Why are some ATS members ignoring the obvious fact that Modern America is connected to Hitlers Nazi

reply to post by ofhumandescent

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

Or, in some cases, you can lead a fool to water, tell them that it is wine.....

Then they will drink it and think that they are drunk.

ETA: And if anyone thinks that I am referring to the OP with this statement...... They are just plain wrong.

Some points for clarification:

1. The US taught Germany the rules for corporatism via Standard Oil and the Rockefellers and this became IG Farben.

2. Germany and Hitler started out as Socialists, but the efforts to win the war drove them into the realm of fascist capitalism.

3. Bush and the other New Money types in the US Funded Hitler and Hitler booted out the Old Money Rothschilds of Europe over the bad deal from Versailles.

4. The Rothschild ran with their money to England and got Churchill on their side, then brought in Russia as ally for WWII.

5. The US took into the US a large number of ardent NAZIs to gain their knowledge and this was done via big banking's pal Allen Dulles, who became a US traitor and the first civilian director of the CIA. Dulles was highly connected with killing JFK.

5. After the war, the European Old Money reformed in Europe in 1954 as Bilderberg Conf. and copied the IG Farben corporate methods to push their global NWO agenda based upon the highly successful corporatism methods of Hitler's IG Farben.

6. UK's Victor Rothschild got Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, a former NAZI IG Farben person, to set up the Royalist's Old Money system as the Bilderbergs and also helped push for the CFR in the US. Bilderberg set up their NAZI like NW/7 or CIA group called PERMINDEX.

7. The US is controlled via the Corporation economic power based upon the NAZI IG Farben methods, and these Bilderberg alligned corporations and that fascist oriented money determines who is elected to office in the US.

8. The Israel factors keep entering the equation because the Rothschilds backed the Zionist games, via the UK's Lord Balfore deal, and they forced the UK to divide Palestine.

9. Divided Palestine is being used to drum up a war between the West and the Islamics for the Globalist Corporatism and Banking gang to gain a larger foothold to gain larger world ownership.

10. The central problem for capitalism vs communism is the issue of capitalism always grows too strong and runs the Govt via a Shadow style of Corporatism, and Communism keeps this evil dealings out by restricting ownership of land, minerals, and properties by the Corporate globalists and their bankers.

I think that captures the essential elements.

Some points for clarification:

1. The US taught Germany the rules for corporatism via Standard Oil and the Rockefellers and this became IG Farben.

2. Germany and Hitler started out as Socialists, but the efforts to win the war drove them into the realm of fascist capitalism.

3. Bush and the other New Money types in the US Funded Hitler and Hitler booted out the Old Money Rothschilds of Europe over the bad deal from Versailles.

4. The Rothschild ran with their money to England and got Churchill on their side, then brought in Russia as ally for WWII.

5. The US took into the US a large number of ardent NAZIs to gain their knowledge and this was done via big banking's pal Allen Dulles, who became a US traitor and the first civilian director of the CIA. Dulles was highly connected with killing JFK.

5. After the war, the European Old Money reformed in Europe in 1954 as Bilderberg Conf. and copied the IG Farben corporate methods to push their global NWO agenda based upon the highly successful corporatism methods of Hitler's IG Farben.

6. UK's Victor Rothschild got Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, a former NAZI IG Farben person, to set up the Royalist's Old Money system as the Bilderbergs and also helped push for the CFR in the US. Bilderberg set up their NAZI like NW/7 or CIA group called PERMINDEX.

7. The US is controlled via the Corporation economic power based upon the NAZI IG Farben methods, and these Bilderberg alligned corporations and that fascist oriented money determines who is elected to office in the US.

8. The Israel factors keep entering the equation because the Rothschilds backed the Zionist games, via the UK's Lord Balfore deal, and they forced the UK to divide Palestine.

9. Divided Palestine is being used to drum up a war between the West and the Islamics for the Globalist Corporatism and Banking gang to gain a larger foothold to gain larger world ownership.

