The True Resting Place of the Grail

I realize that the OP was weak and dfiffuse, and that I left a vaccum which was subsequently filled by folks wrangling over Baigent, Lincoln and Leigh. No fault but mine own. But it would have been nice if I'd been able to find the right language so we could all discuss the Grail in a new way.

What I should have made clear in the OP:

1. The physical Grail is irrelevant.

2. Representations of empathy and compassion are few and far between in Western mythology. Between you and me, it is very tempting to think that the absence of those Principles in pre-Christian and Buddhist cultures may indicate that these faculties are very new indeed. I believe the Grail to be the strongest and most enduring symbol of those qualities.

3. The Grail canon has been used as means of moderating and civilizing Warrior societies in the past. Most notably, Eleanor and her PR Troubs.

Originally posted by Eidolon23
I realize that the OP was weak and dfiffuse, and that I left a vaccum which was subsequently filled by folks wrangling over Baigent, Lincoln and Leigh. No fault but mine own. But it would have been nice if I'd been able to find the right language so we could all discuss the Grail in a new way.

What I should have made clear in the OP:

1. The physical Grail is irrelevant.

2. Representations of empathy and compassion are few and far between in Western mythology. Between you and me, it is very tempting to think that the absence of those Principles in pre-Christian and Buddhist cultures may indicate that these faculties are very new indeed. I believe the Grail to be the strongest and most enduring symbol of those qualities.

3. The Grail canon has been used as means of moderating and civilizing Warrior societies in the past. Most notably, Eleanor and her PR Troubs.

I think I am getting what you are saying, correct me if I am wrong.
Basically, you think the grail is similar to the ancient worlds mythology, where a tale of hero overcoming demons is not essentially, physical evil demonic beings but an inner demon? (I.E, desire, lust, anger etc)

Is that what you mean?

reply to post by TheGreatest


Well, that's the fascinating thing. As I think I may have said somewhere back there in the Priory flustercuck, we may have been intuiting brain function, and encoding it into stories. You're right, the Grail quest follows ancient formulaic outline; but there are some striking divergences from the old patterns, ne?

So I don't think it's the same old boy meets dragon, boy slays dragon, boy gets girl story.

reply to post by andy1972


Hey, Prester John LIVES!

However the relic rush was not about the search for the Holy Grail. That was a cover story for knowledge that threatened an economic order that favored the nobility's monopoly on opportunity and wealth. That's making money with money wholly dependent on enslaving people. Philip IV the 5th finally got the knowledge and surpassed its dissimulation. Today the manifestation of the nobility order is found in places with NY, NY Wall Street and K. Street DC. addresses. The East India companies were the result of suppressing the knowledge contained inside the actual grail which were scrolls originally belonging to Solomon Temple as God's instructions of how to bring individual liberty and economic freedom to all, Heaven On Earth. The founders of the United States referred to it as "the purist of happiness." The definition of the "the purist of happiness is everyone individually owning one's own means of productions devoid of personal debt.

The Scottish folk who lived in the mountains of the American Colonies practiced Heaven on Earth for example.

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

Originally posted by blazenresearcher
I'm sure it has already been mentioned, but the holy grail is within...

The power to self govern is found within. To hang on to self governance each individual must own their own means of productions, the very definition of the "pursuit of happiness." AKA freedom! Some Temple of Yahweh teachings there for ya. The opposite is bondage of course through others owning you and your means of productions. AKA slavery. Some Babylonian teachings there, the way of Babylon. Perpetual debt and being a life long employee to someone who owns your job.

Contract everything you do and never barrow a dime. The way of thee Yahweh.

Metaphorically speaking, follow the Shepard so you're not eaten by wolves.

It's the wine inside the vessel that matters, the wine is the word, the Truth, the template of how to create "Heaven on Earth." It's the knowledge of how to obtain true freedom.

U contradicted yourself when U said this:

"follow the Shepard so you're not eaten by wolves."

To follow is Bondage, sew be the Shepard, then the wolves eat the sheeple.

Ribbit

reply to post by Eidolon23

Or: They are there to be drunk from. One can be a bottomless vessel.

What is that sort of like a bottomless box, or one of them magic bags were you can put any item in them without running out of room.

I don't know! What if your really, really, thirsty and you end up drinking everything from this bottomless grail/vessel.
What then, huh. What if you run out of mojo, were do you refill it up then.

You know just saying, just in case that theory is put to the test.

