My question to Christians.

I'll first start by saying that I by no means am intending to bash Christians or their holy book. The point of this thread is to provoke some thought and express my questions in a civil and open-minded way.

I am not a Christian. I don't believe I need an organized religion to define my moral compass. I have my definitions of right and wrong, and I don't feel I need a book or a group of people tell me what is "sinful" and what isn't.

I know many people who call themselves Christians who are very open minded, loving, and caring. They don't push dogma and are very, "live and let live" in their mentalities. My issue is this:

Why do so many pick and choose what they acknowledge in the Bible? The words are right in front of you, why don't you acknowledge even the undesirable parts? Why do Christians get haircuts? Why do some Christians eat shellfish? Sure, you could say that a lot of beliefs written in the Bible are no longer relevant, but if they aren't relevant, why are they still there? I was taught to believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the Bible is the word of God, according to a minister I once knew who made that claim.

How can some Christians say homosexuality is wrong, yet work on the Sabbath day? I suppose my issue is that I don't completely understand how such a large group of people could claim to be Christian when they don't follow the very book they claim to believe, and every part of it.

Once again, this isn't meant to be accusatory or condescending, it's just a question, so if there are inconsistencies please forgive my ignorance. Thank you!

reply to post by ofNight


Simple answer...

the bible is NOT the word of God... but IT can't be found within the pages of said book

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by ofNight

 

Simple answer...

the bible is NOT the word of God... but IT can't be found within the pages of said book

Thank you for your answer!

What's your take on 2 Timothy 3:16?

Edit: For those unfamiliar, I'll post the verse:

"All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right."

Why do christians even bother with the Old Testament and it's rules is beyond me- What is taught in the Old testament and the attitude it implies is very different than the teachings of Jesus.
edit: Bazinski for the win! (your avatar)

reply to post by ofNight


I would say "don't believe everything Paul says...

IF all scripture was inspired... none of it would have been removed...

Nor would there be errors within its pages

I don't think many people "pick" or "choose" when it comes to christianity.

Literally everyone i have known who "believes in god" and claims they are christian, either by belief or just for the fact of being "christened" at birth...

They have all told me after asking them, the only reason they conform with Christianity is because they were born into it, such as their parents are christians. I've always referred to it as being born into bondage, where you are told how to live your life before you can even begin to question the world around you. Effectively it changes a childs views drastically at such a young age, as they will assume they know the answer to everything... "god", which effectively mean's nothing.

I'm sure there are some christians who oppose my view, but this is what i see christianity as, a hereditary belief. The majority of it's "followers" only part of the crowd because they are told to, many of which have never studied their own holy text.

Christians follow the teachings of christ, who was the son of god. The old testament is before christ. therefore anything in that is not rally relevant to christians, more the entire catholic religion.

to be inspired by something is not to dictate it, an artist can be inspired to paint by a sunset, but it is still his own interpretation.

and anyway, it's all pretty much a manual made up by ancient man to keep the peons in order - a load of twaddle by todays standards and causes more grief than joy. One person my find peace in the bible, but it no less means that those millions who use it to persecute others, are not at peace.

i believe the good book was originally written as a code of ethics and a prophecy of hope for the future in a world of diabolical destruction and endless peril; by a group of people transcended down through history. But not only that a staple of the times was automatically imprinted. I also have the same questions you ask to fellow christians not demeaning or condescendingly but a genuine curiousity why they pick and choose whats actually written.

If you look at Deuteronomy alone it depicts i believe rape as the norm and many horrific things in the name of the lord.

Why does the lord need all of these sacrifices, why did need to kill every child of the egyptians, why did he send nations to set fire and pillage and destroy other nations because they were 'sinful'. It seems to me the wrath of god is no more devine than frustrated child (the way it was written). If He is so omnipotent and knows the future why does that anger foster and completely ruin entire nations. Why is the other parts of the world damned to eternal hellfire simply because they havent heard of Jesus Christ.

I should clarify that i do believe God does exist (or some benevolent force) but i believe the bible is highly flawed because of man which strictly defies the laws of christianity.

I think alot of people also use the Bible as a tool for alterior motives, in more cases than not use it for there own purposes. I dont mind Christians i just dont agree with the mission to 'convert' and push it on to everyone due to the fact that the only way to avoid eternal hellfire is through accepting Jesus. I dont believe fear should be at the core of any religion. But thats just me.

I dont intend to hurt anyones feelings or intentially defile christian religious beliefs. Its all in the Book.

I can't even begin to have an answer to the original question. I find myself dating a Jehovah's Witness. We go round and round about certain beliefs of his. The biggest one that gets me is that they don't celebrate birthdays or holidays, I asked why, he said because in the bible they don't mention celebrating such things, there for it MUST be the will/word of God not to. Well, what else DON'T they say in the bible that we do on a daily basis?? I am clueless about organized religion, I was born and raised Catholic but have since left the church due to too many inconsistencies within the church and the bible.

