"180" Movie - A Few Minutes that may change your mind about Abortion

reply to post by SubAce


This guy in this video is moron, why? eg: 15 yr old girl, no father, parents drug addicts,knows she couldnt give baby up for adoption because of her heart ... only 8 weeks no heart beating no consciousness. It wouldnt even know it had lived geez not hard. 2. baby heart beating, loving family,full support,no problem. Pretty simple really

reply to post by addygrace

Although ironically, if you kill a pregnant lady on the way to the abortion clinic, you would be charged with a double homicide.

Only in some states, and it depends on the trimester.

I have yet to see a good argument why killing mindless life should be wrong in any way, regardless of the order of nucleotides in its DNA.

Killing a human life in itself is not wrong. Thats a simplification, which is very useful, but breaks down in some border cases (like Newtons laws vs, relativity).
What is in fact wrong is killing a human mind, and we protect human life only because its required for the mind to exist. Cogito ergo sum. You are your mind.
Thats why killing embryos before 5th month (before brainwaves appear) and also killing braindead (but biologically alive) humans is not wrong at all. Thats why modern definition of medical death of a person is braindeath, not biological death. No mind, no victim, no crime.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Very well stated. No one seems to even mention over population when it comes to the abortion issue. Do 'some' misguided folks, due to their religious programming, think that their God enjoys our experience of overpopulation, over use and depletion of resources, and the woes of starvation? Also, why do many of these same Christians support our many wars throughout history? Isn't war about killing? How do they justify it, and if they truly do not, why are they not as passionate about ending (and never getting involved in) the wars America fights? How can one justify the practice of medicine, at all, as it may be God's will for someone to die or be in pain? The way I see it, according to the Ten Commandments it states simply, "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Notice, (especially all of you folks who love to take the Bible literally) that it does not state what you should not kill. It just says not to do it. Unfortunately, no matter if you are a hardcore vegan, or a rip and tear omnivore, one has no choice but to kill to eat. So, understanding all of this, the answer is quite simple:Christians should stop eating, immediately. That would take a big chunk of the population out, allowing more resources for everyone 'left behind', therefore curbing many abortions that are happening due to parents not being able to afford children, and since the Christians are no longer disobeying the 6th commandment, they can go to heaven with a clear slate. See? Everybody wins. Your thoughts? LOL

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

1)again, for the thousanth time, no one is claiming it isn't life. You all keep jumping to this, but NO ONE is claiming it. Empty rhetoric.

Ummm HELLO! Knock knock is anyone home? YOU have stated twice that science disagrees with me when I argue that life begins at conception. Maybe you should clarify your point or simply admit that you're wrong.

Originally posted by Maslo
I have yet to see a good argument why killing mindless life should be wrong in any way, regardless of the order of nucleotides in its DNA.

Newton, Einstein, Plato, Da Vinci, Ford, Tesla, Franklin, Darwin, Hawking, you, me, and everyone else started as "mindless life".

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Maslo
I have yet to see a good argument why killing mindless life should be wrong in any way, regardless of the order of nucleotides in its DNA.

Newton, Einstein, Plato, Da Vinci, Ford, Tesla, Franklin, Darwin, Hawking, you, me, and everyone else started as "mindless life".

Newton, Einstein, Plato, Da Vinci, Ford, Tesla, Franklin, Darwin, Hawking, you, me, and everyone else started as sperm and egg. Should be protect sperm and eggs as a person?

It doesnt follow from protecting mind that we should also protect mere precursors to mind as an actuality. Otherwise even contraception would be murder.

Originally posted by Maslo

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by Maslo
I have yet to see a good argument why killing mindless life should be wrong in any way, regardless of the order of nucleotides in its DNA.

Newton, Einstein, Plato, Da Vinci, Ford, Tesla, Franklin, Darwin, Hawking, you, me, and everyone else started as "mindless life".

Newton, Einstein, Plato, Da Vinci, Ford, Tesla, Franklin, Darwin, Hawking, you, me, and everyone else started as sperm and egg. Should be protect sperm and eggs as a person?

It doesnt follow from protecting mind that we should also protect mere precursors to mind as an actuality. Otherwise even contraception would be murder.

If only I had saved all the sperm from my whole life, I bet I could make a fortune at the sperm bank!

reply to post by Maslo


Sperm and egg do not have full human DNA. A full human DNA that grows into a person begins at conception.

This is no different than when people said black people were apes and not humans. They just strip the humanity away from people who are inconvenient. By defining the unborn as inhuman they feel justified in killing them for convenience.

reply to post by 547000

Sperm and egg do not have full human DNA. A full human DNA that grows into a person begins at conception.

