"180" Movie - A Few Minutes that may change your mind about Abortion

When we made that tough choice it hurt her soul more than I ever would have imagined. It's a year later now, and she's forgiven me, and we even got back together (I did some other bad things that hurt her). But seriously, at embryo-fetus stage, what's gonna be hurt besides a few feelings? Did the imbroglio-fetus already have a bio magnetic field/soul/tachyon field? Was the baby consciously aware using a brain of what was happening to it?

We made our choice, so with me following Christ and her going with her wiccan past/pagan root...these will remain questions until we die.

I don't know if abortion is right or wrong, but I know if you're gettin some you better damn well be ready for a condom to break.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by SubAce

 

Question: when is it ok to kill a baby in the womb?

Answer: any time before the baby develops consciousness.

If you think the moment the egg and sperm fuse that Human consciousness is spawned, you are just naive.

Okay friend, please enlighten us as to when an embryo becomes possessive of consciousness then.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


The laws of our society tell others how to live. Example: Some people think it should be lawful to have more than one spouse. There are laws against it. Some people think it is acceptable to take others' property; there are laws against stealing. Some people think it is their right to defame a person's character; there are laws against this. Because we can never agree on everything, society works by passing laws. You say that telling others how to live is the lowest level of morality. Those laws tell others how to live and what they can and can't do; we may not like it, but that's the way it is. This person in the video is not trying to force anyone to do anything. He's making an argument that abortion is murder and that if enough people change their minds and their votes in the future things will be different. He's making an argument--like everyone on this site does about many things. Now, I don't like his method, but he does have a right to make an argument about this topic and ask people to think about this when they cast their votes for leaders in the future.

This video does not change the fact that no matter what my views are..... I HAVE NO RIGHT to force my views and beliefs on others , this is and always will be a personal choice ...I myself feel that it is not right to use abortion as birth control but in this world there are so many situations that can arise, I would not want my wife to have a child if she was raped for example .Or lose a daughter because she dies giving birth when were told her life was at risk , just the same however should a child die because said person couldnt control there urges ???..SO what kind of human would i be to think that i can place my personal views on every person and there situations ..

reply to post by SubAce


Your video did nothing to change my mind, this is just another anti-abortion fail thread. Way to go on your originality.

Epic video
"Who's Adolf Hitler?"
"Eehh, some actor?"

You should start your posts with "I'm American" as warning.
Silly sheeple. Their school-memorized and TV-programmed meanings are utterly worthless.

Woman needs a man to tell her what to think. If you know a woman you know it's true. And a combination of
American + woman
has to be something
very special

If you don't want a baby -
don't make IT!

The government has no place inside a woman's body.

And the OP is being disingenuous when he says his views are not informed by religion, as evidenced by his Scripture based comments here.

The religious right is fighting hard to drag America back to the 18th century and is trying desperately to subvert the political process to do it.

Keep your fantasy based fairy tales to yourself and leave women alone. Your willful ignorance of reality has no place in the 21st century.

I'm not religious in the lest, though I don't believe in killing (in less in self-defense, and or assisted suicide) and all I see the arguments for abortion as a justification to kill. Another thing is science doesn't agree with abortion as this as nothing to do with science. Its a philosophical question not a logical one. When we debate this issue were debating wither if this is okay in our society and morally justifiable?

As a rights issue, why is it okay for a women to murder if it inconvenience her, but I can't kill the person in front of me in the coffee shop, who can't make a decision because they are inconveniencing me? How come a women only has a choice in wither or not to keep the child, even though it takes two to tango?

And before anyone says I just want to turn women into human incubators, no I don't. Women can do everything men can do and more. They also got the crap end of the deal for a good number of years and the crap end when it comes to gender. However I also believe if you don't want a child, there is contraceptives and birth control and yes I know that sometimes fail.

Now before we get into the "whats the difference between, contraceptives and abortion" its because you're physically killing a human body.

Now the whole consciousness debate. Exactly when does a fetus develop a consciousness? Some will say "well you don't remember anything from when you were in the womb!"

