to post by alienorgy


wow you got the nerve to call me a racist while it is you who is the racist one see? seems posting in these forums without mentioning one's origin is a requisite as one could face an argumentum ad hominem any single minute. my people are not more or less guilty than yours or anyone elses. knowing this requires information on recent history, though you seem to be blissful in that area.

anyway on topic, muslims are not violent but the system which engineered a certain part of the muslim world throughout the history is.

Originally posted by jamsession
reply to post by alienorgy

 

wow you got the nerve to call me a racist while it is you who is the racist one see? seems posting in these forums without mentioning one's origin is a requisite as one could face an argumentum ad hominem any single minute. my people are not more or less guilty than yours or anyone elses. knowing this requires information on recent history, though you seem to be blissful in that area.

anyway on topic, muslims are not violent but the system which engineered a certain part of the muslim world throughout the history is.

Nice try on the spin but no ticket.

Wanna try again?

Originally posted by 3nlightened
Nice you live in Turkey?

How does it feel to be neighbors with terrorists in the winter? When it is too cold for them to kill US soldiers.

How does it feel to know your country realized it sucked, and started blowing Israel again to save face.

Im glad Turkey has evolved out of the stone age, why dont you go help your Muslim brothers in another country, show them the love and preach the peace of Allah.... oh wait... they would kill you too.... you dont submit to the 7th pillar... you are not a real Muslim..... oh they consider you on the same religious level as Scientology and Kaballah..... How many times do you pray a day... prob not 7... cuz they do over here..... you are a sad excuse brother.... you are not spreading the word of Allah successfully...... or Abdul the terrorist is hiding in your mosque... oh your people arent leaving it because he is a brother of Islam and deserves the sanctuary rights that come along with it.... Oh # the US is horrible for taking out that terrorist who killed hundreds of people.... oh no, we killed 40 people who were protecting him in the mosque

In the US it is a crime to protect a criminal from the law. We hold you to the same standards we hold ourselves. Ask the hundreds of soldiers who are in jail for killing innocents. They killed the innocents who stepped in front of the guy that threw the grenade.

Not so innocent to me

Dear 3nlightened,

Reading your posts, it seems you have a deep mistrust and even hatred for Islam. You believed that it is justified, by the amount of chaos and mayhem you had seen around the world.

But it is my fervant hope that you rise above your emotions and seek for the truth.

To go on the road you had embarked upon, is the path to doom and destruction of mankind. This is what some of the more cunning old bas*ard leaders want - we brothers of the human race fighting against one another, while they go off scot free.

It is time to change the script, to do what they do not expect of us. And that's to find the truth.

Ask yourselves, are truly the masses to be blamed, or their leaders?

By blaming each other, ultimately, ego and pride will demand satisfaction, and the next thing you know, guns will be pulled out all over pointing at each other, while the culprits go laughing away.

Search for the truth. You had discovered part of it. You served in Afghanistan. You know how backward they are. Were they born this way? Do they bleed flourescent blood? Do they live forever? No. They are only human, and aspire for the same you and I seek. It is their leaders, whom had lied to them , failed them and kept them ignorant.

One man can do nothing to change that nation. But when combined with many others, change will come. But it will have to begin with you and me. Pissing them off will not lead to change. Be patient. It won't happen over night.

America has its own resources and needs nothing from any other nation. Many soldiers served because they believed in a cause to end terrorism, and not invasion, while some other elites hoped to gain financially from such sacrifices.If that moron Bush had sent 100,000 true islamic teachers to Afghanistan instead of 100,000 soldiers, we would have won the war against terrorism long ago.

Violence, hatred and bullets CANNOT kill radical idealogies. Only a better, true and more honest ideolgy can kill it. It only needs to reach out to more audiences, to allow them their free will to choose. No one, none of our fellow human brothers and sisters of any religion, ethnicity, social strata, be left behind.

It's time to change the script....

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Dear 3nlightened,
...

Starred. This is the sort of attitude I should have taken all along. It is very difficult for me emotionally, sometimes. Nusnus however did not give up on me, for which I am grateful.

I do want the American military to get out of the Middle East. I don't have any problem at all with Muslims having their own countries; I just want the non-Islamic world to also be able to have ours. I also truthfully do not understand why the American government implies that Israel is the only country in the region that matters.

