The TRUTH about Hell (May shock you...)

reply to post by SoymilkAlaska


Nobody dies forever except the Son of Satan, according to the bible.

reply to post by SoymilkAlaska


There are no really bad people, only badly cultured people.

If I were still a fundamentalist, how would you explain the following verses to me in light of your OP?

Luke 16:19-26

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence...

reply to post by Klassified


In this text, Jesus was not discussing either the state of man in death or the time when rewards will be passed out. He was simply, through a parable, reflecting what the people of the time believed, meeting them on their own ground, about life after death, drawing a clear distinction between this life and the next and showing the relationship of each to the other. Jesus simply made use of a popular belief in order thereby to make forcibly clear an important lesson He sought to plant in the minds of His hearers.

Once again, as clearly set forth in the context, this parable was designed to teach that each person's future destiny is determined by the use he makes of the opportunities of this present life. Those who believe this narrative to be literal and not a parable, should note that if the rich man is literally and bodily in torment, then Lazarus was borne to Heaven literally and bodily. However, the bodies of both Lazarus and the rich man returned to the dust, whence they had come (Gen. 2:7; 3:19; Eccl. 12:7).

Doesn't the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 teach an eternal hell of torment?

No, Indeed! It is simply a parable used to emphasize a point. Many facts make it clear that this is a parable. A few are as follows:

Abraham's bosom is not heaven (Hebrews 11:8-10, 16)
People in hell can't talk to those in heaven (Isaiah 65: 17)
The dead are in their graves (Job 17:13; John 5:28, 29). The rich man was in bodily form with eyes, a tongue, etc., yet we know that the body does not go to hell at death. It is very obvious that the body remains in the grave, as the Bible says. If you'd like to know more about what happens after you die visit The Truth About Death website.
Men are rewarded at Christ's second coming, not at death (Revelation 22:11, 12)
The lost are punished in hell at the end of the world, not when they die (Matthew 13:40-42). The point of the story is found in verse 31 of Luke 16. Parables cannot be taken literally. If we took parables literally, then we must believe that trees talk! (See this parable in Judges 9:8-15).

By representing the beggar as being in heaven and the rich man as lost, Jesus taught His hearers that, contrary to the prevailing view, wealth was not necessarily an indicator of divine favor, just as poverty was not a sign of God's judgement upon a person.

Jesus was also seeking to educate the Jews that salvation would not be theirs by birthright. The rich man in torments calls out to "father Abraham," just as the Jews of Jesus' day were mistakenly pointing to heritage as proof of their assurance of salvation.

Furthermore, Jesus was seeking to lead His hearers to understand that only faithfulness to God's Word would prepare them to enter into eternal life. He told them, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead" (Luke 16:31).

To use the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in order to promote the false doctrine of an eternally burning hell is to misuse God's Word and to misrepresent His character.


Sources (two of many used here) www.helltruth.com ,, myshasta.info...

Wasn't "Abraham's bosom" another name for "Paradise"? And didn't Jesus tell the thief: "This day you shall be with me in "Paradise"?

Was paradise heaven? Or was paradise something else altogether? Such as Abraham's bosom inside the earth, across a gulf from hell. And was Jesus telling the thief his body would be in paradise? Or just his soul?

Which leads me to the next question. Are you saying God could not torment a mans soul in hell just as easily as he could his body? And comfort Lazarus soul just as easily as he could his body?

And couldn't Jesus have just as easily used the truth inside of a parable to illustrate a point?

Please note that I am no longer a christian. But I was a fundamentalist for many years. I'm just hitting you with questions a fundamentalist might ask because I'm interested in how well you've thought this out.

Originally posted by Klassified
Wasn't "Abraham's bosom" another name for "Paradise"? And didn't Jesus tell the thief: "This day you shall be with me in "Paradise"?

Was paradise heaven? Or was paradise something else altogether? Such as Abraham's bosom inside the earth, across a gulf from hell. And was Jesus telling the thief his body would be in paradise? Or just his soul?

Which leads me to the next question. Are you saying God could not torment a mans soul in hell just as easily as he could his body? And comfort Lazarus soul just as easily as he could his body?