Well I say I don't remember anything when I was 0-4(rough estimation) was I okay to kill then because I wasn't developing memories? The whole thing is babies our cute, stupid, helpless little creatures who a parrot can outsmart and fetus are not so cute. No their impersonal, not even really there. We think of the developing child(as in fetus) as something that is coming not something that is physically here most of the time.

See what I mean about this being a philosophical question?

I can understand why people do get abortions, I don't have any malice towards them. I get it sucks having a kid that you weren't ready for or wanted. I was that kid, I took care of those kids(my bothers and sister, my dad loves bring in unwanted children in this world) but dammit I'm glad my mother did bend to my father and I'm here. Though on the flipside, if she did she might have been better off and I wouldn't have even existed I get that too.

I was on the pro-choice side for the longest time, but I sat down to really think about this. This is all just my opinion and all and abortion has already been justified in western society.

Oh and to tie up some loose ends, no I don't believe in the Death plenty at all. Abortion as a medical procedure to save the mothers life I'm fine with. When it comes to rape and incest though I still don't know where I fall.

I can't even bring myself to justify making a women carry the child like that. On the other hand It wasn't the child's fault.

This is a complex issue and these are complex questions and I don't fault either people or belittle either side on where they fall.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Bacteria os alive too, that doesn't make it human.

Oh no, I'm not letting you off that easy. I said that life begins at conception and you said that SCIENCE disagrees with me. I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion.

That fact is... at the moment of conception, that baby begins to grow. Now humor me if you will, and name one thing on this planet that physically grows, yet isn't alive.

No, you said, and I quote:

Even before consciousness, it's still a baby!

again, science, and the supreme court, completely disagree with you.

What are you an editor for Fox News or something? You're completely disregarding the second half of my comment (that life begins at conception...), and you're trying to convince me and everyone else that science disagrees with me.
Hmmm I think maybe you just have a problem with the word "baby", so let me rephrase my comment to suit your political correctness...

Even before consciousness, it's still a human life. Life begins at conception... period.

There is that better? Now can you tell me how science disagrees with me, or are you just going to keep dodging the question and spreading disinformation?

Btw, your bacteria comment was just plain ignorant.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by addygrace
Killing babies is wrong.

There should be no choice involved.

People claiming masturbation is a form of abortion are being ignorant to the fact of life needing an egg from a female, and sperm from a male.

Why should a woman have the choice to kill her unborn baby because it is an inconvenience?

If a person were to punch a woman in the stomach while she is pregnant, and the baby died, they would get charged with murder. Either the baby is a life or it isn't. It sounds like women are making excuses on why they get to decide the fate of a life.

People act like there is some grey area here. It's clear we should be saving the lives of these babies. But, as the video shows, getting involved in someone else's murderous whims are what a cowardly society does not do.

Same tired arguments.
1)Not all abortion is about convenience. Nice try though.
2)A woman cannot choose to kill an unborn child. They can choose to abort a fetus.
3)Someone else choosing to terminate the pregnancy is in no way comparable to a mother choosing to. Totally irrelevant, yet it seems to be another of the "go-to" arguments for the anti-choicers
4)No one is condoning murder. More propaganda.

So, Ill pose this to you, and all the other anti-choicers in this thread, again, although I expect it to be ignored as it has so far:

You have established your opinion on the matter. Why do you think it is your right to force that opinion on others?

First of all, the fetus is a life. We even recognize this when someone besides the mother harms the fetus. They can be charged with murder. I don't see how the whole thing changes when a woman decides instead of say...the father. The reason this is relevant is because pro choicers claim the baby isn't life. So if the baby isn't life, then killing a non-life cannot be murder.


As far as your question goes, I'll answer this way; Because we live in a society of people where laws are required, we have to make sure those laws are just. We can't have a double standard based on who is doing the killing. Women across this country are killing their babies at an astronomical rate. This is troubling. How is it fair that a mother gets to decide if her child should live or not? What circumstances would justify this?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
So, I'm going to pose this one more time, just so that it is clear that all the anti-choicers in this thread are avoiding the question:

It is well established that many of you are dead-set against abortion. What I want to know is why those people think it is their place to try and force others, or even convince them, that they should not have aan abortion, or that they should not be allowed to?

