The Secret of Freemasonry Seen in the Reflection of a Mirror - What do you see?

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
When a group of people hide their actions, they are a cabal. Hidden and private associations are hiding for a reason.

What about the evil Catholic Confessional Cabal? Or the Board room Cabal at the company you work for? Or a conclave at the Vatican? Or your secret banking Cabal where you conspire to use your money to take over the world! Since you have not opened your financial history up to the readers of ATS, you are very obviously hiding it, thus making a Cabal by your definition.

See how ignorant it is to take everything you see literally?

Peter was the lesser stone of conjunction that the church was assumed to be built on. Peter is Petros. Jesus is Petra. Petra is the greater stone. The capstone is what the true church is built on. The Vatican points salvation through themselves. This is the key that was misused. The Cabal of the Vatican is no different than the Cabal of Hermetic Theurgy. These are works based religions, same as being a Freemason. Works do not lead to the key of love and salvation through gift. God's salvation is grace. The others twist and mirror this truth so that they can take and seem like they are following truth.

Magicians are "experts" in the law, using it to manipulate and take rather than give.

"Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering." (Luke 11:52)

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

[snip]

the way the free masons see the world is they were born in their position of life,, they worked their ass of,, they did, none else for them,, and they acquired out of this sovereign experience their life, their family, their wisdom, and possessions and skills..

And how does your assertion hold up when Freemasons are as well-represented in the 99% as they are in the 1%? How then are the 1% representative of Freemasonry when 99% aren't?

And how does your assertion hold up when responding to a primary income 50-year-old Freemason, laid off more than three years ago and running to the ends of his savings while supporting a wife and an ill stepdaughter?

Does your assertion hold water at all?

Fitz

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
And how does your assertion hold up when responding to a primary income 50-year-old Freemason, laid off more than three years ago and running to the ends of his savings while supporting a wife and an ill stepdaughter?

Conspiratard answer is: you are not high enough up the pyramid. Duh.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
And how does your assertion hold up when responding to a primary income 50-year-old Freemason, laid off more than three years ago and running to the ends of his savings while supporting a wife and an ill stepdaughter?

Conspiratard answer is: you are not high enough up the pyramid. Duh.

While my gut expectation is to expect some iteration of that response, being a cockeyed optimist I hold out the hope of being pleasantly surprised with a thoughtful answer. That said, if the answer is more in line with your response plus blaming Barrack Obama for my situation, I shall laugh and bow three times in the direction of Old Credit©.

Fitz

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Have you ever had a Jahova's Witness knock on your door and try to tell you all about their religion? As much as they can be irritating, it's nothing compared to someone telling you how wrong your beliefs are before they even know what your beliefs are.

I get that you think you are "saving my soul" or at least trying to, but I don't need it. If the way I live is not good enough to get to heaven then I am destined for hell. You may be too. But it surely isn't my place to decide. Much like it is not your place to tell me. Have you been on a mission trip? If not, you should go. At least then while you are beating people over their heads with your Bible, you might actually help them out a bit as well.

Once you have assured yourself that all the people in your family is saved, you can start working on your neighbors. Or perhaps you can find all the people on ATS who don't even believe in God.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Greek is an inflected language, meaning that words change form to indicate the role they play in the sentence. The root of the word contains the basic meaning, and the ending is changed according to declensions that indicate number, case and gender of the noun. The word for stone has the grammatical gender that is feminine, but if you were to refer to a man as a rock the ending would modify the noun to petros.

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Greek is an inflected language, meaning that words change form to indicate the role they play in the sentence. The root of the word contains the basic meaning, and the ending is changed according to declensions that indicate number, case and gender of the noun. The word for stone has the grammatical gender that is feminine, but if you were to refer to a man as a rock the ending would modify the noun to petros.

edit on 17-2-2012 by no1smootha because: (no reason given)

The gender issue is only one part of the definition. The irony in what Christ was saying comes from this rendering of the usage, but also considers the gender issue by alchemy: Definitions: Petra denotes "a mass of rock," as distinct from Petros, "a detached stone or boulder," or a stone that might be thrown or easily moved. Vine's expository dictionary.

It also denotes the lesser stone and conjunction. LINK

Both sides of evil and good must be separated. Alchemy is a good metaphor. Silver is separated from Gold.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Let's analyze their "points of comparison":

1. Both Freemasonry and "witchcraft" require investigation and recommendation. This is hardly earth-shattering.
2. I don't know what jurisdiction the gentleman entered, but there is no spear in any part of the blue lodge, and the object "thrust into one's heart" (it's more of a poke, but what's truth when you have a "ministry" to run?) is usually the compasses.
3. Flagrantly false. You do not "kneel down before the Worshipful Master"; he approaches you.
5. There is no possible way he could have phrased that less honestly. Let's see, from Duncan's Ritual, what the candidate is "told to expect":

as it is a torture to your flesh, so should the recollection of it ever be to your mind and conscience, should you attempt to reveal the secrets of Masonry unlawfully.

That's the penalty...guilt for breaking a solemn obligation. Then again, maybe I impugned his honestly unfairly, and he honestly never heard it; these gentlemen do act as such a lesson never entered their minds.

