The Driver vs. Bicyclist Fight is Way More Violent in England

If you drive a vehicle on the road in the UK, you must have road tax, insurance and an MOT, if not, you will fall foul of the parlimentary statutes.
Cyclists need none of the above.

No matter what way you spin it, that's unfair.

If a cyclist is at fault and causes damage to my property, how do I claim compensation?
If I have to pay a tax to use the road with my vehicle, why should cyclists be exempt? Aint they using the road too?
If I have to pay to have my vehicle certificated as safe to use on a road, why does that not also apply to a bicycle?

So some cyclist with a bycycle that has faulty brakes slams into my car and damages it and there's not a damn thing I can do about it?
Well OK maybe there is but trying to get compensation in a case like that usually involves the small claims courts which can be a lengthy and costly process where you need to prove fault. Yet a cyclist injured by a vehicle driver has a nice fat (No cost) insurance claim.

As for the Video in the OP.......... In no way am I defending the idiotic actions of the bus driver, but I dont think the viewers are in full reciept of the facts.
It is reported that the bus driver and cyclist involved had an earlier altercation which was not on camera. The details of the earlier altercation are sketchy but I am led to believe the cyclist did some dumb stuff and the bus driver reacted angrilly.
Thats why you can see the cyclist slowly peddaling down the center of the lane in order to slow down and annoy the bus driver in some kind of revenge action. When the bus tried to overtake the cyclist, the cyclist swerves out to stop him.

The bus driver deserved his punishment but I'm not convinced the cyclist deserves as much sympathy as he seems to be recieveing.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Same in the UK, if you go into the back you are responsible. I was badly trying to get across though that cyclists also cause accidents. Therefore they should also have to pay insurance. If not, why should car drivers? Car drivers only pay insurance in case or accident or injury. We either have laws that are applicable to all or we totally divide up society depending upon preferences.

I personally favour law for all but if others fancy going the other way my first proposal would be tax returns for us skinny, healthy folk as we are less of a burden on society!

I see what you are saying but if it were all bikes the cost of repairing the possible damage incurred would be miniscule compared to damage wrought by the automobile. Why should a cyclist pay any portion of the damages of actually killing someone or demolishing a building when a bike can't possibly accomplish that by itself? We are talking "pennies" worth of damage compared to hundreds of thousands of dollars...not to mention what is a life worth?

Still though to your point, cyclists should also be required to pay for insurance. It should not be as much as a motorist but should cover for their medical expenses in case they get hit by a car to defray those costs to the driver that hit them - preserving "life" should always be the first priority.

But then again, I think drivers should pay a pollution tax, for contributing to atmospheric conditions that unduly (and through no fault of their own) affect the walker, the non-drivers and the cyclist.

But you are right in a way thinking all things should be considered and weighed according to impact positive AND negative. A monetary calculation should be done that makes sense and is not arbitrarily favoring one and ignoring the other. One that is equitable and fair all around. People should be able to look at what they are paying in tax and say YES that makes sense because, I do this - and it does that.

You will NEVER please the cheapskates who do not ever think they must pay their fair share or take responsibility for the changes (good or bad) THEY PERSONALLY have incurred on the world, even if only incrementally, because everybody else is doing it

BUT you can in an evidential and painstaking effort to be fair, manage to do the right thing and please most reasonable people most of the time.

And so it stands true:
To have a reasonable world
you should please the reasonable people.

We shouldn't get sidetracked or pay attention to any of the EXTREMISTS, right or left.

Originally posted by Silvertrowel
So some cyclist with a bycycle that has faulty brakes slams into my car and damages it and there's not a damn thing I can do about it?
Well OK maybe there is but trying to get compensation in a case like that usually involves the small claims courts which can be a lengthy and costly process where you need to prove fault. Yet a cyclist injured by a vehicle driver has a nice fat (No cost) insurance claim.

Ever claimed on your insurance before?

Small claims sounds pretty simple compared since you have to convince a judge about the law, the judge isnt trying to wriggle out of being liable like the insurance companys would.

Bicycles do not ware down the road, when they crash they do not make holes in buildings, they do not polute and theres many more reasons why no tax or insurance for bicycles exist.

The only gripe a car user reallky has, is that occasionally they get to work a fraction of a second later to their desination, oh my sweet lord, major misjustice! /sarcasm.

reply to post by PhoenixOD


I fail to see how this is or what this has to do with conspiracies.