I am pro-choice, and would NEVER try to convince someone that they should have an abortion that they do not want to have. Why do others feel the need to try and force people to not have them when they want to?

I'll gladly answer this. I feel that it's my place to try and convince people that abortion is wrong because the babies you condone killing will never get the chance to tell you themselves.

reply to post by Vaxar


Yes she should keep the baby. There is always the option of adoption.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Its appalling to see how many people on ATS advocate murder of an innocent life.

I thought DENY IGNORANCE was the motto.

1)again, for the thousanth time, no one is claiming it isn't life. You all keep jumping to this, but NO ONE is claiming it. Empty rhetoric.

2)I have answered the "but if someone kills a pregnant lady" argument multiple times.

3)women are not killing babies. They are having abortions.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Abortion = Murder. Human life starts at conception.

However much you would like to suppress this, you know deep down in your conscience its the truth.

God has given every one a purpose in life, what right have you got to take that away?

If a woman gets pregnant, that is due to her actions, and she has no right to terminate the life of that human.

If she is raped... Two wrongs do not make a right. There is always the option of adoption.

reply to post by FinalAccount2008


Abortion is a sin and you need to repent. Remember that the sin of abortion is no less forgivable than any other sin. Through faith in Christ, all sins can be forgiven (John 3:16; Romans 8:1; Colossians 1:14). A woman who has had an abortion, a man who has encouraged an abortion, or even a doctor who has performed one can all be forgiven by faith in Jesus Christ.

Jeremiah 1:5 tells us that God knows us before He forms us in the womb.

Psalm 139:13-16 speaks of God’s active role in our creation and formation in the womb.

Exodus 21:22-25 prescribes the same penalty death for someone who causes the death of a baby in the womb as for someone who commits murder.

This clearly indicates that God considers a baby in the womb to be as human as a full-grown adult. For the Christian, abortion is not a matter of a woman’s right to choose. It is a matter of the life or death of a human being made in God’s image (Genesis 1:26-27; 9:6).

Over 95 percent of the abortions performed today involve women who simply do not want to have a baby. Less than 5 percent of abortions are for the reasons of rape, incest, or the mother's health at risk. Even in the more difficult 5 percent of instances, abortion should never be the first option. The life of a human being in the womb is worth every effort to allow the child to be born.

Originally posted by Still

I asked what you were doing to help.

No you didn't. You asked me where me and my self righteousness were when that child needed me. You attacked my position with rhetorical questions and I appropriately responded with sarcasm.

Apparently it is being sarcastic online. I am sure there are suffering children everywhere so thankful for your concern. You care enough to type online but that is about it.

Deny ignorance... you know absolutely nothing about me, what I've accomplished, or how I live my life. So please do yourself a favor and refrain from making such idiotic assumptions.

Now do you really want to know what I'm doing to help or not?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

1)again, for the thousanth time, no one is claiming it isn't life. You all keep jumping to this, but NO ONE is claiming it. Empty rhetoric.

2)I have answered the "but if someone kills a pregnant lady" argument multiple times.

3)women are not killing babies. They are having abortions.

edit on 17-2-2012 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2012 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

If someone kills a "fetus", and is not the mother, they can be charged for murder. If a mother kills a fetus, she cannot be charged with murder. At least in the early stages.

I'm not talking about killing a pregnant lady.

Although ironically, if you kill a pregnant lady on the way to the abortion clinic, you would be charged with a double homicide.

Either the baby is a life or it isn't. What gives?

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by SubAce

 

Question: when is it ok to kill a baby in the womb?

Answer: any time before the baby develops consciousness.

If you think the moment the egg and sperm fuse that Human consciousness is spawned, you are just naive.

I totally agree with you there! Naive people, they can't see outside their own bubble

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

no human is killed with abortion

If it's not a human, then what is it? If it is human, then it's murder.