To the modern christan church, throw down your pagan ways and return to your first love

Originally posted by vaelamin
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

The fact that there are any stories about Jesus nativity and early years at all means that Mary had to be speaking to biographers about her Son and his message. That was YEARS after he died and rose.

Did jesus not have brothers? Was one of his brothers not also one of his disciples?

Apostle James was one of them. It would make sense that his brothers and sisters would follow him, they all knew who he was.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
But Mary is dead, I pray to Jesus because He's alive.

See Revelation 5:8. You can do both.

Revelation 5:8 says nothing about praying to Mary. And besides, what do I need Mary for that I cannot take to Christ directly Himself in prayers?

Originally posted by vaelamin
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

The fact that there are any stories about Jesus nativity and early years at all means that Mary had to be speaking to biographers about her Son and his message. That was YEARS after he died and rose.

Did jesus not have brothers? Was one of his brothers not also one of his disciples?

James and Jude, who have books of the Bible named after them, were not believers in Christ until after He rose from the dead.

What's with all this hate towards Protestants? The same Jesus died for us as He did for you guys correct?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by vaelamin
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

The fact that there are any stories about Jesus nativity and early years at all means that Mary had to be speaking to biographers about her Son and his message. That was YEARS after he died and rose.

Did jesus not have brothers? Was one of his brothers not also one of his disciples?

Apostle James was one of them. It would make sense that his brothers and sisters would follow him, they all knew who he was.

They only believed and became followers after He rose from the dead and appeared to them. (James and Judas) Before they they were not believers or followers. James, Jesus' brother wrote the book of James. The James mentioned in the gospels as Jesus' apostle is the brother of John, a different James. And another James that has no brothers mentioned. Mary also had girls, it says in the gospels He had half-sisters too.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I thought the Bible was clear, never are we to try and communicate with the dead. It was a capital offense in the OT.

Yes, and that was the very first fight I had with the Church. I can see the dead sometimes, and sometimes even speak with them. To me, this is normal, done it since I was a small child. But the Church of God where my Mother was a member saw the dead people I was seeing as "demons," a word Christians associate with any being not in their book, and some in their book, so they attempted to pray it all out of me. The Church does not have a lock on information! The Church is not the Ultimate Authority on everything! Oh they like to think they are, way up there on their high horse, with the biggest egos in the world, but thee fact is, most Christians have never even seen a dead person, and would be scared to death if they did.
I wonder what all of the Christians who think dead people are demons will do with the dimensions merge together, and they see all of their dead relatives and friends? What will they do when the ETs finally come? After all, to the Christians, they are demons too.
This is why I say Fundamentalist Christians will not make it though the Ascension Process. Minds are too closed off.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

But Mary is dead, I pray to Jesus because He's alive. He resurrected bodily.

Actually, I think he left his body behind.....

Feb. 25, 2007 — New scientific evidence, including DNA analysis conducted at one of the world's foremost molecular genetics laboratories, as well as studies by leading scholars, suggests a 2,000-year-old Jerusalem tomb could have once held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth and his family.

The findings also suggest that Jesus and Mary Magdalene might have produced a son named Judah.

The DNA findings, alongside statistical conclusions made about the artifacts — originally excavated in 1980 — open a potentially significant chapter in Biblical archaeological history.

A documentary presenting the evidence, "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," will premiere on the Discovery Channel on March 4 at 9 p.m. ET/PT. The documentary comes from executive producer James Cameron and director Simcha Jacobovici.

Jesus Family Tomb Believed Found

I know, the Christian crowd is calling this find "nonsense," but then they have a vested interest in keeping the lie alive, and the money flowing, don't they? Even if Yesuah did ascend, it was more like he was beamed up to a spacecraft.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000
One of my role models growing up was a franciscan monk. A great family friend. A great teacher.

You are free, of course, to say whatever you wish about the catholic church the Holy See, and it's rites and rituals.

I find peace, comfort, assurance in them.

reply to post by autowrench


Criminals weren't buried in family tombs and Yeshua was condemned as a criminal and buried as one in the criminal tombs of Golgotha, not his family tomb.

