Look if you doubt China's might

reply to post by IsraeliGuy


Korea was a stalemate, so technically we didn;t lose, but we didn't win.

Vietnam was a loss, we pulled out, Vietnam is now a communist country. Everywhere i go, there are Americans trying to argue that it wasn't a war. It was very much a war.

Iraq #1 - We were successful, however failed to eliminate Hussein completely, allowed him to rebuild, effectively meaning, going to war was pointless

Iraq #2 - We lost. Yes we ousted Hussein and put him to death, but we hightailed out of there last year. The turmoil is worse than ever.

Afghanistan - We are on a fast track to defeat in Afghanistan with UN/NATO reports stating that the Taliban will retake power once we leave. It is hopeless. We have lost Afghanistan.

I do not support China and it's army. I am Australian, and as such, support the Coalition, including the USA.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Historically, civilizations have a cycle of a few hundred years in which they go from just living to maximum power and back to just living again.

China is now starting an emipre cycle. It has been dormant for hundreds of years and like Europe during the Rennaisance is incorporating all of the knowledge of the world into its native culture. Ideas and activities are new and exciting to the chinese people that are old and mundane to us in the west. It is only a matter of time before China is the most powerful nation on the planet, and then after a while its time will run out as well.

To the OP...

Your afraid of... that? Really? A bunch of small people doing choreography from a 90's Jackie Chan film and walking in lines with a slight tilt of the head with no rifle? And your impressed by the handing off of a live grenade when it's obviously no more powerful than a few m80's tied together in a coke can, I think I used to do that with my friends in grade school.

You don't see too many "scary" video's like this from the US, why? All you gotta do is turn on the news and you'll see us actually blowing # up and killing innocent people who get in the way. Sometimes American's really doubt their own power.

I'd love to see those Chinese Red Army Ninja's face off with some Marine's in hand to hand, haha, that would be fun.

reply to post by BiffJordan

You don't see too many "scary" video's like this from the US, why? All you gotta do is turn on the news and you'll see us actually blowing # up and killing innocent people who get in the way. Sometimes American's really doubt their own power.

"Killing innocent people that get in the way." I wonder why the American military is so disrespected. Plus, if you watch MSM, you get to see plenty of "scary videos" like the one shown. No one doubt America's military might, but, you could be accused of having your head in the sand if you doubt China's might.

reply to post by PrinceDreamer


Yes, indeed NATO forces were forced back by the Chinese Army... In the process? Three entire armies were either killed or wounded...that's three entire armies. I've never seen an official number of casualties on the Chinese side, because so far as I know, no one really knows...other than many tens of thousands.

In the very unlikely event of a land war between U.S. forces and Chinese forces, numbers won't make a bit of difference... American doctrine is maximum firepower from as few as possible... Logistics is the name of the game. Getting there first with the most...and no one does it better than the U.S. military.

But this is unlikely. Both nations have far, far too much to lose, and nearly nothing to gain.

I have been going through some of these video's too.
At a glance the Chinese Army looks like a very well trained high moral fighting machine that would rival Japan WWII

keep looking at the video's though. The same actors keep coming into the camera. Anybody else seeing what I am seeing, Propaganda. They are masters of it.

My position of China being a Military Super Power is changing to just another player on the field of Battle.

I really would rather sing Kumbaya around the campfire.

Pride goes before a Fall. Who is to say that Chinese and Russian Subs are not off The N. American coasts ready to inflict the unthinkable. Don't be a fool. They are a threat. The Japanese pulled off a much greater blow when they set out and destroyed Pearl Harbour. Nuclear subs could hit with no warning and The troops on basis throughout the world may not have a N.America to come back too. America has been and is blessed. This is no reason to be arrogant and foolish thinking we are untouchable. Have you ever thought how many container ships with " shipping cans " are at our ports or even within our borders. CBN attacks are possible and even probable. Look at the response times for Katrina and even 911. It is unimaginable how bad it would be in a properly executed CBN attack against us. Oh sure we have the might and arms to hit back but what good does that do the people on the ground here. You may want to check out some info on what throws Chinese leadership out of power. It is lack of food for the people. Historical fact. Also look at the aircraft Carriers and fighter jets they are producing and not to leave out the Russians. The sleeping bear has been busy and is emerging from hibernation much stronger financially with their oil exports and a much better gap than America. An attack may not happen for awhile but you better realize every Kingdom eventually falls. Especially when it looks like it could never happen. Complacence is our worst enemy.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Exactly, however some people here seem to think that China has greater global force projection capabilities than the only super-power (or hyper-power if you will) on the planet.

reply to post by CaptainBeno


China has one outdated Soviet aircraft carrier which it is restoring/finishing. One single carrier, meaning it still has less than the UK and France.

reply to post by lordnightstalker

Nationalism is imho not a very big step from religion in terms of how ridiculous it actually is, the problem however is getting rid of both of those things and doing it FIRST

Both religion and nationalism produces fanatics in its lower ranks (ie, the masses who make them up).