I am hoping someone can shed some light on the original question. Thanks OP for a thought provoking thread.

ofNight, you said:
"Why do so many pick and choose what they acknowledge in the Bible? The words are right in front of you, why don't you acknowledge even the undesirable parts?"

The simple reason why Christians "pick and choose what they acknowledge..." is because they only want to believe what is convienient. In fact, most people on this planet only believe what is convienient to believe, or only believe the first thing they have heard about a subject regardless of their religion and other beliefs they have. Most things aren't as complex as they seem. I hope this has helped.

Jordan

"Why do so many pick and choose what they acknowledge in the Bible?"

There is some really strange stuff in the Old Testament. An example: In the OT if a man has sex with an animal the man is to be killed and the animal, too.

Honestly, you have to use discernment which is in itself a gift of sorting truth from baloney.

Yes, the Bible is considered sacred scripture, but it was written by man and man is fallible.
I am not saying we fling poop on God and say I disagree with this, that or the other thing being a sin.

If I read something that rubs me wrong, I talk to an authority to help me understand. I'm Catholic so I talk to a priest.

reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7


Theres nothing in the bible about hiding chocolate eggs, or putting teeth under your pillow either

Religion brings people closer to God in some cases... it helps people realize their spiritual side. Though eventually it can also be a hinderance on spiritual progression...

reply to post by Holkven


I guess some of it has to do with not caring enough. I would assume alot of christians dont care to ask the strong questions because A. they havent actually read the book all the way through and B. They are getting their answers from respectable and intellectual people who they trust....so why question it. But that just accounts for the youth of the generation. I believe the majority of the christians are of older age because they see that death is on the horizon, and what bigger fear is there to believe nothing happens when you pass over, or rather...what if the Bible was right?

I dont discount the real compassion and genuine feelings of Christians but i do have to question to true intent of everyone.

However in the end. Were all human, i dont believe we'll ever get it right.

well as a Christian and a new Christian at that i guess this
1 Corinthians 1 :18 ,For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

when I was an atheist I thought like you ,and I couldn't read two sentences of the bible without thinking , gah! this is boring and stupid

but I get it now, FYI it is good for teaching and reproof ,but it actually isn't about that, it's about a war that started a long time ago and reconciling with God because he loves you.


let me guess ,you think I'm stupid

reply to post by ofNight

Why do so many pick and choose what they acknowledge in the Bible?

i am no christian , but from what i observed , because the bible does not make sense . Many times it contradicts , many lies , and made up stories.

You can't possibly not pick and choose and make your own version of what god is. Thats the beauty of christianity , you don't really have to follow the bible. Just pick your fav parts , and dismiss the parts you don't .

What a great religion right? well its not.

you can't use reason + logic , and bible + literal in the same sentence. There are far to many problems in the bible for that to come to be.

So naturally they don't wanna face that , stick their heads in the sand and just pick and choose what they feel is the right verses.

But of course christianity was never in the business of reason and logic where they ?

"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. " = christians .,muslims, hindus , jews , scientologists ,etc... they all suffer the same , problem.




2 Corinthians 10:5 ESV / We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ

Originally posted by ofNight
I'll first start by saying that I by no means am intending to bash Christians or their holy book. The point of this thread is to provoke some thought and express my questions in a civil and open-minded way.

I am not a Christian. I don't believe I need an organized religion to define my moral compass. I have my definitions of right and wrong, and I don't feel I need a book or a group of people tell me what is "sinful" and what isn't.

I know many people who call themselves Christians who are very open minded, loving, and caring. They don't push dogma and are very, "live and let live" in their mentalities. My issue is this:

Why do so many pick and choose what they acknowledge in the Bible? The words are right in front of you, why don't you acknowledge even the undesirable parts? Why do Christians get haircuts? Why do some Christians eat shellfish? Sure, you could say that a lot of beliefs written in the Bible are no longer relevant, but if they aren't relevant, why are they still there? I was taught to believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the Bible is the word of God, according to a minister I once knew who made that claim.

How can some Christians say homosexuality is wrong, yet work on the Sabbath day? I suppose my issue is that I don't completely understand how such a large group of people could claim to be Christian when they don't follow the very book they claim to believe, and every part of it.

Once again, this isn't meant to be accusatory or condescending, it's just a question, so if there are inconsistencies please forgive my ignorance. Thank you!

edit on 25-2-2012 by ofNight because: (no reason given)

I think that there is a great number of Christians (myself included) who believe from scripture that we are no longer under the authority of the law. Since Christ came He fulfilled the law and now we are under grace. Grace is the unmerited favor of God. We did not earn it. Jesus earned it for us. That is the reason we cut our hair, eat pork, etc. We are no longer bound by these laws- all of them. So there is no need for picking and choosing for those of this belief system.
Why do some Christians say homosexuality is a sin and yet work on Sabbath? Well, technically both of those are sins according to the law. But two things happen here in the minds of some Christians- 1. They put weight on to certain sins, making one worse than another. According to scripture God does not see it this way. Sin is sin.
And, 2. they forget where they came from...if we are living under grace that means grace for all believers, even the ones who struggle with issues that you may not struggle with. Overeating and swearing are sins, so why aren't people condemning those who do that? Is it because one is more socially acceptable than another? That is wrong thinking. God doesn't think like that. Christians need to demonstrate the love of God and not condemn others. That is how the message of God will be spread.

reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7


To JW beliefs specifically.