10. The central problem for capitalism vs communism is the issue of capitalism always grows too strong and runs the Govt via a Shadow style of Corporatism, and Communism keeps this evil dealings out by restricting ownership of land, minerals, and properties by the Corporate globalists and their bankers.

I think that captures the essential elements.

Originally posted by KwisatzHaderach
Okay the fact that nobody has brought up is that these German Scientist, were forced to do what they did. Would any of you have put your home, loved ones, your life, at risk by denying the SS and the Fuhrer. The Gestapo where very, notorious about their actions if one declined.

Well, frankly i think to many people are focusing on just the scientists involved with rocketry, like van braun and i guess you can excuse van braun as a coward, who turned a blind eye to save his skin, but not all the scientists brought over were so clean.

I will give you three examples in the field of medicine;

source

Hubertus Strughold

Dr. Hubertus Strughold (June 15, 1898 – September 25, 1986) was a German doctor, Nazi, and prominent medical researcher during the early twentieth century. An emigre to the United States after World War II, he is also known as "The Father of Space Medicine".[1] He was the author of over 180 papers in the field of space medicine. In the 1990s, his wartime experiments on concentration camp prisoners were acknowledged and greatly diminished his reputation.

As the head of Nazi Germany's Air Force Institute for Aviation Medicine, Strughold participated in a 1942 conference that discussed "experiments" on human beings carried out by the institute. The experiments included subjecting inmates of the Dachau concentration camp to torture and death by being immersed in water, placed in air pressure chambers, forced to drink sea water and exposed to freezing temperatures.

source

Kurt Blome (31 January 1894, Bielefeld, Westphalia – 10 October 1969) was a high-ranking Nazi scientist before and during World War II. He was the Deputy Reich Health Leader (Reichsgesundheitsführer) and Plenipotentiary for Cancer Research in the Reich Research Council. In his autobiography, Arzt im Kampf (English: Physician in Struggle), Blome equated medical and military power in their battle for life and death.

Blome admitted that he had been ordered in 1943 to experiment with plague vaccines on concentration camp prisoners. He was tried at the Doctors' Trial in 1947 on charges of practicing euthanasia and conducting experiments on humans. Although acquitted, his earlier admissions were well known, and it was generally accepted that he had indeed participated in the experiments (there is evidence that Blome experimented with Sarin gas on Auschwitz prisoners).

source

Dr Walter Paul Emil Schreiber (21 March 1893 – 5 September 1970) was a German military officer and brigadier-general (Generalarzt) of the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht.

When journalist Drew Pearson publicized Schreiber's Nuremberg evidence in 1952, which showed he had assigned doctors to experiment on concentration camp prisoners and had made funds available for such experimentation, the negative publicity led the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency to arrange "a visa and a job for Schreiber in Argentina, where his daughter was living." On 22 May 1952 he was flown to Buenos Aires

Yeah, I don't know, maybe you can say van braun was coward and maybe the others too, but their actions should not have been excused and overlooked by the United States.

reply to post by groingrinder


Yes but that does not stop the fact that they were forced to do so. Also if your trying to imply that I dont know my history my great uncle ( by marriage) was Henirich Himmler, so I know more than most.

reply to post by prisoneronashipoffools


I'm not stating that they shouldnt have been tried for their crimes merely that fear releases inhibitions.
2nd line

Here's a question.....

What about all of the Jewish scientists that left Germany because Hitler came to power?

The ones that basically made the atomic bomb possible for the US.

You know, that dreaded atomic bomb, the one that I always see touted on this site as what defines the US as war criminals in WWII?

What does that make those Jewish scientists? Mass murderers, right? Co-conspirators, at least.

Those Jewish scientists must have been Nazis too, right? They joined the same evil country as the Paperclip scientists did!

Originally posted by Malcher
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

People are more aware today than they were in the ealry 40's. This is just common sense. More access to information today (an understatement) and things that could pass for normal is much more easily seen as abnormal. If Hitler gave a speech today like he did in the late 1930's and early 40s with the screaming, pounding on the podium and finger pointing people would think "this guy belongs in an institution". That is if you view it in a modern context.

