End Times prophecy's of Old Testament prophets and the near present future of the Middle East.

In my opinion its the believers in bible prophecy who will bring about the end of days. The evengelicals who promote Isreal in the belief it will usher in the "rapture" a term not found until the middle ages. The R.C.C was founded by Constantine to unify his empire under one religion. In other words as a means to control the masses. I do not have a problem with religion as such, only the idea that bringing about the apocalypse would be a good thing. Evangelical christianity is every bit as dangerous as extremist islam.

I'm watching a 36 x 1.5 hour series on "The book of Revelation" by Prof Walter J Veith. After seeing one, i had to, and i'm trailing my 1 per night goal. I'm about halfway, i think.

You really should watch it, the guy is really tuned into it, and frankly i cannot find fault yet. He provides all the evidence against the rcc and newage, ties bible prophecies into a coherent stream, and switches on the light as to "how it really is", both historically and prophetically.

I've seen a few websites that make various claims against him, i can't comment on those. Watch the videos, compare with your bible, and then decide on his authenticity.

Total Onslaught

All the questions in your op are answered fully, and biblically.

reply to post by ntech

John the Baptist wasn't supposed to die when he did. Why?

Try this verse
Malachi 3.
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

You see it's not one messiah that was supposed to show up in the first century AD.

It was supposed to have been 3 messiahs in the first century AD!

One was killed prematurely and the other simply never showed up.

3 Messiahs or 2? Your numbers don't match.
Not that it matters, there was only ever one Messiah prophesied. But, there certainly are two people mentioned in Malachi 4:1 - the messenger who prepares the way, and the Lord, the messenger of the covenant, "whom ye delight in." Within the context of this verse, neither is called a Messiah, so to call them both Messiahs is a tad bit premature.

So what happened was this.

Malachi 4.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Matthew 17
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Elijah was killed and the curse was laid on the earth.

Yet, you'll see, John the Baptist accomplished everything Malachi 4:6 said he would - he did his job, which was to prepare the way for the Lord ("whom ye delight in"). We see this in Luke 1:16-17, where, speaking to Zechariah of his future son, John, the angel said, "He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous - to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.” John accomplished this. Had he not, a people would not have been prepared for Jesus and he would have had no disciples. But, he did, and Jesus came with his disciples, many of whom John had prepared, and was with them for the course of his ministry on Earth.

So what is the curse? ... What happened was a top level Leviticus 26 curse was applied.

Sounds official. It's a wonder God wasn't delayed by all the red tape.

Hosea 6-2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

This was fulfilled by Christ, who, if you'll recall, was crucified and raised on the third day, bringing salvation and raising a nation with him (Luke 24:46; 1 Corinthians 15; Colossians 3:1; 1 Peter 2:9).
And then there's the fact that Jesus applies Hosea 6:6 to his own first coming (Matthew 9:13, 12:7).
There is no contextual reason to apply this to anything other than the first coming of Christ.

2nd Peter 3-8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Yes...let's misuse Peter's declaration of the God's sovereign perception of time. Everyone else does, why be any different? Once again, there is absolutely no contextual reason to apply this to any sort of prophetic timescale.

Now do you see the problem with your position now?

I see you taking random Scripture and doing a lot of pointless cross-stitching. That's about all.

When the 2000 year curse kicked in all the previous fulfillments of end time prophecy became invalid. Why. Take Daniel for example. The prophesies of Daniel have this condition in several places. ...

I've already been over this future "Last Days" nonsense. Jesus came the first time in "these last days" according to the writer of Hebrews. No need to make it future to us when the "Last Days" - the "time of the end" - came nearly 2000 years ago.

The "conditions" you claim are not conditions at all. They're a declaration that the prophecies given to Daniel were still a long time from happening. 600 years seems to qualify.


Continued in next post...

Continued from previous post.

And lastly.
Genesis
49-1
And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

Why Genesis? The prophesies of Genesis 48 and 49 predict that the descendants of Israel were to have become a multitude of nations by the end times. That certainly didn't happen by the first century AD. They had to be scattered to the world first. Conquest by genetics. And knowledge needed to be increased as well. And while the Romans did have some interesting technologies in the first century AD it doesn't hold a candle to what we can do today.

A multitude of nations - the Gentiles were called "nations" and the Gospel was given to the Gentiles. Between the Gentile and Jewish Christians, the Kingdom is comprised of people from many nations who have come together to form one nation (1 Peter 2:9). This was accomplished by them being scattered into the world, but they came together at the fall of the Roman Empire, when Revelation 11:15 was fulfilled.

Increase of knowledge - you don't really think this means secular knowledge, do you? 2 Corinthians 4:6, for example...plus Colossians 2:2-3, 2 Peter 1:2, and many that speak of the knowledge of the truth in Christ. This was the knowledge that would increase.