Originally posted by TrueInstinct
Bus driver shouldn't have got that aggressive, but the idiot cyclist should have moved over rather than being right in the centre of the lane.

Take up a lane with a bike down here and you'll get abuse from most motorists.

Clearly you didn't watch the video or aren't aware of what a cycling lane means.

Even in the footage, the camera shows a patch of road stating the strip he is on, is in fact a cycling lane. It means bikes are free to move on it just as any other vehicle.

Being from bristol myself and knowing this road, the driver of the bus is lucky that he didn't get jailed for attempted murder (which i think he honestly should have).

What is an idiot cyclist anyway? Watch the video again and it's easy to spot the bus driver is the idiot, as the cyclist did absolutely nothing wrong.

They give any idiot a drivers license. They are not taught to look out for motorcyclist or cyclist. When I use to cycle alot I have almost been cliped in the head with wing mirrors of trucks. An RV came up behind me and made a right and almost ran me off the road and basically had to sit on my back tire and jam on the brakes so hard. Riding a bicycle you have to have eyes in the back of your head one eye on the ground so you dont go down storm drains and one eye to where you are going. As for riding a motorcycle I had one try to pass me on the right side on the shoulder. I was going 5km over the limit. I had another guy whip out of a parking spot and even when I was riding near the centre line to avoid such a thing I still had to do a lean the bike into the other lane and he miss me by a couple of feet. Yeah I looked and I shouldnt have.I was taught to ride like cars are out to kill me to avoid them.Cagers as they are called are in a hurry to where they are going for no reason and for no regard for other people plus they are playing with their phones and radios and just not paying attention. Make these people ride a bike in traffic or motorcycle and they would be more courteous especially when in a car they can kill the cyclist or motorcyclist.Sure there are idiots who ride bikes too but it doesn,t justify trying to kill someone just to save a few seconds to get somewhere.

Originally posted by Biigs

Originally posted by Silvertrowel
So some cyclist ETC

Ever claimed on your insurance before?

Small claims sounds pretty simple compared since you have to convince a judge about the law, the judge isnt trying to wriggle out of being liable like the insurance companys would.

Bicycles do not ware down the road, when they crash they do not make holes in buildings, they do not polute and theres many more reasons why no tax or insurance for bicycles exist.

The only gripe a car user reallky has, is that occasionally they get to work a fraction of a second later to their desination, oh my sweet lord, major misjustice! /sarcasm.

edit on 20-2-2012 by Biigs because: (no reason given)

Yep. Ive claimed on my insurance twice in over 20 years. Both times, the claim was settled satisfactory. There was some paperwork, a cople of calls and it took a few weeks to settle. It was not easy exactly, but neither was it rocket science.
The small claims court is a nightmatre. I know because I took an organisation there. I won't go into the details, suffice to say that in the end I settled out of court for a measely sum rather than continue the complicated process.
By the way, you don't need to convince the judge about the law, you need to prove fault and prove that you suffered loss and prove that your compensation claim is in line with said loss.

Bycles do not wear down the road? Evidence please. Cycle tyres are made of the same stuff that car tyres are, they are just lighter and smaller.

I'd say that a maniac on a bike travelling at maximum possible speed and then crashing into a shop window for example, may indeed actually make a hole in the building.

Bicycles cause traffic to slow therefore building congestion. Congestion leads to more polloution.

If there are other reasons why Bicycles should not be subjected to road tax, cycle safety checks and insurance, please state them.

Lets say hypothetically that a cyclist has faulty brakes. A man steps into the road and a car screeches to a halt in order to avoid him. The cyclist hits the car and he goes flying over the roof and is seriously injured. My car is directly behind the accident and I have no way of moving around the carnage. I now sit and wait for the carnage to be removed. I am delayed a little more than a fraction of a second.

You have obviously never tried to get into central london at 8am. Take a look at the many vids on you tube where cyclists with helmet mounted cams make these types of journeys and use the film to complain about car drivers. Often, their complaints are justified but these vids also show something else.
They show the sheer number of cyclists now on our roads. Thery show cyclists, sometimes 3 or 4 abreast in the road as they trry to overtake each other in some kind of wacky races. They show cyclists weaving in and out of slow moving traffic and drivers need to be aware of them coming from behind from any direction. They show cyclists blantant refusal to use cycle lanes placed for them at taxpayers expence.

