The Driver vs. Bicyclist Fight is Way More Violent in England

Originally posted by Ixtab
reply to post by ANOK

 

Even if cyclists were to pay VED, in reality because of the way VED is calculated, you'd actually be giving the cyclists refunds, and big ones at that. The amount of VED levvied on a vehicle, is determined by the amount of CO2 generated by its engine. Still want to charge VED to cyclists and end up putting money in their pocket? Fine by me.

Fair point.

Now all you need is insurance and were good to go.

edit on 19-2-2012 by Ixtab because: (no reason given)

BTW it wasn't me who said that, too late to edit probably?

You have insurance in case YOU hit someone else when you drive a vehicle capable of killing someone.

Why does a cyclist need insurance, to pay for a scratch in your paint work?

It's all about the money though isn't it? You want someone riding a very small self powered, clean, relatively safe vehicle, to pay the same amount as someone does for the privilege of driving a mechanized vehicle that's dirty, and dangerous, and insanely large for one person?

There is a word for that? Hmm, oh yeah, well two words, institutionalized insanity.

I would have less of an issue with cyclists if they obeyed the traffic laws as they are supposed to do when riding on the roads. I see them all the time blowing through stop signs, going on and off the sidewalks, weaving in and out of traffic, and many other things.

In many instances cyclists bring driver anger on themselves. I say this because I ride a bicycle; I do so in safe ways and obey the traffic laws as they are supposed to be obeyed. Not only because that is what I am supposed to do but for my own safety as well.

Raist

Originally posted by ANOK
Not sure of the law there but where I live, in the US, cyclists are allowed full use of the lane, regardless of traffic.

A friend of mine was killed a few years ago by a truck that did the same thing as that buss driver.



Driving a vehicle makes you impatient, and gives you a false sense of superiority and safety.

I do agree. I admit, it is a personal pet peeve of mine when a biker is riding in the street when there is a sidewalk right next to them, but they have every right to be in the street. I think it just bugs me because so many drivers do get bent out of shape and do stupid things that end up hurting the biker. So, I guess my pet peeve comes from actually being concerned for there safety, if that makes sense.

And to be fair, some places even have laws where bikes are not allowed on the sidewalk.So I don't gripe and I most certainly would never dream of hurting them or even complaining to them. They have every right to be there. At least here in Texas.

Truly sorry to hear about your friend.That's just not right at all.

I'm not sure I would want to be a cyclist in London, it looks like a death wish, dodging big red buses and black cabs. London isn't a very cycle friendly city, but so many people do it, most of my friends ride to avoid using the tube. But your far more likely to die on your bike than the tube.

More recently, ghost bikes in London have been installed by friends of the fallen cyclist (in the case of Antony Smith) and the Greenwich Cyclists (in the case of Lennard Woods).

ghostbikes.org...

I would like to add that my town has recently added a few lanes just for bicycles. This helps a great deal as some of these areas have hills or turns which makes it safer for both parties. The lanes are clearly marked with stripes and signs so people know where they are.

What really gets me though is the carelessness I see many cyclists taking on rural roads. It is as if they think people driving the speed limit can stop on a dime when they come around a corner or going over a hill. Of course the driver has their part to watch but the cyclist also has their part in that they should be able to hear approaching traffic. Many are using MP3 players and cannot hear cars coming up behind them. Also it would be nice if they were courteous in areas with limited sight distance and move over when someone comes up in behind them allowing the faster moving vehicle to proceed.

Raist

I think the biker instigated it, but
that bus driver HAD NO RIGHT
in any sense to ever do that..

If that guy would of died that bus driver
would of been on the hook for murder..

Even if a bicyclists pisses me off i have no right
to hit them with my vehicle..

Shrug it off, some people really are looking
to get hit so they can sue...

Some cyclists have taken to wearing helmet cams in case they get into accidents.

Originally posted by Ixtab
If cyclists paid road tax and had insurance I could accept there presence on the road, but they have neither so should not in anyway be allowed on the road.

Sorry if that offends any campaigners for cyclists rights.

Toss all ideas of money and banks out the window. They're illegal slave systems, no matter how entrenched the system is.

Nonetheless, irregardless of any opinion you have, bicyclists have legal right to ride on the road, and they're not allowed on the sidewalk though I certainly understand why they resort to that at times.

No matter what your opinion, what you think, whatever mood your in, even if the bicylist is verbally assaulting you, you do not ever have the right to harm anyone, and its ILLEGAL to harm anyone, and its attempted MURDER to swerve a bike in rage.

reply to post by Ixtab


NO we don't want to see any more assinine government charges for anything that is our soveriegn rigth, ie, and that is just about everything including travel.

Grow up.

Only government stooges would ask for more money from citizens.

Just to add an opinion..

In the UK its illegal for a cyclist over a certain age to be cycling on the footpath. I think the age is 14, but not sure here. Thats the law. However...

When faced with numpty, aggressive drivers, can you really blame them?

Originally posted by Ixtab
If cyclists paid road tax and had insurance I could accept there presence on the road, but they have neither so should not in anyway be allowed on the road.

Sorry if that offends any campaigners for cyclists rights.