However, the difference here is that the world is currently divided up by nations, not religion. Or at least this is the view of the more technically and socially advanced countries; the less advanced ones are still united more by religion than nationality (specifically in the middle east). It is a developmental attribute. The USA was certainly bent on its religious "white man's burden" when it massacred aboriginals, enslaved blacks, and tried to assimilate all of North America under its "Manifest Destiny" doctrine. So I find it rather hypocritical to see Americans portraying themselves as some modernist utopian providers to inferior cultures when they, themselves, have blood on their hands (and they probably don't even realize it).

But the US isn't based on religion anymore; it is nationalist, as all strong nations are in the modern world. We are in a stage between the post-colonialist period and a global order. Our next step in global development is the world partitioned into major, sovereign unions. This process started in the Cold War, with a prime example being the USSR (the American Empire was much more discreet in its methods but virtually did the same).

The whole struggle of modern times is to form a clear hegemony among who will lead this unions. Why? Because that's just how it works. There will always be hegemony and in terms of global order, weaker states will never rank close to the primacy of world powers. Entities such as the US, EU, Russia, and China, will make up the core of these unions, so you can see why they are all taking stances to partition out what they want.

And yes, what I am talking about is extremely Orwellian in nature, ie, the partitioning of the world into Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia in 1984. However, it doesn't have to be dystopian... but it probably will, because ultimately in this situation, perhaps seen as a tournament among global power, the remaining world entities will strive for ultimate global control.

This is the current plan, in my opinion. But I don't really agree with it. As you can see, this current strategy requires most resources to go towards imperialist partitioning, instead of real expansion. Perhaps they feel that expansion is the prize left to the victor. And by expansion, I mean beyond the borders of Earth. My solution is to start this expansion now as it will alleviate the tension of global accumulation with interplanetary accumulation instead, which could only lead to progression of our species.

But I guess I'm getting off topic

Show me 1,000,000 Chinese soldiers

I'm posting this

Rods from God

Look if you doubt Americas might

I'll spare the robotic insects bio weapon delivery systems, the Rail Guns, the armored suits that let men lift 10x their weight and every thing else we are building and researching because the bottom line is...

America spends more money researching ways to kill armies than other nations spend on their armies.

Goose step away China, you'll crap Lo Mein when you run into an army of Robots

And every technology that you mention, requires massive amounts of resources to produce, deploy, and maintain. Such resources are past peak production. What this means, is that these weapons have to be used to acquire the very resources used to fuel them.

And that's only talking fuel. Money wise, the US is already in extreme debt and even the government is looking to cut back in defense spending. The truth is that for the amount of money deferred to the US defense budget, relatively speaking, not much of it goes to actual research and production. Instead, most goes towards funding private forces like "contractors" (aka mercinaries) and proxy militias, black ops/psy ops in target countries, re-stocking the strategic fuel supply, etc.

And the weapons that the US funds corporations to produce are extremely expensive compared to counterparts from other countries- B2 and F-22 production was cut due to exponential costs that arised beyond the initial predictions (not surprising, considering that it all resulted in more profits for the production companies). And the F-35? What is it now, like $145 million per fighter (average cost, considering the various models)?

Drones are supposed to be the solution to these overwhelming costs of conventional weapon systems. But that's not why they are taking over. The reason is that the Americans operate drones from inside fortress America, and use these drones to strike all over the world.

reply to post by lordnightstalker

Because, no matter what nation you live in so long as there is a power structure and power to be had, at any given moment that structure can come under the control of a madman

Look America was a completely benign nation before WW2, or to be fair no more or less insane than anyone else in the world, as we entered this century we were basically decent compared to now, but we got wrapped up in a war and then over time the military industrial complex took over and now we are kind of scary, not Nazi Germany just yet but pretty close

You have much to learn if you think that it was only the military industrial complex that took over control of the US. The US military is only the strike force of whoever controls the US government. US government, now, can be virtually controlled by any international organization. This was made possible when American corporations were allowed to dump unlimited funds into presidential campaigns. The only barrier between international organizations and the president is setting up a company in the US.

China as a culture AWESOME, but they are human they are as vulnerable to corruption and control as anyone else is

I will admit that China has changed over the past few decades, creating even more disconnection between their government and the population.

