The TRUTH about Hell (May shock you...)

reply to post by jmdewey60


With the Holy Spirit's guidance one may rightly divide the Word of Truth.
Yes, agreed that there are literal and figurative translations in Rev.
However, this is not the only BOOK that speaks of Hell, JM. You all have your Bibles and books to go by- I'll stick with what I believe..
and again agree to disagree.

Good luck , everyone! My prayer would be that noONE would go to Hell...but then again God is a righteous Judge and He knows how to separate the wheat from the tares - HE knows best!

reply to post by SeekerLou

. . . agree to disagree. . .

Which is generous considering that the last thread we were discussing in, you gave me to the devil, if I remember right.
If you highlight my mini-profile to the left, I identify myself as a scholar of Revelation, whatever that means, so I am always looking at that book and right now I see it as describing something which is a done thing.
From the point of view of the people at that time, the Gospel had gone out to all the world.
Jesus offers us life and this is something not a secret and people can know it if they want to.
God dwells with us, 'in my Father's house there are many mansions.'
We are them.

Read 'To Hell and Back,' by Maurice Rawlings. And watch Howard Storm's video on youtube.

reply to post by symogums

I believe hell does exist but in a different more subliminal way than most. I see through the bibles eyes on some aspects and in the bible it does state that in hell it will feel like the soul is being ripped apart and when it dies it will come back to do it all over again. We live here on earth where not only do most people wake up and hate their existence because they have to work as slaves but they die and reincarnate to do it all over again. It is once we have learned our lesson that god chooses to open up the door and let those who finally understand in. There is no church in the wild. The owners of the vatican own america and england and the worst part about the pope is that he is keeping his eyes to the sky looking for extraterrestrials. This universe is infinite and the soul is too.

reply to post by Iason321

If you seek the truth, you will find it!

Do you believe that it is possible that there is no truth? Do you believe that you could one day be a god? As a Christian with an open mind, these are my serious questions for you. Could you believe that nothing exists?

reply to post by broahes


I think there is a truth.
Part of that truth would be that there is something which exists.
We don't have to be gods
and what we can be is similar enough to a god
that is good enough for who we are.

There is no such thing as nothing, that is what I think is true.
We might think we are not "real" because on a quantum level we see particles with spaces in between. One way to look at that is that what we call particles are just the detectable and measurable manifestations of our existence but what fills the spaces between those blips on the oscilloscope are just as real and full of substance as those blips we can put on a graph.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I asked more as a hypothetical. I'm still not sure what I believe.


I believe for example that our last thought is all of our existence. I'm just not sure what that means.

Well, we can say for sure that there was a concept of an afterlife within the OT, and that it wasn't particularly a "pleasant" place. Sheol, the word most often translated to hell means the grave or underworld. In comparison, the word Abaddon means place of destruction or underworld.

According to Proverbs 9:18:

"But he does not know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of Sheol."

The dead include anybody who has died.

Also the Rephaim. The Rephaim are the angels that sinned, the nephillim (giant clan), and their descendants the mighty kings and chiefs of the old.

"For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into sheol and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment" - Peter 2:4

"And they do not lie with the mighty, the fallen from among the uncircumcised, who went down to Sheol with their weapons of war, whose swords were laid under their heads, and whose iniquities are upon their bones; for the terror of the mighty men was in the land of the living." - Ezekial 32:27

Looking at this verse, we see that Sheol had fire

" Sheol, the barren womb, the land never satisfied with water, and the fire that never says, “Enough.”-Proverbs 30:16

The Proverbs are said to have been written by Solomon himself. That being said, Solomon was a pretty concise writer but maybe here he takes a metaphorical approach that is often misinterpreted.

"Sheol and Abaddon are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied." - Proverbs 27:20

The fire that never says enough and the place that is never full. These are two descriptions from the same book about Sheol, most likely what they're trying to describe is the magnitude and disparity of death. When you die, you go to sheol, a place where nobody remembers you and everybody must go here until judgment so I'd imagine the capacity to be limitless.

" What man can live and never see death? Who can deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah" - Ps. 89:48

Here is every instance of the word sheol in the OT: www.michaelsheiser.com...

So we can see that the OT did have a concept of Hell, but it was not everlasting. The Greeks really amplified or over exaggerated the meaning of sheol. In Greek translations the word Abaddon was actually personified to be a demon that rules over hell.

I don't know whether to take the OP seriously or not. His interpretation is ... in left field. He deliberately takes scripture and ignores everything around it as well as other verses that state hell is a very real place.

Here , ill post this one simple verse.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS.

(Matthew 25:41)

It is called!! The second death. The lake of fire , final judgment.

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I don think you understand scripture. Not ONLY do you have eternal separation from God , you also are in the fiery pit where it is the ONLY place God does not maintain his presence. Hell is without God and its for eternity.