DNA is not what gives us value, its just a worthless string of chemicals. And potential to be a person in the future is not enough.

This is no different than when people said black people were apes and not humans. They just strip the humanity away from people who are inconvenient. By defining the unborn as inhuman they feel justified in killing them for convenience.

I dont define them as inhuman at all. It is human, and it is alive. It is human life.

Its just that human life without mind does not deserve protection, and it is not wrong at all to kill it.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

again, science, and the supreme court, completely disagree with you.

You mean "science-fiction"... So called "scientists" who are behind the AGW scam also call their BS science but it isn't...

ANYONE can write a dozen papers and claim whatever they want...

Heck we have had scientists claiming that black people are less smart than white people... Do you believe in santa claus still as well?...

Originally posted by eatbliss


Very well stated. No one seems to even mention over population when it comes to the abortion issue. Do 'some' misguided folks, due to their religious programming, think that their God enjoys our experience of overpopulation, over use and depletion of resources, and the woes of starvation?
...

Overpopulation according to whom?... environlunatics who want to decimate the entire population because they think their Goddess Gaia wants them to do so?...

This has NOTHING to do with any God or Goddess in my book, and I am not talking about any sacred books...

BTW, your masters want to sequester atmospheric CO2 which will lower harvests worldwide which will cause mass starvation worldwide and environlunatics like yourself are falling behind them believing every word they say and postrating to everything they say even though they are lying through their teeth...

Overpopulation is the EXCUSE by the elites to get more control and to decimate as many people as they can so they can control us easier...

I cannot believe that in the 21st century, there are still people (men, mostly) that feel they have the right, via the government, to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body. Right wing religious nuts are doing everything in their power to steamroll the political process to force their agenda on everyone else.

Keep your mythology and fairy tales out of government and ESPECIALLY out of a woman's body. It is frightening that you think you have the right to tell a woman what she must do inside her own person.

Originally posted by Leonidas
...
Keep your mythology and fairy tales out of government and ESPECIALLY out of a woman's body. It is frightening that you think you have the right to tell a woman what she must do inside her own person.

How about you follow the word of your mother, and father and do everything they say, after all they own you according to the likes of you...

People without any valid arguments are the only ones claiming this has anything to do with religion or politics...

A fetus IS NOT PART OF A WOMAN'S BODY... It is an evolving INDIVIDUAL... something the likes of you can't understand because your masters tell you otherwise in their continuous attempt to devalue human life, and people like you are falling for it...

here's the thing with the abortion debate... like so many other contentious issues, there are NO EASY ANSWERS. i think it truly highlights the reality of moral subjectivity, and that often the only method by which deep understanding of a particular issue can be reached is by direct experience itself. perspective is paramount. i speak from experience.

seven years ago, i had an abortion at 17. to this day, i don't have any regrets - and more than anything, i'm grateful that i was in a position to make the ultimate decision. several people were affected by the situation and my subsequent decision, but no one more so than myself.

morally, i don't think that the tired argument of "is it murder or not?" is sufficient. it's not just about that! i've developed into quite a spiritual person over the years, and yes, the thought of abortion makes me sad. thinking of all the women who have had to wrestle with what to do with an unwanted pregnancy, the stress, the sadness of extinguishing a potential life, the internal moral debate, the loneliness - more than anything, it just elicits more sympathy (well, empathy, in my case!) for these women.

however, the debate over abortion isn't just about potential life, or killing babies, or whatever. it's about the freedom to make what very often is a sad decision (to abort), which, in my opinion, trumps everything else. I WAS THE ONE who didn't have the choice NOT to deal with the situation, whether my decision led to abortion, adoption, or parenting. had i continued, my boyfriend could have skipped out. my family could have deserted me. any number of things could have occurred that would have been beyond my control.

to have an abortion or to continue the pregnancy was the only choice i had, and it was mine. i am horrified by the thought of not having been able to make it for myself. do i wish that no woman would ever again have to decide on having an abortion? yes. do i think that the best approach to reducing the number of those that do lies in illegalization? F*CK. NO. talk about a logical fallacy... i won't bother getting deep into explaining why (black market procedures, anyone?)

want to decrease the number of abortions performed each year? comprehensive sex education. free, unrestricted access to condoms. make more non-sexualized forms of entertainment and media available to adolescents and teens. promote an educational and societal system that fosters knowledge, wisdom, a respect and appreciation for humanity and immaterial, non-ego sources of self-esteem and integrity. promote community and interconnectedness. stop the hypocrisy and finger-pointing judgment that occurs when discussing controversial issues.

but not through legislation. the ones that suffer will be the women who lose the ability to make a choice that primarily, and sometimes exclusively, affects themselves and their bodies.