However, this disconnection is nowhere near the same level as it is in the fascist USA, where corporations and foreign lobbies virtually dictate the actions of the US government.

The Chinese people, as I have stated before, are very disciplined and experienced, and they know not to go beyond the point of no return. Simply stating that "a madman can take over in any country" is a cop out, because it is only imaginative instead of reality. I thought you called yourself a realist? The Chinese government has been working on an agenda since Mao's revolution against the imperialists; they operate under intricate planning which also involves their foreign policy. There is absolutely zero chance of a foreign or private entity infiltrating the Chinese government to set it off course.

Any leader or commander who disobeys the plan of the Chinese state is an enemy of the state and will have a hard time finding any support before he finds himself executed by firing squad. The only deviance to this would be if some rival power presents itself as a serious threat to China (like Russia or the US) and hardliners take the reigns- and even then, it would be in response to aggression, not invocating it.

Originally posted by nedined
China has more active soldiers than USA population. It means more than 300,000,000 soldiers people! I hope USA would not need to fight them as we are going to be in big trouble then.

edit on 23-2-2012 by nedined because: (no reason given)

Do you have any idea how much of a logistics drain on any nation to sustain an army the size of China's? Its impossible to sustain their army anywhere outside their mainland. Water, food, ammo, fuel, medical supplies, equipment and parts to maintain tanks, jets and weapons. Its an absolute logistics nightmare and impossible for them to sustain for any long period of time. Now their defensive capabilities on their homeland are a different animal, they will never be attacked by anyone on their homefront but outside their borders they are no tougher than the insurgents the US has been dealing with in Iraq only in larger quantities.

Originally posted by Aliensdoexist

Originally posted by nedined
China has more active soldiers than USA population. It means more than 300,000,000 soldiers people! I hope USA would not need to fight them as we are going to be in big trouble then.

edit on 23-2-2012 by nedined because: (no reason given)

Do you have any idea how much of a logistics drain on any nation to sustain an army the size of China's? Its impossible to sustain their army anywhere outside their mainland. Water, food, ammo, fuel, medical supplies, equipment and parts to maintain tanks, jets and weapons. Its an absolute logistics nightmare and impossible for them to sustain for any long period of time. Now their defensive capabilities on their homeland are a different animal, they will never be attacked by anyone on their homefront but outside their borders they are no tougher than the insurgents the US has been dealing with in Iraq only in larger quantities.

Don't bet your life on it. China can confiscate resources from who ever they occupy. China can even make who ever they occupy work for them. China dosent have to fight a modern war like the US does, and get everything flown in or shipped in.

I will give you ONE MAJOR EXAMPLE of why CHINA will not attempt to confront the UNITED STATES EVER!

The Chinese have close to a 2 Billion person population....the U.S. a bit over 300 Million. Yet the vast majority of Chinese live in poverty. As experimental Capitalism begins to grow a Chinese Middle Class...China finds itself with Chinese Banks filled with Money.

WHERE DOES CHINA INVEST IT'S MONEY? WHAT IS CHINAS CONCEPT OF THE BEST AND SAFEST PLACE WITH THE MOST LIKELY PROFITABLE RETURN ON IT'S MASSIVE INVESTMENT?

Answer.......THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

A country that invests as much money as China has will NEVER DO ANYTHING to risk that investment....ie....a Military attempt to reunify China with Taiwan....allowing North Korea to roam off the LEASH....any direct challenge to U.S. MIlitary would be shere idiocy since this would force the U.S. to put in place more stringent export rules for Chinese imports.

The U.S. has a plan...it will change China from the inside....it will help create a Chinese Middle Class that will desire more Freedoms......an ACCOUNTING OF PUBLIC FUNDS THAT THE CHINESE COMMUNIST ELITE SPEND ON THEMSELVES AT THEIR WHIM! Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

the vast majority of Chinese live in poverty

That is simply not true. I think at the moment its 10%
of the population, and its getting less and less every year.

Originally posted by daaskapital
reply to post by IsraeliGuy

 

The USA has lost every war since WW2, and even still, they didn't to much in the 2 big wars.

I always here someone claim that. So I guess defeating Japan "didn't do much"? Or helping defeat the Third Reich? Yeah, tell that to all those dead Americans who gave their lives.

They lost Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and are about to lose Afghanistan. Not to mention some of the little conflicts.

Didn't lose Korea, Politicians pulled out. Same with Vietnam. Iraq was always a pacified nation building war. As if the U.S could not completely destroy Iraq? Same with Afganistan. The reason in your mind that the USA has not won those last two, is because they are trying to win the hearts and minds of those populations, not defeat them. Not saying it's right, Just saying.

The USA isn't what everyone makes it out to be.