Romans 14:6
"He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God."

JW tend to jump on Holidays that other christians celebrate because of their pegan origins (Christmas and Easter being the main ones)


As for the ops questions, their are sects of Christianity just as with other religions, some believe one part of the bible is more important than others (baptist and their focus on baptism etc) thats why one group as a whole will focus on something they feel is important, its all stupid division.

Jesus was clear in the NT that its not the letter of the law, but the spirit, that All of the LAWS could be summed up in Do onto others, thats it, no more no less.

Interesting to note was Jesus main anger was toward religious Hippocrates who follow to closely the letter of the law while ignoring the spirit of it.

And as a side note I love how the Op clearly asked a question to Christians, and than the horde of non-Christians proceed to answer...

I always have questions about Christianity too OP. I don't question a God though. I truly believe that therr is a creator or supreme being because this world is too perfect. But so many factors don't add up to me. Like why only some books were put into the Bible out of hundreds... i.e. Dead Sea Scrolls etc. And why was the Bible written thousands of years after the events. Man tends to make mistakes and if you ever played the game Telephone in grade school you would know what I'm getting at there. Also, if we are all Gods children, why would anybody go to Hell? If your child let's say murdered somebody (extreme example), could you really send them to eternal damnation. I mean thats on a whole nother level haha. Again, I truly believe in God, but religion is so distorting. And all thr religions in this world have hugely significant similarities. Calling a persons religion 'wrong' is ignorant imo.

Food for thought I suppose. Sorry for all the questions.

i have a question to the christians responding to the thread.

What do these verses mean to you:

Matthew 5:17-Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matthew 5:19-Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Originally posted by ofNightMy issue is this:

Why do so many pick and choose what they acknowledge in the Bible? The words are right in front of you, why don't you acknowledge even the undesirable parts? Why do Christians get haircuts? Why do some Christians eat shellfish? Sure, you could say that a lot of beliefs written in the Bible are no longer relevant, but if they aren't relevant, why are they still there? I was taught to believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the Bible is the word of God, according to a minister I once knew who made that claim.

How can some Christians say homosexuality is wrong, yet work on the Sabbath day? I suppose my issue is that I don't completely understand how such a large group of people could claim to be Christian when they don't follow the very book they claim to believe, and every part of it.

edit on 25-2-2012 by ofNight because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the post. There are some good questions in there.
There are really a couple of answers to what you've written - or at least, two categories:

1) "Why do people pick and choose what to believe...?".

They shouldn't. As you've quoted, "All Scripture is God-breathed, and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (1 Timothy 3:16). There is no excuse, either Biblically or in logical terms, for ignoring parts of Scripture. Yes, there are things in the Bible that are distasteful for modern audiences; but I have never, ever encountered anything in Scripture that is beyond a fair, logical, and above all, *right* explanation.

2) Everything else... e.g "why do Christians get haircuts?".
You've failed to make a critical distinction here - and many Christians do the same, yet with different passages and different conclusions. There are two types of "Chosen People" in Scripture. The first is the Chosen Nation of Israel. It is to the children of Israel that the promises, the covenants and the law belong. Paul talks about this in the book of Romans. The second "Chosen People" is a people chosen not by race, not according to the seed of Abraham, but according to grace. This is the church.

The church and Israel, despite what some teach, are mutually exclusive in Scripture. For example, Paul talks about Israel's rejection at the hands of God, because of her own rejection of Christ (Romans 9 to 11), but then, he also talks about Israel being revived once the fulness of the Gentiles has come in. Isaiah 55-60 presents this same image, as does Ezekiel 37-38 and beyond. In fact, almost all of the Old Testament prophets talk about Israel's revival and restoration in the last days. We've seen the beginnings of this rebirth in recent history, with Israel becoming a nation again in 1948. Now, this doesn't mean that Israel is a Godly nation (it isn't), but it does mean that God is aligning the chess pieces.

So anyway, to answer your question - the other things you queried are a part of the Jewish system, and aren't part of the church. You can see the early church querying these same questions in the book of Acts, as they learned to adjust to the fact that Christ was not for Jews only, but also "a light to the Gentiles". They too were unsure about what gentiles should follow and what they shouldn't. Essentially they agreed upon a few minimal requirements, but felt that the law given to Israel was not a requirement for the gentiles and the gentile church, as they were not part of that first (Abhrahamic) covenant.

I hope that helps!