Originally posted by jewdiful
...
want to decrease the number of abortions performed each year? comprehensive sex education. free, unrestricted access to condoms. make more non-sexualized forms of entertainment and media available to adolescents and teens. promote an educational and societal system that fosters knowledge, wisdom, a respect and appreciation for humanity and immaterial, non-ego sources of self-esteem and integrity. promote community and interconnectedness. stop the hypocrisy and finger-pointing judgment that occurs when discussing controversial issues.

but not through legislation. the ones that suffer will be the women who lose the ability to make a choice that primarily, and sometimes exclusively, affects themselves and their bodies.

So condoms aren't cheap enough that now we also have to pay for everyone's condoms?...

Do you not understand that there is NOTHING free in this world and somehow these things you mention have to be paid off?...

First of all the majority of teens are not going to care for any spiritual revival of any kind and they are going to continue doing whatever the hell they want.

Did that life that was inside you really belong to you? Was it truly your decision to end that life before it had the chance to decide what it wanted?

You see, you say you become sad when thinking about it, but still you are devaluing what is a human life.

Couldn't you have put on a condom?

Weren't you taught at school sex-ed and what could happen if you had unprotected sex?

Teens are taught sex-ed, and they know about condoms, yet a majority of them don't use them just because they think "it is only one time it is not going to happen to me", or they make some other excuse.

I am sorry if I sound rude, but your spiritual revival really has done nothing to make you understand that that fetus was a human life, a developing individual who never got the chance to experience life because you decided that he/she was part of your body and it was ok to kill him/her.

Can i call for this thread to be closed?

This whole thread is offencive in my opinion.. its all too unsensitive.
OP Dont wish the best for you at all.. People have abortions are not murdering other humans.
Complete biggoted Fool...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Sooooo nothing ever happens unwanted, or by accident eh? Or by force? Do you eve read what you put up? Yo ignore the fact that under certain circumstances it should bot be taken away as an option, no way no how and no-one should have the right to determine that except the person affected.

Your diatribe has not been backed up at all it is just a lot of "the government lies, scientists lie" whining...care to provide sources that aren't prolife.org or something that is determinately Pro Life for sources?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Leonidas
...
Keep your mythology and fairy tales out of government and ESPECIALLY out of a woman's body. It is frightening that you think you have the right to tell a woman what she must do inside her own person.

How about you follow the word of your mother, and father and do everything they say, after all they own you according to the likes of you...

People without any valid arguments are the only ones claiming this has anything to do with religion or politics...

A fetus IS NOT PART OF A WOMAN'S BODY... It is an evolving INDIVIDUAL... something the likes of you can't understand because your masters tell you otherwise in their continuous attempt to devalue human life, and people like you are falling for it...

edit on 17-2-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

***********

Ok, I'll use small words, try to keep up.

1. Where in my statement does it say that parents own their children?

2. If a fetus is not part of a woman's body how long would an undeveloped fetus survive outside her?

3. Only government or religious organizations have claimed the right to regulate a woman's reproductive system. Or are you advocating roaming gangs of random citizens to enforce your will on pregnant woman,

4. It is perfectly clear how you came to be so misguided. You made at least three sweeping generalizations that have no foundation in fact, nor evidence in my original post. I know people like you don't like to listen to opinions you disagree with, but if you are going to be part of the conversation, try and understand it first.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by SubAce

 

Many of you who are and those who you know who are pro-choice have no moral backing for their standing, but rather have it because of what they have been trained to believe because of society in general.

well, i see you're still learning. although you've got quite a ways to go.

do tell, how does pro-CHOICE equate to pro-abortion ???
are you foolish enough to think pro-choice ppl favor abortion or is that just the propaganda you absorb? did the choice part confuse you?

a suggestion while you're still learning, talk to those who have experience with these things rather the propaganda driven society that appears to be training you. cheers.

Simple logic. Pro life is against abortion. Pro choice says that If the baby is butchered, or is not butchered it is ok either way. If one is opposed to the pro life position, than you must be for the death of infants. If you are not pro abortion, than why are you not pro life?

Sad state our society is in. Reading some of these illogical non thought out posts is quite revealing. There is a lot of speculation being thrown around as fact without a shred of evidence, ie the fetus isn't conscious, it's not a person, they don't feel pain etc. Erring on the side of life preservation goes out the window simply so persons can live a life of responsibility free promiscuity, or reducing ones financial burden. As for the Christian response on page 1, perhaps you should watch the video the silent scream. You will then see a live sonogram of the horror of what occurs during an abortion, and how the "non human" reacts to preserve its life. Maybe then you will realize how foolish it is to gently respond to these people as opposed to yelling you are murdering an infant!