Oppinions on this issue will ofcourse be divided but I state my case based on actual experience of the daily battle I face to avoid cyclists who I feel are treated far to fairly with regards to tax, insurance and mode of transport safety.

I would like to not have a problem with cyclists but today, an incident reaffirmed my dislike for the majority. I was driving on a main 2 lane road and stopped at traffic lights at an island. A cyclist flew past me with no regard for his own safety or anyone elses. As the lights changed and I moved off, I reached the speed limit of 40mph and passed him. Further down the road is a small island and he tried to undertake me as I slowed down. I moved closer to the kerb to stop him undertaking me as I needed the inside space to negotiate the tight Island. As I did so, he squeezed into the gap, practically latched on to my wing mirror and started hurling abuse! (To add to this, the pavement was furnished with a cycle lane which he chose not to use, presumably because the road is faster)

In my opinion, arrogant cyclists are the reason for the hatred many motorists have. Cyclists think they deserve the same respect as a larger vehicle but when something bigger invades their space they get irate.. move the hell over to the side, accept you need less space than a car and wind your neck in, then you won't get so much grief.

Originally posted by InsideYourMind

Originally posted by TrueInstinct
Bus driver shouldn't have got that aggressive, but the idiot cyclist should have moved over rather than being right in the centre of the lane.

Take up a lane with a bike down here and you'll get abuse from most motorists.

Clearly you didn't watch the video or aren't aware of what a cycling lane means.

Even in the footage, the camera shows a patch of road stating the strip he is on, is in fact a cycling lane. It means bikes are free to move on it just as any other vehicle.

What is an idiot cyclist anyway? Watch the video again and it's easy to spot the bus driver is the idiot, as the cyclist did absolutely nothing wrong.

I watched the vid. What cycle lane? I didnt see any cycle lane.
At the start of the vid, the bus can clearly be seen stationary with the cyclist sitting stationary infornt of it. I believe, as stated earlier, there was some kind of altercation.
To say the cyclist did nothing wrong is wrong in itself. You have no proof of that.
The story as reprted to me was that the cyclist did some dumb stuff, there was an altercation and the bus driver took action.
The bus drivers action was not justified and he was correctly punished.
But maybe he had motive? His motives may well be wrong and ofcourse his motives do not excuse his action but maybe the cyclist is not 100% inocent?.
As i posted before, I am far from convinced the cyclist dserves all the sympathy he is getting.

Originally posted by lordbayfin
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

I fail to see how this is or what this has to do with conspiracies.

The Illuminati are trying to get us all on bicycles .
When the revolution comes, we wont be able to outrun the armoured personall carriers.

Originally posted by Monte-Carlo
As a driver I do respect those that commute with their bicycles in the cities.

Where I live (Monaco) there is a small coastal road that is heavily used by commuters that come from Italy to work in France and is already dangerous as we have to share the road with buses and zillions of scooters.

You rarely see people commuting on their bicycles on these roads, but on the other hand there are Many many Lance Armstrong wannabees that are totally geared up ( Racing bikes, racing suits ) and often go out in groups and instead of riding one behind the other, they ride by group of two or three next to each other, forcing the cars to go on the other lane in order to overtake them. ( There are many many turns on these small roads so overtaking visibility is minimal )

When I see them I get angry and almost develop road rage as they put us drivers at risk ! ( The thought of ramming into them sometimes comes to my mind.... but of course will never never ever do it !!!!!!!! )

We have so many beautiful country roads in the back that are empty and yet they have to use the road of the daily commuters.

If we have to share the road we should respect each other.

edit on 20-2-2012 by Monte-Carlo because: typo error

Nope, I thought it should be that way too. But your a car driver, so automatically you labeled as an a$$hole. Bikes have full use of the road, so you have to stay behind them, going 15 in a 35 all the way up. Its always about greed, and superiority. They keep telling me that I'm the one with superiority, when they can't share the road with us. I'm perfectly willing to SHARE the road, not give it up to the bikes.

I just went on you tube. I searched for 'Bicycles in London' and the first hit was entitled ....... London Calling - Bike Messengers Race
Im not sure if Im allowed to post a link so just type in the title.

Take a look, watch the whole 5minutes. then come back and tell me how much you love cyclists.

Please note the exact wording of my initial search. I chose not to search for potentially anti-cyclist terms because I wanted vids posted by pro cyclist users.

Originally posted by Oxygenation
There is a little more to this story actually, if you read the youtube replies..