Synesthesits are thought by some neurologists to be a preview into mankind's future: a time when our sensory apparatus will be more effectively networked.
Whatever, I want to taste Ode to Joy, but I can't. I can sort of see it, and I'll make do with that.

I would not be so happy go lucky even if that is true, which to some degrees I know it is. But lets just say that there are some things which I would not want to see or taste with those new found sensory apparatuses, there is always a down to every up, a negative for every positive.

How do I know? Don't ask, but I knows stuffs.
Because I am like lucky in seeing and getting the negative and sometimes I am like a magnet for it all.

Its a cool concept and I can see how it can be sort of done and exist, this whole Synesthesia thing does sound interesting. Kind of like upgrading from the ol tube box, to the new fancy 3d picto tubes out there, only way more cooler. It would be something to see and experience. But like I said some things are best not seen or experienced, or who knows maybe those things to have there purposes in the grand scope of things.

Also I though of another thing.
What if the cup runneth over and floods your house or place.
It would not be good, messy, have to clean up the place then, but if its filled with whatever your talking about. Then I suppose it would be a good thing if the cup runneth over.

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

Originally posted by blazenresearcher
I'm sure it has already been mentioned, but the holy grail is within...

The power to self govern is found within. To hang on to self governance each individual must own their own means of productions, the very definition of the "pursuit of happiness." AKA freedom! Some Temple of Yahweh teachings there for ya. The opposite is bondage of course through others owning you and your means of productions. AKA slavery. Some Babylonian teachings there, the way of Babylon. Perpetual debt and being a life long employee to someone who owns your job.

Contract everything you do and never barrow a dime. The way of thee Yahweh.

Metaphorically speaking, follow the Shepard so you're not eaten by wolves.

It's the wine inside the vessel that matters, the wine is the word, the Truth, the template of how to create "Heaven on Earth." It's the knowledge of how to obtain true freedom.

U contradicted yourself when U said this:

"follow the Shepard so you're not eaten by wolves."

To follow is Bondage, sew be the Shepard, then the wolves eat the sheeple.

Ribbit

Lets put it this way, I follow a credit counselor's or financial adviser's advice to develop an action plan to get my butt out of debt. Now in that analogy I do believe I would be following a shepherd to lead me out of debt bondage which the creditors wolves have enslaved me in.

PS I see I spelled the common last name Shepard for shepherd. My bad. I guess because I used a cap for the spelling my mind must have shifted gears for spelling the common surname in lieu of the proper spelling for the correct term needed without my realizing it.

I have to quit daydreaming and watching TV while I'm posting something. Just call me, ADD-lil-Dude

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

Originally posted by blazenresearcher
I'm sure it has already been mentioned, but the holy grail is within...

The power to self govern is found within. To hang on to self governance each individual must own their own means of productions, the very definition of the "pursuit of happiness." AKA freedom! Some Temple of Yahweh teachings there for ya. The opposite is bondage of course through others owning you and your means of productions. AKA slavery. Some Babylonian teachings there, the way of Babylon. Perpetual debt and being a life long employee to someone who owns your job.

Contract everything you do and never barrow a dime. The way of thee Yahweh.

Metaphorically speaking, follow the Shepard so you're not eaten by wolves.

It's the wine inside the vessel that matters, the wine is the word, the Truth, the template of how to create "Heaven on Earth." It's the knowledge of how to obtain true freedom.

U contradicted yourself when U said this:

"follow the Shepard so you're not eaten by wolves."

To follow is Bondage, sew be the Shepard, then the wolves eat the sheeple.

Ribbit

Lets put it this way, I follow a credit counselor's or financial adviser's advice to develop an action plan to get my butt out of debt. Now in that analogy I do believe I would be following a shepherd to lead me out of debt bondage which the creditors wolves have enslaved me in.

PS I see I spelled the common last name Shepard for shepherd.

My bad. I guess because I used a cap for the spelling my mind must have shifted gears for spelling the common surname in lieu of the proper spelling for the correct term needed without my realizing it.

I have to quit daydreaming and watching TV while I'm posting something. Just call me, ADD-lil-Dude

eYe didn't catch that either sew eYe guess We watch the same channel. The Cartoon Netwerk is the chit, ain't it!

An advisor is kNot a shepherd, because the sheeple don't follow the shepherd, they are flocked by the shepherd, their movement is controlled. To ask for advice from a respected source, is to be your own shepherd, because what you dew with the advice is your choice, the sheeple don't have a choice, they OBEY the shepherd.