Actually it is. Military and nukes. ~SheopleNation

reply to post by SheopleNation

Didn't lose Korea, Politicians pulled out. Same with Vietnam. Iraq was always a pacified nation building war. As if the U.S could not completely destroy Iraq? Same with Afganistan. The reason in your mind that the USA has not won those last two, is because they are trying to win the hearts and minds of those populations, not defeat them. Not saying it's right, Just saying. 

American government was in talks with oil companies
before they even set foot in iraq. Do you really think they
invaded iraq for the good of the people, because thats BS.

They did not destroy iraq, they did not need to. Their goal
is to put american government friendly puppets in charge.

My government (uk) is just as guilty, hence the reason why
we had the iraq Inquiry.

As for the vietnam war. There was no way in hell that america
was gonna win that war. The same prdtty much goes for afganistan.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
American government was in talks with oil companies
before they even set foot in iraq. Do you really think they
invaded iraq for the good of the people, because thats BS.

Are you kidding me? Of course I know that. Doesn't mean that they were not trying to win the hearts and minds of the people. Otherwise they would have just murdered civillians until the resistance gave up. Which they didn't do. Alteast not on purpose.

They did not destroy iraq, they did not need to. Their goal
is to put american government friendly puppets in charge.

The Iraqi army surrendered. Had America went in their like Hitler did to Russia, there would be no roadside bombs. Puppets? Come on my friend, do you really believe a guy like me doesn't understand that?

My government (uk) is just as guilty, hence the reason why
we had the iraq Inquiry.

I agree. It was for resources and Saddam no longer wanting to sell oil in Dollars. Alot of Oil for food program corruption as well. Either way, far from for the freedom of the Iraqi people.

As for the vietnam war. There was no way in hell that america
was gonna win that war. The same prdtty much goes for afganistan.

Afganastan was for resources and strategic positioning. Vietnam was an unjust War. America could have bombed the place to ruins if the Politics didn't prevent it. So, it was far from a defeat. ~SheopleNation

The Chinese will happily send millions off to die and millions of indoctrinated Chinese will happily die for the country they are proud of.
The US are sick of wars, the Chinese will soon NEED war to settle a dissension of the people under communism.

The only way to stop another Tianaman square turning in to an open rebellion against communism is a foreign war. The Chinese economy need to operate at a growth of @ 8% , if it drops lower than that the people will become agitated and disassociated from the politics.
The US needed WW1 and WW2 to drag themselves out of a depression, NOW so does China.
If any US persons believe that the Chinese are lesser people than their own people then history has taught you nothing. That makes you delusional.
The Chinese are capable of arming 50 million people
China Expands Military Training by 50 Million
China has greatly expanded a youth military training program and will provide compulsory training this year to 50 million youth from 18 to 9 years of age, an exclusive USA Today investigation reveals.
China also have 20 million trained reserves and weapons to arm them with.
Thats 10 Chinese to one US soldier.

My point is, just dont get to arrogant. Arrogance has lost many wars.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

the vast majority of Chinese live in poverty

That is simply not true. I think at the moment its 10%
of the population, and its getting less and less every year.

That is simply not true...the numbers themselves don't add up.
You have close to 2 Billion Chinese people....and the U.S. still is the worlds largest economy.
Using the calculation of Chinas GNP subtracting for Communist Party Spending....then divide by 2 Billion!
THERE IS YOUR ANSWER! Split Infinity

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by Aliensdoexist

Originally posted by nedined
China has more active soldiers than USA population. It means more than 300,000,000 soldiers people! I hope USA would not need to fight them as we are going to be in big trouble then.

edit on 23-2-2012 by nedined because: (no reason given)

Do you have any idea how much of a logistics drain on any nation to sustain an army the size of China's? Its impossible to sustain their army anywhere outside their mainland. Water, food, ammo, fuel, medical supplies, equipment and parts to maintain tanks, jets and weapons. Its an absolute logistics nightmare and impossible for them to sustain for any long period of time. Now their defensive capabilities on their homeland are a different animal, they will never be attacked by anyone on their homefront but outside their borders they are no tougher than the insurgents the US has been dealing with in Iraq only in larger quantities.

Don't bet your life on it. China can confiscate resources from who ever they occupy. China can even make who ever they occupy work for them. China dosent have to fight a modern war like the US does, and get everything flown in or shipped in.

66...WHO exactly is China going to occupy? They have no way of power projection or possibility of shipping out a large invasion force without the USN Blowing them out of the water. Are you thinking they wll attack Russia...the Russians will NUKE them before that happens! WHO else? India? The U.S. would also intervene.
China willnot invade anyone. Split Infinity