From a sociological standpoint a modern analogy is to study groups of people submersed in hard drug lifestyles. After awhile what seemed abnormal becomes normal and it is just a transitional process and surrounding yourself with like minded people.

My personal belief is that if you take Adolf Hitler out of the equation then WW2 would never have happened. Sure he found a relative handful of people to comprise his inner circle but you can find those same people in any society.

I think it was a combination of Adolf Hitler and the fact that these people were so isolated, as were most or even all people at that time. Again it just goes back to the perception of what is normal and not what IS actually normal.

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

Well obviously people who learn form history or are aware of history still repeat it. That catch phrase is meant for dim wits.

I mean...there may be a smattering of truth to it but at the same time is very simplistic. Life is more complicated than a one line sound bite.

edit on 15-2-2012 by Malcher because: (no reason given)

I don't agree with you. The fact is that germany was not isolated, though they were removed from other regions of the world, they still had rapid communication with the rest of europe. News traveled rather fast, via telegraph and cables etc.

It wasn't isolation that was the problem but desperation. The economy of the wiemar republic collapsed, partly by having to pay the debt accrued from ww1 and the treaty of versailles. Their currency hyper inflated due to printing money to not only pay that debt, but to also bail out fat cat german industrialists that lost money in the war. In fact it hyper inflated so much that bread went from costing 1 mark in 1919 to costing 100,000 million marks by 1923. That is wheelbarrows of cash to buy the staples.

Now a screaming raving man pounding his fist and railing against the treasonous politicians who sold out the country by signing the treaty of versailles, may seem crazy to you, to the desperate starving people of germany it mirrored their anger and emotions perfectly. And when the same man began to promise to make germany great again, restore the economy and return jobs to the people, it is no surprise they rallied behind him and the party and gave them all the power they craved.

Many modern people think that the germans were just different or that there is no way it could happen again, but the sad truth is it easily could and just might. The global economy doesn't look that good, especially the economy of the US. And, I say this, if the US economy collapses and the currency hyper inflates from over printing to pay off debts and bail out more fat cat bankers, and the US citizens have to start rolling around wheelbarrows of greenbacks to pay for bread, then they will be desperate and ripe for the picking.

Then, if a leader stands up and stops using the pithy sound bites that will quickly lose connection with the people, and starts giving passionate speeches railing against the treasonous politicians who signed NAFTA and the GTA and destroyed our economy and begins to promise to bring the jobs back, stabilize the currency and make america great again, i would wager the american people just like the germans would give that leader all the power they want and all the power they need. They will be desperate enough themselves even to turn a blind eye to atrocity. It's a short and bleak fall from god bless the republic to sieg hiel. Just ask the germans they were a republic as well.

Originally posted by KwisatzHaderach
reply to post by prisoneronashipoffools

 

I'm not stating that they shouldnt have been tried for their crimes merely that fear releases inhibitions.
2nd line

That statement is true, but I also believe in personal accountability. If someone puts a gun in my hand and holds another to my head, ordering me to kill someone else, they would just have to shoot me or I would shoot myself. I understand most wouldn't but they shouldn't be excused if they choose to follow the order

reply to post by prisoneronashipoffools

Then, if a leader stands up and stops using the pithy sound bites that will quickly lose connection with the people, and starts giving passionate speeches railing against the treasonous politicians who signed NAFTA and the GTA and destroyed our economy and begins to promise to bring the jobs back, stabilize the currency and make america great again, i would wager the american people just like the germans would give that leader all the power they want and all the power they need. They will be desperate enough themselves even to turn a blind eye to atrocity. It's a short and bleak fall from god bless the republic to sieg hiel. Just ask the germans they were a republic as well.

Very hard to argue with any of this.

We are ripe for the picking.

reply to post by prisoneronashipoffools


I concur with your statement just pointing out different perspective's; and most scientist are cowards anyway, especially military scientist.

reply to post by WozaMeathed


I do not think this really belongs under general conspiracies because this sounds nearly insane. I have yet to see any evidence that would convince a large crowd of the general population.