6. "From darkness to light..." Nearly every religious and philosophical system in the world uses the concept of light metaphorically. It' hardly unique to these two institutions.
7. "So mote it be" is the English translation of "amen", and was used interchangeably with the same for centuries (Chaucer uses it in the Canterbury Tales). That followers of a non-Abrahamic religion don't use the Hebrew hardly makes the English translation "Satanic"; by that logic, 99% of the world's Christian population is secretly pagan because it uses that Savior's Greek name rather than Yeshua, or unwittingly Asatru because it uses the Germanic "God" rather than the Hebrew "Yahweh".

One final note: these similarities (and, as I hope I've shown, they don't hold up so well under further review) are assumed to indicate that Freemasonry and "witchcraft" enjoyed a symbiotic relationship. In the case of Wicca, which from my limited study appears to be the variant of "witchcraft" (unlike how the video presented it, it's not some monolithic, unified body) in question, ritual was directly copied from Freemasonry, and blaming the similarities on Freemasonry is like blaming Loretta Lynn for Taylor Swift.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


The problem is that in Aramaic, the word used is Kepha for both Peter and the stone, so I lean towards the grammatical gender declination explanation in the Greek translation. I am confident that other Greek speakers here would back me up.


I am NOT arguing that this passage refers to the Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome, however.

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

The problem is that in Aramaic, the word used is Kepha for both Peter and the stone, so I lean towards the grammatical gender declination explanation in the Greek translation. I am confident that other Greek speakers here would back me up.

edit on 18-2-2012 by no1smootha because: (no reason given)

I am NOT arguing that this passage refers to the Supremacy of the Bishop of Rome, however.

edit on 18-2-2012 by no1smootha because: (no reason given)

There is a good rendering of this here: LINK More references included.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


You provide another misinterpretation from someone who obviously doesn't read, write or speak Greek as evidence. You do realize that Jesus spoke Aramaic and his words were later translated to Greek, don't you?

reply to post by no1smootha


Details, details.

Fitz

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You provide another misinterpretation from someone who obviously doesn't read, write or speak Greek as evidence. You do realize that Jesus spoke Aramaic and his words were later translated to Greek, don't you?

True, the P e s hitta makes no distinction, as it is written in the Syriac language. What you are failing to see is that Matthew was first written in Hebrew. We now know this from the Even Bohan / Shem Tov Matthew . The translators of Greek would have know this manuscript and taken this information from it forward to the Greek translations.

I have done this research before, so unless you have a better source than a Hebrew Matthew, we are still at a mystery of sorts. The ball is in my favor and also with the Greek version of the text.

This, untill the discovery of the Shem-Tob Matthew, was considered the proof of a Greek origional as due to the pun in the Greek. But now we see, there is an equal pun of words in the Hebrew.

LINK

reply to post by EnochWasRight


The Medieval Hebrew Shem Tov Matthew was translated from Greek sources according to scholars.

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You provide another misinterpretation from someone who obviously doesn't read, write or speak Greek as evidence. You do realize that Jesus spoke Aramaic and his words were later translated to Greek, don't you?

Here is a side by side of the Pes_hito and the Hebrew. LINK Like all mysteries, God does not provide anything that can provide proof. There will always be a mystery created by mirroring the two sides. The missing zero point of perfect, undeniable truth is always left out. Why? We must choose good and evil by the evidence. Notice this with the 666 number in Revelation. Is it 665 or 616? Again, it's a mystery and we must weigh the evidence to see the true perspective. Symbols and context tell the story on all examples we can use.

Originally posted by no1smootha
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

The Medieval Hebrew Shem Tov Matthew was translated from Greek sources according to scholars.

Are we sure? God never enters a sure bet when it comes to truth. We are required to see the zero point of truth between -1 and +1. Context to the overall Word of God always provides the excluded middle. If you research truth enough, you will always see that truth is never completely present. It is always at a reflecting point. Consider a great example.

Consider the OP example of Aliester Crowley and Jesus on the Lead rule reflected by the Golden rule. The choice between good and evil must always be chosen from the reflection in the mirror. What you see is the truth, but only if you realize you see yourself. Know your self.

EnochWasRight,
I hope you do understand Alchemy, especially Hermetic Alchemy, is not a system of dictation?

As for Magicians, yes, some do indeed abuse knowledge to do acts of impiety while others do not and use 'Magick' to 'Cultivate the Stone'.

You come across to me (please correct me if I am wrong) as someone dictating a 'certain way only' to Gnosis mixed with a touch of Hermeticism. An important thing to understand is that Hermeticism respects all forms of piety, this means that Gnosis is experienced directly, whether you be a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Athiest, Wiccan or what have you.

As for Cabals, I can speak for the 'Hermetic Cabal' and say, that there are none unless you mean those who are imposters? The reason being, you can't be a Hermeticist and harbour urges to take over the world because that is not what Hermeticism is.

As for the rest of the stuff on this thread and the countless others against Masons, this lack of real research and the prevailence of ignorance and scapegoatism is unbecoming of ATS' motto of 'Deny Ignorance'.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Conspirus
Whereas a satanic ritual is much more sadistic in nature where children and virgins are tortured, raped to the point of death, and sacrificed and they do eat human flesh and drink their blood, all to gather the evil energy for whatever event/person they're trying to add power to.

