Light creates gravity. Here's how.

Originally posted by Ixtab
en.wikipedia.org...

How light is bent by gravity

edit on 20-2-2012 by Ixtab because: (no reason given)

So maybe that's the manifestation of what the OP means?

Interesting thread. Some good links on here.

You do know that light can also be a wave right, not just a particle.

The Theory of Malphas or as I like to call it (tape deck rewind side A/Play side B) where as the quantum level is moving back wards aka down
which relative to any living being seem like forward much the same as the ones life this idea being the fundamental hang up for modern physics

All of the major unsolved problems in physics are put together in flawless imperfection that have mystified the greatest mind of the 20th century

A photon is the most high frequency particles/wave
A neutrino is the medium
a phonon opposite of a photon

since it exists on the other-side of the universal construct being composed of anti-matter it takes in the higher energy of matter which resists this absorbance as it expands into itself by the force of the low pressure gathering from high pressure or high energy waves that are trying to stay as particles

We call this pulling effect gravity but since it is of the most high powered form of energy and are thus the most energetic of anything that travels through the void of space unlike a photons you see everything that is visible to use is matter its Plus energy being pulled back to the source which is part of everything giving flow to the universe thats why neutrinos are so key they help balance it out their the medium that allows for energy to have 3 dimensional occupation of space

but in 3 dimension you have six directions in this side of existence up is technically all 6 direction without a single point but down is only one way within that point meaning 5 is the ways you can travel because eventually everything flow back to the other-side somethings faster then others and the other-side works much the same with down being 6 outs and up being only one way which is absorbing the energy of the high energy side which is holding on to it for as long as possible in the most reasonable rational and logical way math mathematical way to prolong its existence

Its is the fate of that which is alive to be destined for death eventually because to live is to be dieing
such is life it is the fight to exist as the universe is flowing backward but like the A side of a tape deck starts playing the B side which rewinds the A.
Unfortunately people cant seem to except that they exist on the A side making the relative time reversed which is true since we cant see the A side and can one observe the B side seeing that on this side you look outward after death is when you look inward. Meaning everything that matters here is a living thing and every beginning has an end this is the struggle against backwards
This was why Einstein couldnt get the gravitational paradox resolved despite being 100% correct time is relative He just never thought that they universe is rewinding giving the appearance of expansion he and everyone else it seem for the last century have tried to make it liner since time to them can only move forward and falsely created which are 2 different things things that as one infinite space-time together as one
Space cant wrap only the thing occupying it can be changed or wrapped
The question that need to be ask is simple how can something Be infinitely close and infinitely far
Most would say it cant I beg to differ
For it can but only in infinite ways is it possible

Space is immortal and infinite space is just space its void where prohibited, it essentially unchanging it is space whether empty or full

It is that which occupies a space that defines it
time in essences is a product of change forwards and backwards Change is a fundamental constant presently driven by the force we call gravity
but resisted by the

Strong and Weak nuclear force- serving to bind atomic structure together
as well as
The Electromagnetic force which can flow between the matter and antimatter sides helping to stablelize the atom to last almost forever at least almost.

That's why electrons jump position taking in a photo or emitting one this is the action of a electron jumping to become a positron only on a different level of in the atom
it is made of infinite energy which divides and multiples thus allowing for every possibility to with any chance of probability no matter how slime all it needs is but the smallest chance and it will happen eventually

Most of the anomalies and paradoxes that remain unresolved in science are easily resolved by This Theory
The following problems are either fundamental theoretical problems
-Quantum gravity
-Black holes, black hole information paradox, and black hole radiation
-Arrow of time(s)
-Dark flow
-Observational anomalies- Galaxy rotation problem
-Hipparcos anomaly: What is the actual distance to the Pleiades?
- Pioneer anomaly-What causes the small additional sunward acceleration of the Pioneer spacecraft?
- Flyby anomaly: Why is the observed energy of satellites flying by earth different by a minute amount

All
en.wikipedia.org...

sometimes i sit and ponder. sometimes i just sit. sometimes i just ponder.

could consciousness be a byproduct of the singularity....

Surely if your theory is correct gravity would be random as light doesn't travel in the same directtion, as you should know light is scattered when it hits objects, and wouldnt a mirror be able to bend ggravity? And why is gravity weaker on the moon despite it getting almost the same light dose from the sun?