Originally posted by adarmis
In my opinion its the believers in bible prophecy who will bring about the end of days. The evengelicals who promote Isreal in the belief it will usher in the "rapture" a term not found until the middle ages. The R.C.C was founded by Constantine to unify his empire under one religion. In other words as a means to control the masses. I do not have a problem with religion as such, only the idea that bringing about the apocalypse would be a good thing. Evangelical christianity is every bit as dangerous as extremist islam.

The word rapture is not found this is true but the concept is and was established in the original greek called the harpazo and speaks up being "caught up to meet the Lord in the sky".

Evangelicals are basically extremists and this i agree with. I particularly do not care for Televangelists who treat the faith like a money making gimick selling "blessed handkerchiefs" to the millions of ignorant masses who do not know they're buying idols, or the kind of televangelists who tell people if they place their hands on their tv sets they can recieve miracle healing, which is witchcraft and idolatry.

Only the ignorant believe they can bring about the "apocalypse" which comes form the greek word apoc which means "to reveal" which actually speaks of the Revelation of Yahshua. The beginning of the end will not occur until Yahweh is done taking for himself a people from the gentile nation. In which he will then turn his attention to Israel and finish forging them into what he wants of them. It doesn't matter how many people like Ahmajinedad or Khamenei, or their radical "christian" counterparts try to annihilate humanity, you cannot force the hand of Yahweh because He is the one riting this story. We're not living in history, we are living in His Story.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

... the concept is and was established in the original greek called the harpazo and speaks up being "caught up to meet the Lord in the sky".

'Harpazo' means to be seized or taken by force. Paul spoke of one who was taken to the third heaven, and Jesus said that those who are in the Father's hand will not be taken from him. Both are 'harpazo'. It in no way indicates a physical "catching up" leading to the sudden disappearance of millions of people off the Earth. Rather, it indicates that Jesus would take his followers out of the world, while the world would not succeed in taking his followers away from him. This is not a physically "taking" but a spiritual one, as it's accompanied by the resurrection of the dead which is also spiritual (what good is a physical resurrection of the dead?).

Originally posted by CLPrime

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

... the concept is and was established in the original greek called the harpazo and speaks up being "caught up to meet the Lord in the sky".

'Harpazo' means to be seized or taken by force. Paul spoke of one who was taken to the third heaven, and Jesus said that those who are in the Father's hand will not be taken from him. Both are 'harpazo'. It in no way indicates a physical "catching up" leading to the sudden disappearance of millions of people off the Earth. Rather, it indicates that Jesus would take his followers out of the world, while the world would not succeed in taking his followers away from him. This is not a physically "taking" but a spiritual one, as it's accompanied by the resurrection of the dead which is also spiritual (what good is a physical resurrection of the dead?).

I suppose you also come from the school who believe he will not return in the flesh too?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


It doesn't matter what I believe. What matters is what Scripture says. I don't stand with any group, I stand by God's Word.

Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

No...there was more to Israel than what you see in the Old Testament. It became a spiritual, perfected nation, surpassing land. Now, it's a heavenly kingdom known here on Earth as the Church - the "Israel of God." We care nothing for land, and we will not go back to any sort of physical system. Why would we? The perfection has come.

Also...the entire book of Revelation was given to the 7 mid-first-century churches at Asia Minor and was, save for a couple sentences, fulfilled in the rule and fall of the Roman Empire. Even the passage you quoted. It's all in the past.

In your view, what "couple sentences" have not been fulfilled in Revelation?

reply to post by Deetermined


9 verses to be exact:

Revelation 20:7-15 (NIV) - "When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth - Gog and Magog - and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

Is it me or do the prophecies relate to the time they were written??? I mean both Babylon and Rome get a bashing and they were both conquering invaders. if the u.s invaded israel then im sure they would also feature given time. Most of the scripture from the old testament came from the torrah which itself was mostly written by Babylonian Jews in exile. To put faith in scripture written thousands of years ago by a race that does not exist anymore is quite silly in my opinion. In England we had peat bogs in which people were offered to the gods, but you don't see us doing that now.

reply to post by CLPrime


So, you're saying the thousand years of peace (the Millenium) is already over?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I only question the data related because Judaisim -Christianity and Islam are ALL ENLILite influenced so its hard to call with that data known. Maybe a sign of book tampering

reply to post by Deetermined


Thousand years of peace? There is no such thing in Scripture.
The thousand year reign is now occurring, and has been since the fall of the Roman Empire.

reply to post by CLPrime


I thought Satan was supposed to be bound in the Abyss to keep him from deceiving the nations during the Millenium? Is that what you see happening?

Revelation 20:4 "...They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Who are "they"? Reign where?

Revelation 11 - Who were the "two witnesses"?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by CLPrime

 

I thought Satan was supposed to be bound in the Abyss to keep him from deceiving the nations during the Millenium? Is that what you see happening?

At the moment, I see Satan having been recently released from the abyss and going out to deceive the nations again. However, for the period between the fall of Rome (the beast) and whenever Satan was released (my best guess would be at some point in the first half of the 1900s, but that's not for me to know), Satan was indeed bound. The important thing to notice here is that man is fully capable of continuing in evil whether Satan is actively deceiving or not. The binding of the deceiver does nothing to remove the deceit.