To use your own words, “Is that right? Care to give some examples? ”

“A member of the Franciscan Order and author of the document Secrets from the Vatican Library writes that every child under thirteen without sexual experience is eligible for abuse during Satanic rituals. According to the writer, these young children are abused sexually. Boys are sodomized and girls are vaginally raped. The Satanists continue their abuse until the child is dying, and then he or she is cut into pieces and eaten by the ritual participants.” With Amazon Kindle, Worldwide Evil and Misery: The Legacy of the 13 Satanic Bloodlines, page 2048 (with kindle, no idea where it is in the physical book as proportions differ.)

A Black Prince (a black Satanic magician) estimated that in the United States alone, between 40,000 and 60,000 people are sacrificed annually during Satanic rituals. -Interview with a Black Prince, Dr. Al Carlisle, Satan’s Underground, Stattford, 1990, 144.

The Great White Brotherhood, highest level of the Illuminati structure
“If you want to raise the ultimate kind of power within Satanism you sacrifice someone, In the highest levels of Satanism they believe the best way to raise your energy is by murdering something, either animal or a person. With a human being there’s an enormous amount of energy released.” Bill Schnoebelen

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Conspirus

 

You're proof that a small amount of information is a dangerous thing. FDR did not create the Great Seal of the US. It was created long before his time. The Eye of Providence was used prior to the establishment and use of the Masons, and it was used by the Christians.

You were proof of that way before me man how bout you get off your horse too and walk, or read what I posted instead of fishing into it to find something to throw at me that I didn‘t exactly say?

Alright so wait one minute man, did I say that? I NEVER said FDR “created” the Great Seal of the US, go back and read my post. I said he was the one to officially put it on the dollar; the seal (created in the late 1700’s, “as we know it“ key phrase); similar symbolism has existed for centuries and are used by the secret societies that eventually became your favored boy scout club; pardon the phrase but you ain’t bein too respectful yourself. Freemasonry can be traced back to the ancient mystery religion of Babylon and Egypt - sure explains why our wonderful founding fathers and Presidents today would be ok with architecture that salute the ancient Egyptian religions littering the US Capitol and other important buildings throughout the country.

The symbol was used once by some artist painting a picture of Jesus, and the artist was likely not even a Christian, even if he were that is the only real significant instance. The sign is found on many cathedrals and church buildings yes, but if you pay attention they are either all Roman Catholic buildings, the cathedrals that the Templars built, or other famous cathedrals that are very intricately built by techniques no normal architect could replicate in this day.

Granted, suppose I am wrong and Christians DID use it significantly in the past - assuming this scenario were correct, much like paganism was incorporated into say Christmas or Easter and eventually became the main focuses of the Holiday instead of any Christian reverence or meaning, very likely the same thing has happened here with the symbol and it is an occult symbol.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Conspirus

 

Christmas? Easter?

Following the Jewish calendar, the actual birth date of Jesus would fall somewhere around September on our current calendar, recently some speculate it was 9/11 (what a “coincidence” that would be eh?), and NOT December 25th, furthermore, the Christmas that is so popularized in the world today with all it’s glamour, and Santa, the bringer of materialism, is not nearly the celebration of what it should represent. The Christmas we know today is more likely celebrating another god’s birth, Sol Invictus or whatever, and not the one Christianity follows - here is another instance where many who celebrate this holiday in the manner that is advertised today unknowingly are celebrating a pagan deity at the same time - same deceitful method used by Satan to get some kinda glory for himself.

The basic premises for the popular Christmas is lying, contrary to Christian teachings. Other symbolism that shows the fake Christmas’ true affiliation is the tree, both a phallic symbol as well as a shining pyramid with the star on top OR a female angel. Female angels aren’t biblical, thus they are likely representing the whore of Babylon, or Isis; similar statues can be found on top of the US Capitol building - Christian? Oh yeah, obviously… (sarcasm ) Anyway, the pagan practices of the Romans were too important for their emperors to give up, so they just combined both a Christian idea to a pagan holiday so both pagans and Christians could celebrate something at the same time - it was no Christian idea to do this. Now that everyone loves materialistic gain and no one knows true history anymore, “Christmas” is thought to have pagan origins from the very beginning, but really, doesn’t….Jesus doesn’t even ask to have his birthdate celebrated like such, and definitely not how it has been done:

Deut. 12:30 "take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them, after they are destroyed from before you, and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, `How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.'

31 "You shall not worship Yahweh your Elohim in that way; for every abomination to Yahweh which He hates they have done to their gods;
Easter has a similar history in which a pagan holiday was celebrated on or near the day Christians would celebrate the resurrection, thus resulting in the eventual merging of the two festivities over the many years - as a matter of fact, Christians and pagans used to argue pretty harshly over the differences of the celebrations.

Just like the taking over of the Vatican by the occult has been gradual, the emphasis of what these 2 holidays were supposed to be on has been replaced by pagan symbolism and methods to become the focus.