The Americans do not belong in the Middle East, and they should leave. Arabia and Persia belong to Islam; I acknowledge that. At the same time, however, Muslim immigrants should not be invading Europe; they do not belong there either. Norway and some of the other countries belong to Lord Odin and the Aesir. The Christians murdered the early worshippers of the Aesir when they first went to Scandinavia, and outlawed the berserkergang so they could not fight back. That was wrong.

People need to stay in their own countries. If that was to happen, I think we would have a lot more peace.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


whoah kudos. star! your posts are like a barrel of fresh water amidst the desert.

alas, quite on the contrary, the western elite does not want terrorism to take an end as long as they continue to use it as a means to control the masses with fear (see: bush after 9/11) and also as an excuse to prey upon the resources of the middle east (see: iraq, afghanistan, libya).

reply to post by jamsession


The history of the world is that the strong feed on the weak. Thus strong nations subject the weak under the heel and do what they want with their resources. I think it is foolhardy to think that this will ever change. So called, "enlightened people" in every generation can see through the nationalistic propaganda but are unable to change anything.
Eventually the tide will change and once again history will repeat itself but new Superpowers will be in place exerting their will. Such is the world we live in.
In this regard history will always repeat itself. IMHO

Originally posted by torqpoc

Dear Nenothtu,
Then here is where we differ in opinion. I feel the US has done exactly that. They invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya (albeit undercover), will do the same in Iran and Syria more than likely.

We only partially disagree. I was all for the invasion of Afghanistan, although I think they performed it poorly by sending in masses of conventional troops to an essentially unconventional war. The initial engagements, with only Special Operators on the ground, went off without a hitch. The problems arose when they flooded in the conventional forces, snatching a defeat from the jaws of a victory.

In the matter of Iraq, Libya, and now potentially Syria, I'm dead set against any intervention at all, and always have been. Those aren't our fights.

They dictated to people how they should follow their religion, live their lives and attempted to "indoctrinate" the populace in exactly the same way as the missionaries did way way back in our history. It's the same principle, and the invaded have a right to defend themselves, as they are doing.

The only interference in how religion is observed was to mandate that if one's religious observation includes killing Americans, then Americans will kill them right back. Otherwise, religion is a hands-off matter. Of course there was some degree of interference in day to day life, with roadblocks and whatnot, which are unavoidable as long as there are those hell bent on destruction. In the matter if indoctrination, i can't disagree - it happens. That's what happens when one goes to "nation building", which is a ridiculous thing for a military to be forced into. Militaries are for nation destroying, not nation building. They are for "killing folks and tearing stuff up", not promoting political aspirations - especially forcing alien political systems on unwilling participants who are not temperamentally suited to the system in question.

I have always maintained that spreading ideology of any stripe at the point of a sword is a serious miscalculation.

So you see, we are not entirely at odds, only partially.

It's not a complicated situation for me to understand. Quite simple.. don't get involved in other country's issues and you won't get this kind of reaction.

Exactly, with the caveat that other people can't expect to interfere with our issues and then just skate away freely, either - which is what brought on Afghanistan. The rest - i.e. Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc, we have no business with. All those engagements serve to do is to take our eyes off of the primary goal, and divide us and our attention.

The US didn't learn it's lesson in Vietnam and hasn't stopped making the same mistake since.

There are only two lessons we should have learned from Vietnam:

1. Fight to win, not to be nice, and
2. muzzle politicians in matters of warfare.

You are correct - we learned neither.

You seem to argue that because we in the West transcended from our barbaric religious nature, everyone else must do so also. If they wish to have religion intertwined with government and law, so be it.

Not at all. My position is that only THEY can choose their government. We can't impose an alien government on to them, which is why "nation building" is such a dismal failure, and ever will be. The "barbarism" enters when anyone seeks to impose their system on others, and in that we are no less guilty than they, and they are no less guilty than we are.

I'm not a nice guy. I believe that armies are to fight, not govern. Based on that, I believe that we should have destroyed Al Qaida and every living thing that willfully associated itself with AQ, and not tried to be nice about it, nor tried to change their internal politics. External problems may be our business, but internal affairs NEVER are.

In other words, I don't care who, what, or how they kill at home, but if they leave home and come to kill me or mine (and then have the temerity to actually come out and say "if you join us and follow our religion, we won't kill you any more"!), I want to drop the hammer on them, repeatedly, with gusto, and feeling, until there are none left to drop the hammer onto, and I want it done wherever they try to hide.

Only when that is done will they learn not to come over and pick fights.