Revelation 20:4 "...They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Who are "they"? Reign where?

"They" are exactly who it says they are in the part of verse 4 that you conveniently cut - those who overcame the beast, the Roman Empire. They reign in heaven with Christ.

Revelation 11 - Who were the "two witnesses"?

The Church - those who testified of Christ until Diocletian unleashed his persecution, at which point they were thought to be defeated; but they survived, climaxing in the announcement by Galerius that the persecution had failed, followed soon after by the Edict of Milan.

reply to post by CLPrime


Do you mind if I ask where you receive your information from?

I have more questions regarding the "two witnesses".

(Revelation 11) The Bible says that the "two witnesses" were given power to stop the rain, turn the water into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague.

It also says the "two witnesses" came back to life and "terror struck those who saw them".

It also goes on to talk about a great earthquake hitting at the same time causing a tenth of the city to collapse and 7,000 people killed.

I don't recall reading of any of these miraculous things happening in the stories of Diocletian and Galerius during or after their reign.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by CLPrime

 

Do you mind if I ask where you receive your information from?

My current understanding of Scripture is from time spent in personal study and prayer.

I have more questions regarding the "two witnesses".

(Revelation 11) The Bible says that the "two witnesses" were given power to stop the rain, turn the water into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague.

It also says the "two witnesses" came back to life and "terror struck those who saw them".

It also goes on to talk about a great earthquake hitting at the same time causing a tenth of the city to collapse and 7,000 people killed.

I don't recall reading of any of these miraculous things happening in the stories of Diocletian and Galerius during or after their reign.

Revelation is a book of symbols. More importantly, Revelation is a graphic image of events and characters significant to the 7 churches of Asia Minor that the revelation was addressed to, similar in style to the other books of prophecy, which were all written in Jewish apocalyptic language. Within the Book of Revelation, the details are highly symbolic, though they work to give a vivid image of literal events, which are made obvious by tone and context.
The early Church was accompanied by power in the Holy Spirit, and, when it survived the Diocletian persecution, it shook Rome to its pagan core. Thereafter, with the rise of Constantine, Christianity (nominal) took over the empire, allowing the Church to thrive. If we were to paint that as a vivid word picture, we might call it an earthquake causing a part of the city to collapse.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Nowhere in all that did i read anything about 2 ways other than Yahshua to get to heaven. You have just revealed to me and my brothers and sisters what you are.

Thank you for your quotes from the bible. They where very nice and confirmed much of what I have already thought and been shown by synchronicity. I think I see a very different thing in those lines than you do but I really loved the message I got. From my point the pragraphs are all true except the titles that are screwing up the meaning.
for instance Jesus the Way to the Father

en.wikipedia.org...
From my point of view you are still hidding in the cave reading the bibble while I am running in and out of the cave telling you of things I have experianced from the outside. The bibble is written by people who have been outside the cave and people who sometimes peeked out of the cave. It's your choice to just read about the outside but I will rather go outside even if I get blinded and deaf. The feeling of light on my body makes me happy and the dampness of the cave is not for me anymore.

Off course I will be antichrist in your view because I will not follow the Christian view of god. From my point of view it is sometimes blasphemious. You are beliving in dualities still where I only see ego and egoless. I am seing myself as a part of god separated from the whole, but at least with some support now. There is a part of me that is antichrist and it is my ego and I am battleing it every day so that I will love as much as I am able to. When my mind is totaly silent there is joy of just being alive and feeling that was never there before. From my point of view being harmonious like Jesus, Buddha och Gandi is not hard when you surrounded by egoless people who want you to be happy and are giving with their time.

Seek and you shall find is the truest word ever written. Question and you will be answered. But be sure you are ready for the answers because sometimes you get answers you need and not what you want. There is a point when your allowed to know to much to ever go back to the dream. As the buddist are saying. When the student is ready the master appears.

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

How can anyone reading above not get that everything in the universe is connected and that All is one, if they belive in the bible? At least on a soul level for humans. If I love god then I love Jesus because Jesus is a part of him. If I love buddha then I love God since Buddha is a part of him.

Maybe you are right and I am totaly wrong. Maybe I am a manipulator who wants you away from your god. Or maybe I am the opposite. Someone who tries to make you widen your mind so that you will be ready to recieve something. Nobody can run up that hill for you or maybe you are just playing a joke on me and is already sitting on the hill. www.youtube.com... I don't even know if I am on the top of the hill. But the teacher have appeared at least for me. Whatever you do try to be happy doing whatever you do. Namaste.

reply to post by CLPrime


You've definitely given me a different view than I've never considered before and I can't wait to do more research on it.

In the meanwhile, I found this explanation for the Millennium that makes some sense to me too. I'd be interested in your thoughts on it, if you get a chance.

www.1000yearmillennium.com...