I mean forgive me for not posting something to constructive but this sounds like you have no idea what you are talking about ... what so ever , the US must be Nazis because we took Nazi scientist to help give us technology that was more advanced than our own .... oh yeah .. that makes sense.

You must be a Nazi OP because you have ridden on jet powered aircraft and if you havnt no wonder you think the way you do you havnt gotten out of your back yard.

Originally posted by butcherguy
The same can be said of the Soviets....

russianspaceweb

airspacemag< br />
They captured equipment and engineers, just like we did.

That is true, but the scientists were used to teach Russian scientists then sent back home. In America even the guy who closed the hatch was nicknamed rampfuehrer, because of his German accent. Also Americas interest did not stop at the field of engineering. MK Ultra was basically continued nazi research.

Also you might want to look into were Hitlers funding came from to begin with.

Thanks to all those that have contributed for and against this thread.

Im sorry it's taking me a while to respond to your posts, but i will get to it, im still reading the articles and links that you have supllied.
(Im a slow reader and even slower at typing)


Here's a little more info about how the Bush family are connected to the Nazi's.

U.S. authors Webster G. Tarpley and Anton Cheitkin reveal in the recently published George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography that Prescott Bush (George W. Bush's grandfather) and other directors of the Union Banking Company (UBC) were Nazi collaborators.

Link to above quote,
www.rense.com...

Here's some more info

George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

Here's the link.
www.guardian.co.uk...

President Bush's grandfather was a director of a bank seized by the federal government because of its ties to a German industrialist who helped bankroll Adolf Hitler's rise to power, government documents show.


Prescott Bush (search) was one of seven directors of Union Banking Corp. (search), a New York investment bank owned by a bank controlled by the Thyssen family, according to recently declassified National Archives documents reviewed by The Associated Press.


Fritz Thyssen (search) was an early financial supporter of Hitler, whose Nazi party Thyssen believed was preferable to communism. The documents do not show any evidence Bush directly aided that effort. His position with Union Banking never was a political issue for Bush, who was elected to the Senate from Connecticut in 1952.

Read more:

www.foxnews.com...

So i still think that there IS a connection with Nazi's and the Modern USA..

Dude im like 2 days late but you must have read my mind lol! I just posted in another thread. The "shadow police" or whatever you call them are doing the same thing the SS were during the times of the 3rd reich. You are so right!

Originally posted by prisoneronashipoffools
Very interesting thread OP, but I wish you would have gone a little deeper down the rabbit hole so to speak.
Though you are right about the Nazi scientists being used by the US and Russia, I think you should of done research into Reinhard Gehlen and the role he played with OSS and later CIA it would have made your argument much stronger.

.

Yeah,,, I know i could and should have researched more on this before posting the thread and i will dig deeper on this subject, i just posted my thread in haste. Plus i knew that there would be members like yourself that would contribute more information.

The links that you have supplied are good and a disturbing read.

Especially this.

CIA and NAzi War Criminals

"The notion that they [CIA, Army Counterintelligence Corp, Gehlen organization] employed only a few bad apples will not stand up to the new documentation. Some American intelligence officials could not or did not want to see how many German intelligence officials, SS officers, police, or non-German collaborators with the Nazis were compromised or incriminated by their past service… Hindsight allows us to see that American use of actual or alleged war criminals was a blunder in several respects…there was no compelling reason to begin the postwar era with the assistance of some of those associated with the worst crimes of the war. Lack of sufficient attention to history-and, on a personal level, to character and morality-established a bad precedent, especially for new intelligence agencies. It also brought into intelligence organizations men and women previously incapable of distinguishing between their political/ideological beliefs and reality. As a result, such individuals could not and did not deliver good intelligence. Finally, because their new, professed 'democratic convictions' were at best insecure and their pasts could be used against them (some could be blackmailed), these recruits represented a potential security problem." (Note 3)

There is plenty of info and docs on Gehlen and his influence and connection with CIA. You should dig deeper OP.

Im going to keep digging, thanks for showing me another place to start another hole

Originally posted by Magnificient
reply to post by WozaMeathed

 

There's more involved in WW II than meats the eye. We went over to whip the devil, but we ended up bringing him home. The US had the world's highest moral standards before WW II, now look at us.