I think gravity is pressure from Time/Space aka Ether,
Like how the weight of water would apply pressure to a submarine the deeper it goes,
The bigger the mass, the more pressure is applied to it,

Mass could also be described as bubbles in water, if they get close enough to each other, they will bond and become a bigger bubble

To travel through space using "gravity", you would have to create a cone shaped bubble/void in the Ether, where the space-craft is at the wider end of the Cone Bubble.
The Ether will fill up the wider end of the Cone faster than the narrow end, and your space-craft just rides along this Cone Bubble,

1 Cone Bubble pulse from the space-craft is probably enough to make it go however fast indefinitely, until it creates another Cone Bubble in the opposite direction to make it stop.

The space-craft could also use rapid Cone Bubble pulses to make it hover while on the surface of a planet.

In deep space, the space-craft could probably keep making rapid Cone Bubble pulses to travel intergalacticly, creating it's own little wormhole while it is traveling through it

You could probably use this "Cone Bubble Beam" to pick stuff up too

Mass can displace Ether. Einstein said Mass and Energy is the same...

Originally posted by ILikeStars
sometimes i sit and ponder. sometimes i just sit. sometimes i just ponder.

could consciousness be a byproduct of the singularity....

Could it be a by product of anything else?

If you have 1 you have something but to have a 1 you must have a -1 as well between 1 and -1 is just as much space as outside of them
Two points of the infinity cause One point . is just nothing 0 is like Pi it it takes 2 points to define anything and 3 to triangulate it 4 to square it and between inside or outside flow there are 5 direction one can go but the 6th is only one way everything is going down or within actually

Lovin' this thread ,S&F OP for the mind exercise and throwing out your theory.
I am no physicist (I'm barely human) but I enjoy learning about this subject and enjoy opening new avenues of thinking even more.

Forgive my ignorance as an interested lay-person but would I be correct in assuming that according to your theory an electron could be suspended by an omni-surrounding light source equal in all directions as the light would repulse the electron equally from all sides?

On a huge scale with super intense light if the intensity of the light source was varied from a particular point would it propel/repulse the electron accordingly?

reply to post by UKmonster


Light in the atmosphere is diffuse whilst Laser light is coherent and traveling in one direction. perhaps that holds a clue for experiments?

Particle accelerators accelerating fluorescent atoms would be another interesting experiment

reply to post by smithjustinb


No I don't get what your saying, I don't see how it creates gravity, gravity is only created by mass. Light is affected by gravity though.

Originally posted by coyote66
If photons do not have mass, why does light bend when passing near a star? (observed at an eclipse)

edit on 20-2-2012 by coyote66 because: (no reason given)

Why is it necessary for photons to have mass in order for their paths to be bent?

Honestly, I'm astonished at the fervent Acceptance of Ignorance on this thread. Does not anybody know any physics at all?

Here's a hint. There was this german guy called Albert. He figured it all out.

In a nutshell:

*) light does not have mass, but it does have momentum and and energy density and hence a pressure
*) this means that light (electromagnetic fields) does indeed work as a source(=cause) of gravitation along with mass. In practical terms, this effect is very small and cannot be measured on Earth, but has some effect on the cosmology of the universe.
*) gravitation affects the geometry of space time which affects all laws of physics and their observations.
*) there is a specific quantitative theory which has been upheld by experiments and observations for almost a century
*) quantum mechanics is not necessary in the above.

See "Einstein-Maxwell equations" here: en.wikipedia.org...
The stress-energy tensor is the thing which "causes" gravity. There is a part for electromagnetic fields which you add to that of matter.

In the following, the tensor is composed exclusively from electric and magnetic fields (no particles), which means that electromagnetic waves (light) contributes.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by mbkennel

Originally posted by coyote66
If photons do not have mass, why does light bend when passing near a star? (observed at an eclipse)

edit on 20-2-2012 by coyote66 because: (no reason given)

Why is it necessary for photons to have mass in order for their paths to be bent?

Honestly, I'm astonished at the fervent Acceptance of Ignorance on this thread. Does not anybody know any physics at all? I

Here's a hint. There was this german guy called Albert. He figured it all out.

In a nutshell:

*) light does not have mass, but it does have momentum and and energy density and hence a pressure
*) this means that light (electromagnetic fields) does indeed work as a source of gravitation along with mass. In practical terms, this effect is very small and cannot be measured on Earth, but has some effect on the cosmology of the universe.
*) gravitation affects the geometry of space time which affects all laws of physics and their observations.
*) there is a specific quantitative theory which has been upheld by experiments and observations for almost a century
*) quantum mechanics is not necessary in the above.

edit on 20-2-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-2-2012 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)

No sorry dude I didn't know that. Always thought that the source of gravity only came from mass, but I guess a pressure wave can create gravity? I know light bends with gravity, but isn't this because space is bending?