After a jew has died, his body would be prepared if there was time, high holidays like Passover dictated these terms however. The body would be place in a tomb and left for 1 year and no one would enter again until the flesh had rotted away and left the bones. The bones would then be taken and placed in an ossuary and placed in the family tomb, but criminals receieved a criminals burial.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

They only believed and became followers after He rose from the dead and appeared to them. (James and Judas) Before they they were not believers or followers. James, Jesus' brother wrote the book of James. The James mentioned in the gospels as Jesus' apostle is the brother of John, a different James. And another James that has no brothers mentioned. Mary also had girls, it says in the gospels He had half-sisters too.

Yeah, the way they have their names it makes you think it is one person when it's someone else. Take Mark for example, his first name was John. So we have his complete name of John Mark. Some may have referred to him as John, others as Mark (hebrew names ofcourse). Personally i find this aggravating, if the scriptures didn't tell you they were the brother, father or mother of so and so you will be like "huh".

I gave up trying to figure out who was who, in the end the message is whats important not whose saying it.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


John Mark wrote Peter's gospel for him. Mark is actually "The Gospel According to Peter".

Originally posted by vaelamin
Did jesus not have brothers? Was one of his brothers not also one of his disciples?

No. Brethren. Not blood brothers. Not blood sisters. If Jesus had blood brothers he wouldn't have given Mary to John at the foot of the cross. That would have been an insult to an actual blood brother. There were no blood siblings and therefore, all the information in the gospels about Jesus conception, his early life, and the fact that Mary 'pondered these things in her heart' ... would have come from MARY.

Early Church writings .. Jesus had no blood brothers

Brethren of the Lord

When trying to understand these verses, note that the term "brother" (Greek: adelphos) has a wide meaning in the Bible. It is not restricted to the literal meaning of a full brother or half-brother. The same goes for "sister" (adelphe) and the plural form "brothers" (adelphoi). The Old Testament shows that "brother" had a wide semantic range of meaning and could refer to any male relative from whom you are not descended (male relatives from whom you are descended are known as "fathers") and who are not descended from you (your male descendants, regardless of the number of generations removed, are your "sons"), as well as kinsmen such as cousins, those who are members of the family by marriage or by law rather than by blood, and even friends or mere political allies (2 Sam. 1:26; Amos 1:9).

Lot, for example, is called Abraham’s "brother" (Gen. 14:14), even though, being the son of Haran, Abraham’s brother (Gen. 11:26–28), he was actually Abraham’s nephew. Similarly, Jacob is called the "brother" of his uncle Laban (Gen. 29:15). Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar had no sons, only daughters, who married their "brethren," the sons of Kish. These "brethren" were really their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

The terms "brothers," "brother," and "sister" did not refer only to close relatives. Sometimes they meant kinsmen (Deut. 23:7; Neh. 5:7; Jer. 34:9), as in the reference to the forty-two "brethren" of King Azariah (2 Kgs. 10:13–14).

Do black people who call each other 'brother' all have the same daddy?
No. Ditto Jesus and His 'brethren'. Relatives .. cousins ... kinsmen ....
But there is no proof that they were his actual brother and sisters.
In fact, considering what happened when he died and gave Mary to John,
it's pretty darn clear that Mary had no other children in which for them to
'take into their home'.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Revelation 5:8 says nothing about praying to Mary.

It says directly that the 'dead' are infact awake and active in heaven. They take the 'prayers of the saints' and present them to God. Mary .. being one of the 'dead' .. would be among them. Therefore, 5:8 speaks not only of Mary, but everyone who has died and who isn't in hell. She doesn't have to be specifically named.

what do I need Mary for that I cannot take to Christ directly Himself in prayers?

Go ahead. But don't YOU pray for others? Why would you, if all those people have to do is go to Christ Himself.
Your prayers would be useless and unnecessary, right? That's why we are supposed to pray for each other, and ask others to pray for us. It's scriptural.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
What's with all this hate towards Protestants?

Why aren't you asking Lonewolf why all the hate towards Catholics??
And why do you assume it's 'hate towards protestants' to post information
that proves the Catholic faith is just fine? That's silly.

ETA .... while we are at it ... LONEWOLF owes everyone a huge apology for his continual LIES about the Catholic faith. APOLOGIZE Lonewolf .. apologize for telling lies ... like saying that until 1962 Catholics believed they'd go to hell for reading the bible. :shk: You've been proven wrong on your propaganda time and time again.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

But Mary is dead, I pray to Jesus because He's alive. He resurrected bodily.