If you don't want anything to do with God , then there is a place where you wont have anything to do with God. Hell. You are an Eternal spirit. Your soul does not die. Your body will , but your soul will remain. The only place your Soul can die , which it doesn't actually die , but is eternally condemned is Hell which is refered to as the 2nd death because you are without God in eternal torment forever and are forgotten.

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Ill just go ahead and post these. As its very obvious , hell is a very real place.

Revelation 14:11, And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night...

Revelation 20:12, 15, And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life...And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 10:28, And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 12:5, But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which AFTER he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Matthew 18:8, 9 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Matthew 25:46, And these shall go away into EVERLASTING punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

II Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with EVERLASTING destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

Isaiah 66:24, And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be abhorring unto all flesh.

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Do you also forget this story!?

22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

The Rich man has yet to face the second death , which is the final judgment. Hell is probably a cake walk compared to what the Lake of Fire (The 2nd death) is going to be like.

reply to post by milkyway12

It is called!! The second death. The lake of fire , final judgment.

Those are in Revelation and are symbolic
of the idea of the death of death,
and not literal
or describing hell
but the end of hell.

reply to post by jmdewey60


The 2nd death is symbolic because you are already dead. It is simply stating that you have faced final judgment and will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity and forgotten as you face an eternal free fall of fire and the worst part is that you are without God. There is no hope of rescue , nothing but pain and torment without the hope of God.

Man that is scary. I couldn't imagine. I know one thing for sure , if Jesus is there ill definitely be meeting him at the pearly gates but if it manages to some how all actually be a fairy tale ... i lose absolutely nothing. I much rather be safe than sorry. Jesus i do choose.

reply to post by milkyway12

. . . nothing but pain and torment without the hope of God.

That is some speculation and not something that is explicit in the Bible.

I think the best way to take Revelation is to think of it describing things that people expected to happen in the physical world, and to place them the present as accomplished things; events on a spiritual level that were taken care of in Heaven but which affects all of us living on the earth.

Everything described in Revelation by John, he saw as current events, things that happened as he watched. He does not describe being taken to the future and seeing things that were going to happen at some later date.
What reading Revelation should do is relieve the reader from anxiety about what the future may bring, or if there are terrible Old Testament prophecies that still remain to be fulfilled. We are left with the invitation to join what has already been set up for us to enjoy, a world without death and suffering. Even though it looks like those things still exist in the observable world, we know their power has been effectively taken away.

originally posted by: sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by Iason321

 

I think I'll stick with what Jesus had to say on this subject:

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mat 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Read more: wiki.answers.com...

I read a book "23 Minutes in Hell" by Bill Wiese. If it is true, and I believe his story, it's worse than your worse nightmare.

there is also Mary K Baxter's Testimony on Heaven and Hell which is a real eye opener, to make you want to get saved by Jesus as well.

Here are my conclusions after two years of inquiry into the KJV on the subject of Hell:

1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation of the Cosmos - therefore, Hell is uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5. John 1:3 explicitly states that God made all, and that no other person or agency made anything. The Bible contains many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together as a term…without “hell.”

2. In the first chapter of Genesis, it is stated six times that God saw that what He had made was good, excluding Hell as being possible, as the Creation could not have been wholly good had Hell been in existence. See Genesis 1:10,12,18,21,25,31.

3. The Creation is properly a hierarchy, not a dualistic Heaven versus Hell – with the Earth and humans as a contested prize, fought over by God and Satan. See Genesis 1:1, Job 1 & 2, John 1:3, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 5:13.

4. God made both good and evil, for the same Hand that planted the Tree of Life also planted the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore, Satan did not make or create evil. See Genesis 2:9, Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6.

5. The Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell, so Satan is NOT the Prince of Hell. See Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zechariah 3:1-2, Revelation 2:13, 12:9.

6. The prince of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is not Satan, as it specifically refers to him as a man. See Ezekiel 26 - 28.

7. The Law God gave to Moses warned of death, but did not specify punishment in Hell, or warn of it. Punishments were delivered in the real world, and the most severe was simple death. See Genesis 2:17, Exodus through Deuteronomy, Romans 6:23.

8. All the consequences of human disobedience to God are worked out in the real, here-and-now world – not in Hell. This includes death, destruction, perishing, God’s wrath and His cursings. See Deuteronomy 28:15-68, 30:19, Ezekiel 32:32, Romans 13:4.

9. All people die, but none of them go to Eternal Conscious Torment – only to the grave or pit. See every instance of personal death in the Bible, with “hell” (if present) properly replaced with “sheol” or “hades,” as so often noted in the center or marginal reference column.

10. For the Hebrews, “sheol,” hidden, covered and unknown, was the state, condition or place of the dead. It was where the body returned to the dust and the spirit returned to God (Who gave it). See Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

11. Eternal Conscious Torment depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, and that comes, not from the Bible, but from Greek philosophy, from Socrates and Plato.

12. Hell, by definition, opposes the Gospel (the Good News) because Hell can only be Bad News for those sent there – and thus, for most of living (and dead) humanity.