And couldn't Jesus have just as easily used the truth inside of a parable to illustrate a point?

Please note that I am no longer a christian. But I was a fundamentalist for many years. I'm just hitting you with questions a fundamentalist might ask because I'm interested in how well you've thought this out.

"Bosom of Abraham" refers to the place of comfort in sheol (Greek: hades) where the Jews said the righteous dead awaited Judgment Day. So, no, Abrahams bosom was not referring to Paradise. I do believe Paradise and Heaven are one-in-the same. I believe when Jesus told the thief he would be with Jesus in Paradise, he meant his soul, not his body. The body returns to dust, for every man. And of course, if God so willed, he could torture a mans soul AND body in Hell. He is omnipotent, afterall. However, God is not malevolent. In fact, He is omnibenevolent. Does torturing a person sound like something an omnibenevolent Being would do?

What is truth anyways? And this IS a parable. He illustrated his point just fine.

reply to post by Iason321


We cannot live without the sun! The sun is above We are below! Hades rules the underworld. Hades is above We are below!

I do believe Paradise and Heaven are one-in-the same. I believe when Jesus told the thief he would be with Jesus in Paradise, he meant his soul, not his body.

Ok. Then this means Jesus took the thief to heaven with him, then returned to earth, told Mary not to touch him, because he had not yet ascended to the father, then ascended back to heaven in front of his disciples.

I think most fundamentalists would say Jesus had not ascended to heaven yet at the time he spoke to Mary. And this is partly why they see "paradise" as someplace or something else. And also why they see the parable of Lazarus and the rich man as having a kernel of truth.

An interesting thread, and an interesting perspective. Thanks for the responses. S&F BTW.

reply to post by Mister_Bit

It's often said that "god" created everything, in which case he created "hell" and the "devil".. so if he/she is all loving, why would he do that to punish people? Because he demands loyalty and if he doesn't get it, you go to the firery furnace! Doesn't sound all that loving to me.

I think God came into existence simultaneously (with the creation of the universe) as a counterbalance to the evil that would be inevitable built into the physical universe. Hell is part of a natural process and we need God to get us out of it but you need to be on good terms with God for Him to want to intervene in nature's course.

I lived as a christian for quite some time until I began to question the doctrine. I really just wanted to know, I wasn't being smarta$$ about it to them. They couldn't give me any more answers than just 'let go and let god' - whatever that meant. I learned that the words for hell in the bible meant grave and pit....I saw that the fire was mostly symbolic and where it wasn't it referenced Gehenna. I gave up on christianity. I tried other religions, but after that - more rules and regulations weren't doing it for me.
I'm somewhat saddened by the prospect of this being my only life - but what proof do I have that this will be my only life? Scientific studies? They can't find a soul? A few hundred years ago they wouldn't have been able to find bacteria, viruses, radiation, or any life at the bottom of the sea either. Their non-detection of it didn't mean it didn't exist. All my life, even when I was little (and against what I was taught) I always believed that the dead were really far away. I don't mean like a hundred miles or so - I mean...light years away.
Even if this is it, if this is all, when we die our consciousness ends and that's just that - we'll not experience it. Billions of years will flutter by, galaxies will collide, worlds will incinerate, stars will be born and die out...perhaps the universe will crunch in on itself or the famed 'heat-death'....given enough time (assuming we have infinity to play with) then perhaps...just perhaps we will live again.
Nice story, but don't bank on it. Live this life to the fullest! Have a great holiday!

reply to post by Iason321


The bible states rather clearly that hell is reserved for the devil and his demons. No man can go there. If god can squeeze anybody else in, I sincerely hope that it's people who teach about how evil he is by creating something failable and then punishing it for failing. I call bull# on that.

After 1000 years god has to let the devil and his demons out of hell and they again try to make war with god and then he kills them. The end.

I really hate the way those old bald headed preachers of yesteryear totally brainwashed all of Christianity. I really don't think god would blame anybody for not going to the church in its fallen state. And it's doubly shameful because the only reason they've preached a hard line gospel is because it keeps people scared and they get more money.