This is a GREAT post. Star. Its truly all coming down to God vs the Devil. No one seems to believe it lol but its gonna happen either way.

Originally posted by prisoneronashipoffools

The same can be said for ANY major world power throughout history. If you go digging for genocide you'll find it. Who honestly cares? Why are people on ATS so over dramatic? It's great to state facts and all, but to whine about it is another thing. Sometimes it seems like people here sit on the computer and think "gee, what can I complain about next?" Big deal we used some of their scientists. Einstein also helped the Nazis in WWII. They're scientists not the people in charge of the final solution.

reply to post by reaxi0n

 

No it is not insignificant especially when you get into the fact that the intelligence systems worked closely with Nazi's like Gehlen and they used the system to allow many war criminals to escape; many of which were part of the final solution.

It also shows a much more systematic and greater problem through out the intelligence community and global politics; the enemy of or enemy is our ally doctrine.

The fact is if you look at all the wars we have fought since Vietnam most have been with former "allies" of the us, allies that were aided by the CIA; the gulf war with Saddam Hussein; once our great ally while fighting Iran and suddenly our enemy, and the current war on terror, which is claimed to have been started by Osama bin Laden; our great ally when fighting the Russians in Afghanistan, but then our great enemy. The sad thing is because people like you think it's so irrelevant is the reason the US will continue to fight endless wars for ages to come, or until our nation collapses.

Even now, we are supporting anti socialist death squads in South America and supporting very violent and viscous warlords in Afghanistan. We will probably have wars with both of those groups in the future, as they continue to gain power from our support. The whole doctrine creates an endless problem...Stupid is, as stupid does I guess. Or the whole geopolitical game is just that; a game, and the US citizens primarily are the ignorant rubes used to foot the bill and shed the blood.

I wish i could have starred you more than once for posting that.

Originally posted by Magnivea

Originally posted by WozaMeathed
This thread is directed towards all those that dont believe that the modern America and it Military ARE connected with WW2 NAZI Germany.

Who exactly denies this?

I'm just going to go ahead and state the obvious... I'd bet whatever you would like that 99% of Americans on this site already know that.

Well mate i beg to differ. From what i have read on this site I dont believe many know at all. And any way whats wrong with refreshing people's memories?

Granted, I'm sure a lot of Americans don't know this, but this is old news for anyone into conspiracies at all. But if you're an American (or any other nationality for that matter) on ATS and have no idea what Project Paperclip is, you have not been around long.

Well mate not everyone here is as old as you and I. Some of these people on ATS are young and are new to the world outside of the MSM, and some wouldn't have read or heard about this.
So this is for them, for the young one's.

Von Braun even had a series of short Disney films.

Yeah i know and doesn't this photo just warm your heart.
Just shows how sick the US government is and it also shows a connection between the Nazi scientists and Walt Disney.
And it also shows that the USA government could blatantly parade Nazi's infront of you and you would sit back and say and do nothing as long as that Nazi was helping the USA.

Did you just stumble across this information and start a thread?

Yep Pretty much.

post somewhere that's not full of conspiracy theorists and you'd be doing a great service for the ignorant.

Judging from your reply there are many ignorant and arrogant people here on ATS and you seem to be one of them too.
So i think i fit in just fine.
Thanks for your reply.

Originally posted by reaxi0n
reply to post by prisoneronashipoffools

Just because we used the brilliant minds of Nazi SCIENTISTS.

Yeah they were some of the most brilliant murderous minds that the USA gave a war crime's pardon and a new life to.
Brilliant,,,,, just brilliant.

(most often forced to work by the Nazis),

Agreed, but
I just wonder how The USA government forced them to work for them.??????????
What do you think????????
Was it with Violence or a threat of a War crime's trial or was it just money..
Im betting it was all three.

does not mean we are controlled by NAZIS. What is with the delusion here?

No one mentioned controlled, i said CONNECTED.
See the difference?

Talk about delusional.