I tend to agree, especially when there are trails and sidewalks that the biker can use. Now granted I know it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, but I say that shouldn't be. Also there's a road near to where I live, where bikers always like to ride there bikes. The problem is, is the road is a two lane road going along the side of a mountain, with no shoulder. There is no way to pass a bike, if he gets in front of you. There are tons of paved trails, so you can get anywhere the road would take you, on the trail. In fact I've timed it, and you can actually get there faster on the bike on the trail, than you can in the car on the road.

reply to post by PhoenixOD

Perhaps cyclists should receive the same rights as motorists when they pay the same level of costs as we have extorted out of us.

reply to post by nake13


They already DO have the same rights. Sorry.

Oh, except that they can't cycle on motorways. Now thats an idea. Lets start a cyclists for motorways campaign.

Originally posted by andersensrm

I tend to agree, especially when there are trails and sidewalks that the biker can use. Now granted I know it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, but I say that shouldn't be.

Oh yes, let's just shift our inconvenience into more danger for pedestrians.

Real smart idea.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by andersensrm

I tend to agree, especially when there are trails and sidewalks that the biker can use. Now granted I know it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk, but I say that shouldn't be.

Oh yes, let's just shift our inconvenience into more danger for pedestrians.

Real smart idea.

Oh man bike watch out!!!!!! they are extremely dangerous I know. I ridden past many people on the sidewalk, no problems.

ETA
In fact, it is probably more dangerous to be a bike on the road, then a pedestrian with bikes on a sidewalk. No argument here, unless you want to argue how we've all become so pu$$y that we can't even ride next to people on a bicycle.

Originally posted by nake13
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

Perhaps cyclists should receive the same rights as motorists when they pay the same level of costs as we have extorted out of us.

They have rights the same anyway. And its a crime to try and kill someone. PERIOD.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by ANOK
Not sure of the law there but where I live, in the US, cyclists are allowed full use of the lane, regardless of traffic.

A friend of mine was killed a few years ago by a truck that did the same thing as that buss driver.



Driving a vehicle makes you impatient, and gives you a false sense of superiority and safety.

I do agree. I admit, it is a personal pet peeve of mine when a biker is riding in the street when there is a sidewalk right next to them, but they have every right to be in the street. I think it just bugs me because so many drivers do get bent out of shape and do stupid things that end up hurting the biker. So, I guess my pet peeve comes from actually being concerned for there safety, if that makes sense.

And to be fair, some places even have laws where bikes are not allowed on the sidewalk.So I don't gripe and I most certainly would never dream of hurting them or even complaining to them. They have every right to be there. At least here in Texas.

Cyclists on the side-walk creates a danger for pedestrians so that is not the solution.

The solution lies with the drivers themselves, no one else. The attitude has to change, especially in cities, that drivers have more rights than other road users, cyclists, pedestrians, animals, whatever. We all have the right to travel. If the state chooses to cover the land with paved roads, then we have no choice but to use those roads. Just because someone chooses to use a motorized vehicle it should not effect other peoples choice of transport and their right, within the law, to use it to travel. The problem lies with the attitude of car drivers, period. If you want cyclists out of your way, then petition the state to build cycling lanes.

But nooo, people want to just deny others their liberty because they feel entitled, for whatever reason, to feel superior and some kind of victim, because whatever they're doing is far more important than what you're doing.

Driving a car just makes it easy for people to be an ass to those who are not. Horrible invention lol. They should be banned from cities. 800+ pedestrians killed a year by cars in cross-walks in my city, that's about 8x the amount of murders. I have been hit myself twice, one hit and run, and one that ended up paying, or his companies insurance did. Gangs are not what you have to be careful of in cities, it's everyone who drives a vehicle. If criminals were forced to take out insurance, and pay taxes, I'm sure the murder rate would rise.

Truly sorry to hear about your friend.That's just not right at all.

Thanx mate but no probs it was years ago, more of a work friend anyway, he was a fellow bike messenger just earning his bread.

reply to post by PhoenixOD

So should cyclists have the same rights as drivers on the road?

They have more rights on the road than car drivers and rightly so....

reply to post by ANOK


I want to see all the evidence that biking on the sidewalk is so dangerous. I'd argue that it isn't. I've done it many a times, and no one ever got even close to being hurt. Its absolutely ridiculous. You have every right to get on your bike and ride on the road, but if there is a shoulder thats where you should be, you shouldn't be in the middle of the lane, blocking drivers because you want to show how you have rights on the road as well.

Originally posted by purplemer

They have more rights on the road than car drivers and rightly so....

Yes!

They should have more rights.

The most vulnerable on the road should be given the most consideration. Pedestrians are the most vulnerable and all other road users should be aware of them, not the other way around. Motorized vehicles should be aware of anyone who they have the possibility of maiming or killing very easily.

Is it that people really don't care anymore unless it's their pocket it effects? So I run someone over, that's what insurance is for ain't it? That's what I got from my first hand experience of getting hit by a company driver not paying attention. A tip, if you hit someone, doing all you can to weazle out of it, and not making inquiries into the health of your victim, does not look good for you in a compensation trial. You can't get out of it, and it only makes you look worse which just costs you more. Even if the pedestrian, or cyclist, is at fault the result will be 50% your fault. No matter what you should be able to stop to avoid hitting someone, if you can't then you are not driving defensively. The only time that would not apply is if they are not supped to be where they are, like a cyclist on a highway/motorway.