Originally posted by andersensrm


No sorry dude I didn't know that. Always thought that the source of gravity only came from mass, but I guess a pressure wave can create gravity?

Yes. You add up all the stuff in the stress-energy tensor. Quantitatively, except when you're dealing with the universe as a whole, the part which comes from mass is the dominant one by far.

I know light bends with gravity, but isn't this because space is bending?

Yes. Relativity is recursive. There is "stuff which bends space" (stress energy tensor) on the right hand side which then with the Einstein equation feeds into the curvature which is on the left hand side, but the right hand side (stuff) is affected by the curvature generated on the left. You need to find a self-consistent solution (it's nonlinear and it's very difficult!) consistent with the equation.

When space bends, everything (all laws of physics) are affected. This is Einstein's most important insight. It was totally unlike all physics before---before there was physics of matter and physics of electromagnetism and they interacted with each other.

But with relativity (special & later general) now there was principles of physics which affected all *other* parts of physics (with observable consequences), including parts not yet discovered at the time, such as nuclear forces which are distinct from the other ones previously known.

It's only second in importance to Isaac Newton---his most important discovery is that all laws of physics can be described as differential equations and then there is a notion of "state of a system" which evolves into a new state by some laws. Even quantum mechanics works this way and we can't even think of physics which doesn't now.

reply to post by mbkennel


Right so then technically its not the light that is bending due to gravity, it is because the actual space is bending, which is the way I thought it was.

I'm sorry but that is flawed thinking that has been disproved by the fact that when its night time you and everything else don't just float up and away.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
Is it possible that light creates gravity? Photons travel at 300,000 km/s and bombard the earth. Wouldn't something travelling at that speed and hitting any object, regardless of light's masslessness have some kind of effect?

If light had mass, travelling at 300,000 km/s, it would hurt when it hit. But since it doesn't have mass, it's bombardment doesn't hurt, but it doesn't let you jump very high either.

When light comes into contact with matter, it hits it at 300,000 km/s and reflects at 300,000 km/s. Imagine what this looks like at the atomic level. In order for light to reflect and maintain its speed, It must first be absorbed by a body and then re-emitted. So, I can see how electrons might actually grab on to the light, whip it around the nucleus of the atom and then launch it back into space. At the point of the electron's acceleration, (in order to maintain light speed constant) and at the point of the electron's down to earth (no pun intended) direction, gravity is created. The electron would only speed up to light speed on its downward motion. As the light being held by the electron returns to the surface, the light lets go of the electron and the electron returns to its base speed.

Every atom has electrons that has a magnetic repulsive effect on the electrons in close proximity. When one electron moves in one atom, so do the electrons in the adjacent atom. This is how light creates gravity even on the dark side of the earth. Gravity is actually the electron's accelerating influence on the atom as it travels downward to the earth or to the center of the body.

There's a lot more to it, and a lot of calculations to be made, to completely describe the process, but we can let the rest of that unfold in the following discussion.

Is it reasonable to consider that particles have velocities, but waves, or the wave forms of particles, are not technically accelerating?

reply to post by xacto


How do you mean by that, how are the waves not moving??

Originally posted by 1ncegreat
I'm sorry but that is flawed thinking that has been disproved by the fact that when its night time you and everything else don't just float up and away.

You think the Sun is the only source of electromagnetic material?

You do know that every electron and proton and neutron emit and absorb photons (light) right? In fact, the exact mechanics are still largely unknown. It could be that photons orbit electrons rather than being "absorbed", and as for the nucleic particles, who knows, maybe photons are constantly absorbed and never emitted from the nucleus? Strong nuclear force needs something strong to power it eh?

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by xacto

 

How do you mean by that, how are the waves not moving??

Hard to explain, it's almost like the sinusoidal waves aren't actually moving through space time, but rather are constantly dynamic "train tracks" through time space, after all, rapidity of change is, well, frequency.

hmmm, I'm no physicist, and I know others in this thread have borught it up, but if light created gravity then if you isolated a space/room and all that is in it from all light sources for a substantial amount of time, do you think gravity would cease to exist in this space/room(or be less powerful)?

Also if light can travel in all directions at the same speed then wouldnt "gravity" cancelling itself out?

Interesting topic anyway, I like physics but have never really had a chance to look into it much. there is so much to learn and I believe certain people in the past have had a lot more answers than what is taught in schools today, eg, Nikola Tesla, maybe even others like Ed Leedskalnin and Peir Ighina.

S&F for your thoughts anyway