13. Hell violates God’s Law, specifically the Law of the Jubilee, which sets all those in servitude free. Those who die are freed from sin, as prophesied by the Law of the Jubilee. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Isaiah 1:18, Romans 6:7,16.

14. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous, due to the presence of God’s Spirit of Life in each of us. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

15. Hell, like Babylon, is confusion. Hell is hot, but it’s also cold as…Hell. Hell is bright with fire, but it is dark. Hell is separation from God, but Mary K Baxter depicts Jesus touring Hell, chiding the damned. To go to Hell, you must be dead, but to be in ECT, you must be alive, but you’re dead, and on and on… Fictional descriptions of Hell, especially as seen in the works of Dante and Baxter, are clearly fictional and un-Biblical.

16. God’s plan for the wicked is to destroy their wickedness, not to destroy them or send them to Hell. See Psalm 1:6, 7:9, Isaiah 1:18, Jeremiah 3:12, Habakkuk 1:12, Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 10:26-27.

17. God speaks of ransoming/redeeming ALL from death and the grave – without exception. See Psalm 49:15, Ezekiel 16:55, Romans 6:23, Ephesians 1:10.

18. God is both willing AND able to save all. Given that He is omnipotent, we can ALL look forward with confidence to our eventual salvation. See Psalm 49:15, 86:13, 103:8-14, 136, Isaiah 1:18, 6:7, 25:7-8, 26:19, 33:24, 43:25, 44:22, 45:8, 55:8-9, 57:16, 64:6-9, Jeremiah 3:12. Lamentations 3:26-32, Ezekiel 11:19, 16:55, Hosea 13:14, Micah 4:5, 7:18-19, Ephesians 1:10, Philipians 3:21, Colossians 1:19-20, I Thessalonians 1:10, I Timothy 1:15, 2:4-6, 4:10, 6:13, II Peter 3:9.

19. God compares Himself to a cleansing or refining agent – usually as fire, but sometimes as soap. Therefore, all instances of supernatural fire should be interpreted as being for refining and/or purification, not damnation. Fire in the Bible is never Hellfire, but natural fire or God’s Fire. See Malachi 3:2-3, Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:15.

20. If God’s Fire is for baptism and refining, then that which is burned must be our carnal, sinful nature. It is symbolized by unfruitful trees, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble – by anything unable to endure the Fire. See Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:11-15.

21. “Hell” is used in the King James Version (and others) to replace four other words: “Sheol,” “Hades,” “Gehenna” and “Tartarus.” None of these four refer to a place of damnation or Eternal Conscious Torment. See any decent dictionary, especially the Oxford English Dictionary.

22. When we dig out mistranslations and peel away misinterpretations, we find that Hell is an imposition, an insertion into the text. With Hell so deconstructed, the Bible and God are both silent on Hell. See Numbers 23:19, John 14:2.

23. Christians should not follow the Hell of the ancient, pagan religions, such as the “Hel” we find in Norse mythology, but follow the truth of God’s Word, which does not contain either the concept of Hell or even the word “hell,” except in imperfect translations.

KINDOM OF GOD IS HEAVEN, FOUND INSIDE OF EVERYONE

HELL IS INDEED CONCIOUS SEPARATION OFF ONENESS, ITS NOT NECESARY BAD THING, YOU JUST DONT BELONG TO GOD

originally posted by: MasterOfNonexistent
KINDOM OF GOD IS HEAVEN, FOUND INSIDE OF EVERYONE

HELL IS INDEED CONCIOUS SEPARATION OFF ONENESS, ITS NOT NECESARY BAD THING, YOU JUST DONT BELONG TO GOD

"Hell" is not a useful term, except for those who want only to fill pews and collection plates. Otherwise, it carries too much false theological baggage.

If he can build space and everything in it ... Including you... Then he can sure as hell cast your lot right into a fiery lake for as long as he can muster.

Be a Mister not a Muster...

But if you insist... Muster the Rohirrim!

a reply to: Iason321

Text Hell does NOT exist. Atleast not as we commonly envision it.

In the 1611 KJV bible, as we now see it, hell is used 23 times by 7 authors of the NT letters. In the same bible hell is used 31 times by 10 authors of Hebrew/Aramaic OT books.

In the Hebrew/Aramaic Masoretic texts the word hell does not exist and is referenced as Sheol or Nether World. Sheol is referenced in the Masoretic texts 2 times by 2 authors. In the same Texts Nether World is used 43 times by 10 authors.

To be fair we then attach the Greek word hell as meaning the Hebrew/Aramaic word as meaning Nether World. In all events we have consciousness and discomfort. There is no burning of flesh in fire. The flesh of a dead person is decomposed or decomposing in the earth with no consciousness and will eventually return to its source. It is the soul of life that exists in the nether world/hell and in discomfort with the senses of taste, hearing, sight, motion, and total understanding. [Luke 16:19-31] ---

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Then you find this thread very interesting as well.

ATS Thread On Hell