Actually, I think he left his body behind.....

Feb. 25, 2007 — New scientific evidence, including DNA analysis conducted at one of the world's foremost molecular genetics laboratories, as well as studies by leading scholars, suggests a 2,000-year-old Jerusalem tomb could have once held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth and his family.

The findings also suggest that Jesus and Mary Magdalene might have produced a son named Judah.

The DNA findings, alongside statistical conclusions made about the artifacts — originally excavated in 1980 — open a potentially significant chapter in Biblical archaeological history.

A documentary presenting the evidence, "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," will premiere on the Discovery Channel on March 4 at 9 p.m. ET/PT. The documentary comes from executive producer James Cameron and director Simcha Jacobovici.

Jesus Family Tomb Believed Found

I know, the Christian crowd is calling this find "nonsense," but then they have a vested interest in keeping the lie alive, and the money flowing, don't they? Even if Yesuah did ascend, it was more like he was beamed up to a spacecraft.

You know how absurd that it? Christianity never would have exploded in first century Jerusalem after Pentecost if all people had to do was walk over to the tomb of Jesus. All His apostles would not have died saying Jesus rose from the dead and they saw Him when they could deny it to save their lives. All of them, minus John, who died of old age in Ephesus.

reply to post by autowrench


The Bible doesn't say you cannot contact the dead as in "not possible to", but "forbidden from doing". You can get a response from the spirit world if you try.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by autowrench

 

The Bible doesn't say you cannot contact the dead as in "not possible to", but "forbidden from doing". You can get a response from the spirit world if you try.

I've seen the fruits of that first hand. The Witch of Endor communicated with the spirit of Samuel as commanded by Saul. Saul didn't like hearing what the ghost of Samuel had to say. Samuel told him who was going to kill him and how.

People that play around with EVP and spirit boxes and all that other crap are playing with fire, more often than not those spirits are demons. I'd rather not open my home up to being invaded by something i cannot see by trying to communicate with them.

reply to post by autowrench

Yes, and that was the very first fight I had with the Church. I can see the dead sometimes, and sometimes even speak with them.

Well what do they say to you? The bible talks alot of demons and it talks alot of about spirits. It says not all spirits are good spirits but it says nothing about all spirits being evil.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

The trinity is biblical, all across the old and new testament. Yahweh, the Ruach haKodesh and Jesus are all one. When you're talking about the Holy Spirit you are talking about God. When you are talking about Yahweh you are talking about God. When you talk about Jesus you are also talking about God.

John 14:8-11

You are looking for vague "hints" within bible verses such as John 14, to support the claim that God is triune. At best, its just an interpretation.

On the other hand, we have other verses where God, His prophets and Jesus explicitly state that God is one. NOT once do we see them declare that God is triune. Do you think we'd be having this conversation if God just said He was "triune"?

BTW, this topic has slid off rail. This was a warning call to brothers and sisters alike to stop doing things that displease God. It's time to remove the paganism that was forced on us 1700 years ago.

Nothing is being forced on you today.
You willingly accept concepts such as a "triune" God... concepts that simply aren't there in the bible.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

It's says so right in the text beginning at Genesis 1:1. "Elohim" is plural of "EL", or "god" in Hebrew. Every time it appears in the text it's technically a grammatical error because it's a plural word used in a singular context. (Gods)

Just why does "US" have to mean the 3 of the christian trinity? Why cant it be 4 of 6 or 12 or 24?

What do you make of the Shema "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one."
Do you believe that it actually meant that God is triune?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Criminals weren't buried in family tombs and Yeshua was condemned as a criminal and buried as one in the criminal tombs of Golgotha, not his family tomb.

I believe the "official story" says Joseph of Arithmathea claimed the body, and buried it in his tomb. Joseph of Arithmathea was a rich man, so he would have a nice tomb, don't you think?

reply to post by vaelamin

Well what do they say to you? The bible talks alot of demons and it talks alot of about spirits. It says not all spirits are good spirits but it says nothing about all spirits being evil.

If you research the word "demon," you will see that it means "inner spirit," from the Greek. What they say to me, is my business, not yours.