You can take a preacher out of any church and stand him beside a street beggar and, except for clothing, because preachers really like nice clothing, you would not be able to tell them apart. They share the same damn mentality of greed and godlessness.

Christianity is bull# in the modern era and may have been bull# since the time of Christ.

It's late and I'm just sitting here reading some passages and thinking about this. I am reading from a program called the "Interlinear Scripture Analyzer". It presents the Bible in its original Hebrew / Greek language form, along with a transliteration and translation of the text, and puts it side by side with the KJV.

Here are some verses, along with original words and meanings.

Acts 2:31 "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell (original Greek, Hades, the Unseen, the Grave), neither his flesh did see corruption (diaphthoran, decay, rot)."

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in the grave, neither his flesh did see decay"

Does this sound like it was intended to mean that Jesus was in a fiery place of eternal torment? Obviously not! It's speaking of the grave, hades, death.

Acts 2:27 "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (hades, the grave, the unseen), neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption (diaphthoran, decay)."

"Because thou wilt not leave my soul in the grave, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see decay."

Psalm 55:15 "Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell (sheol): for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them."

Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into the grave: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.

2 Sam 22:6 "The sorrows (chebel) of hell (sheol) compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;"

"The cables of the unseen compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;"


As you can see, I am trying to contrast between OT and NT and establish verocity for my claims. I can go on and on posting these, I am even thinking of working my way through the entire Bible. I feel this is an important spiritual truth.

God bless you all. Amen

Merely believing there is no hell does not make it so. Prudence must overcome desire.

Originally posted by Magnificient
reply to post by Iason321

 

The bible states rather clearly that hell is reserved for the devil and his demons. No man can go there. If god can squeeze anybody else in, I sincerely hope that it's people who teach about how evil he is by creating something failable and then punishing it for failing. I call bull# on that.

Mathew 24:51


"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

I don't know I could be wrong but the eternal death you are referring to as in non-existence(not getting tortured) sounds a bit like nirvana,and for bad people to get this ,sounds too easy(I am not hoping them to get punished badly is just that it seems too easy for them).

Peace out.

What if it is heaven that is the lie?

Maybe it's a spirit trap for all believers that the devil harness energy from it?

Keep telling yourself that buddy In the end your just stating an opinion. There is no way you can prove it.

Originally posted by Iason321
This is the truth about Hell, coming from a Christian. The truth is..... Hell does NOT exist. Atleast not as we commonly envision it. When most people hear of the word Hell, they think of an eternal place of fiery torment. The truth is, no such place exists. The word Hell is a translation of Sheol, Hades, and sometimes Gehenna (in the NT). Hell, otherwise known as Sheol, or Hades, also translated from Gehenna in the NT, is the grave, death, non existence, and oblivion. What atheists commonly believe happens in death, is what actually happens to them when they are sent to Hell. Hell is eternal separation from God. The bible is very clear that the punishment for sin is DEATH, not eternal life in a fiery place. People do not believe in Jesus so we can escape hell and live eternally, no, we believe in Jesus so that we will not PERISH, but have eternal life.

I can give more examples and answer specific questions, but we need to start spreading the truth. A lot of people don't believe in Christ because they can't stomach the idea of people burning eternally in Hell. No one is burning eternally! Satan (evil) DOES exist, but he doesn't "dwell" in a fiery pit, he lives right here, on Earth.

This may shock some fundamentalist Christians, but please have an open mind and do some research on this. If you seek the truth, you will find it!

Look into Carlton Pearsons story. Also, www.helltruth.com ... , is a very good starting reference point. There are countless other websites and topics online discussing this matter as well. God bless you all!

I'm sorry, did you just ask US to be open minded? You're on a fairly intelligent conspiracy theory website talking about how we should only believe in Jesus to avoid oblivion and you're asking us to be more open minded?

This world never ceases to disappoint me.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

That guy must have had one hell of a trip............on '___'

reply to post by Iason321




Your thread should have been titled


My Opinion about Hell (May shock you...)