Apparently the driver and the bike rider had mixed words leading up to the knockdown.

The bike rider was riding along side the bus and the bus driver cut him off..
So the bike rider wanted to exact revenge by riding directly in front of the bus to wind up the driver..

That's why the driver flipped.

I don't condone either action to be honest but you do not do that! If you do then it wouldn't be getting all these comments.. it is getting this attention because it is wrong!

I ride my bike through traffic everyday but i don't follow the code.. i pass red lights and i ride on pavements.. both fine-able of fences and yes i have been fined before..

My point is we all cut corners, both riders and drivers, its human nature to.. especially if you're in a rush.
We all do.. we just need to do it safely, with caution and respect for others.

Yep, I get it, I've ridden a bike too. I don't have a problem, because I 1. Stay out of people's way, (quite easy, and I don't know why people insist that they must have full use of the lane, and force other drivers to wait) 2. I respect other drivers, and I know how to look where I'm going so I'm not cutting off anyone. Equal rights would mean, what we have now, where bikers get full use of the road, which they do so they can make left turns and right turns, not to group up sit in the middle of the lane and block 50 cars going back on a one way road.

I like how the bike riders are yelling at the car drivers for being impatient, when the bike riders could ride on the sidewalk very safely if you slowed down as well. I can ride very comfortably at walking speed and bother no one, of course this would mean you would get there a lot slower, and you wouldn't want that would you? Oh unless your a car driver. What hypocrites.

I am for equal rights, all around, nobody should have more rights. If you don't want the dangers of riding a bike, don't ride one. Pretty simple, you can always walk, or buy a car, or buy a motorcycle. Not all bikers are problems, a lot of them stay out of your way, and I could care less if they stop at every red light, and stop sign, as long as they do so with intelligence, and not stupidly. Use trails when they're obviously there, Or if you have to take the road be respectful of others, that's all I ask. Nobody RULES the road, not bikers, not cars, not pedestrians. Pedestrians have to yield just as cars do, I mean you can't just go running into the road.

You can rant and rave about the cyclist, but the person doing the deed was the bus driver. He has been tried and sent to prison. Quite right too.

I have seen cyclists acting in stupid ways and putting their own lives in danger - as well as other people, including pedestrians. For cyclists to get my sympathy they need to observe the rules of the road. In the UK that's the Highway Code and includes simple things like stopping at red lights and pedestrian crossings, not weaving in and out of traffic and blah, blah, blah.

If cyclists want equality on the road, then they need to observe the rules equally.

By the way, I am a cyclist and a driver. I treat other road users with respect on a bike or in a car.

Regards

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of bad drivers out there too, and that needs to be addressed, but it ain't a one sided problem, and those that think it is, are just as bad as anyone who fights for unequal rights. Its called SHARING the road, not dominating it. Bikes don't get to dominate, neither do cars, they both have to SHARE the road, thats equal rights.

IMHO most people driving out there, don't have a clue what they're doing. I think our tests need to be much harder, and when you hit 70, you need a test every 2 years from then on out.

People will fight over extremely mundane issues. "Bicycle fascists"... thats a new one.

OOOH MAN, Those FASCIST cyclists really get me ANGRY, ARRRGGH!

Divided we stand....

Originally posted by Silvertrowel


I watched the vid. What cycle lane? I didnt see any cycle lane.

=
ukcyclerules.com...

Both lanes on the road are cycle path's.

The bus drivers actions are the effects of road rage. there's no conspiracy here

Originally posted by TrueInstinct
Bus driver shouldn't have got that aggressive, but the idiot cyclist should have moved over rather than being right in the centre of the lane.

Take up a lane with a bike down here and you'll get abuse from most motorists.

Why is the cyclist an idiot? Cyclists have right of way in the UK, they are allowed to swerve etc, you have to give them correct distance. Obviously you are one of 'those' cyclist haters.

Originally posted by andersensrm
Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of bad drivers out there too, and that needs to be addressed, but it ain't a one sided problem, and those that think it is, are just as bad as anyone who fights for unequal rights. Its called SHARING the road, not dominating it. Bikes don't get to dominate, neither do cars, they both have to SHARE the road, thats equal rights.

IMHO most people driving out there, don't have a clue what they're doing. I think our tests need to be much harder, and when you hit 70, you need a test every 2 years from then on out.

Man you need to learn the UK law, cyclists have right of way!

Cyclists can be annoying sometimes, but that was a bit too much