Ribbit

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


If I seek advice I am selecting a shepherd. I think what you are talking about are sheep in a flock following each other lead by wolves dressed up as lead sheep.

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

If I seek advice I am selecting a shepherd. I think what you are talking about are sheep in a flock following each other lead by wolves dressed up as lead sheep.

Shepherd:

Noun: A person who tends and rears sheep.

Adviser/Advisor:

Noun: An expert who gives advice;

The sheep follow the shepherd's ORDERS, kNot advice, sew your advisor isn't a shepherd.

You have a choice, the sheeple think they have no choice, they must OBEY the shepherd for their religion has taught them such!

Go 2 Sleep

Obey

Ribbit

Hello Graal enthusiasts and ponderers upon spiritual transhumance,

I have some thoughts on this whole 'sheep and shephard' thing.


Part 1:

How is it that referring to others as sheep came in to the common vernacular of the 'new age'? One of the things that I have learned after several years of pursuing all of this mysterious stuff, is that it is a closed loop of texts and literature; hang around long enough and you will have seen it all before. What I am getting at is that there exists a sort of 'old boys' network, within the field of occult pursuit, just like in any other field of interest or work. And the 'old timers', through personal interaction and through their texts, try to pass on like a virus that which they learned from their predecessors. It's true.

What I am trying to point out here is that the concept of 'sleeping sheeple that need to awaken from their slumber' has been around for a really long time. I am not talking about biblical shephards here (yet). I am talking specifically of how this meme came to be in the last century or so and how it has come to be carried so far forward that certain 'new age' or 'spiritual' types can just drop the word 'sheeple' in 2012 and expect that everyone knows what they mean (an absurd assumption, in my opinion).

Here is a quote from Gurdjieff, as reported by P.D. Ouspensky, 1919.

"There is an Eastern tale which speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where his sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines, and so on, and above all they ran away, for they knew that the magician wanted their flesh and skins and this they did not like.

At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it. Further the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians.

And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins."

- Gurdjieff quoted by P.D. Ouspensky, In Search of the Miraculous, 1949.

en.wikipedia.org...

So all I mean to point out there is that the story and meme have an origin within a closed loop of literature that we have all been feeding off of. It may be useful to look as closely as we can to the root of how this came in to the vernacular. It may be useful to trash the meme altogether in lieu of original thought based on where we have come from. But I always cringe when I hear that term thrown down like, 'yeah, we all know that'.

Part 2:

Why is everyone so easy and non-chalant about throwing down the sheep thing? And, for instance one member mentioned that The Graal and stories of Knighthood and all that are just meant to be a pretty leash?

Folks seem to be able to recognize that pretty easily.

But what about our inner propensity as human beings for being leashed and for being herded?

How come that is not recognized first? Look, I hate to do this but it really is Trump 15, boys and girls, that is what I find reflected in that sort of thought and behaviour; defeatism. Here, I will make a caption for Trump 15 to explain...



"No, really, we're screwed. Seriously" "The devil really has us by the short hairs". "Even though any moron can see that the chains are so big that a child could set us free, Nah, we're hosed, for life".

Look, I would like to offer that our inner ability to be herded is our super-power. Not some fatal flaw. Despite what Gurdjieff said in that quote he thought so too. See how it gets misunderstood? I won't spoil the fun for you. You can now go look up Gurdjieff and see for yourself.

This ability we have to engage in spiritual transhumance is our true power. But we deny it because we all want to go on lying to one another and ourselves. It requires more honesty and cooperation from all of us and we are just not ready to go there. Because we are selfish and fearful, I think.

A little more to follow...

Originally posted by Xoanon

How is it that referring to others as sheep came in to the common vernacular of the 'new age'?

How?

"Birds of a feather flock together."

The definition of flock is:

Verb: Congregate or mass in a flock or large group.

Defintition of Birds of a Feather:

Noun: Group of peeps with similar interests and/or like minded.

The #1 Flock is Stoopidity:




"Stoopid iz what Stoopid duz and Stoopid flocks because it's smart to flock when U'r Stoopid."


Ribbit

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

If I seek advice I am selecting a shepherd. I think what you are talking about are sheep in a flock following each other lead by wolves dressed up as lead sheep.

Shepherd:

Noun: A person who tends and rears sheep.

Adviser/Advisor:

Noun: An expert who gives advice;

The sheep follow the shepherd's ORDERS, kNot advice, sew your advisor isn't a shepherd.

You have a choice, the sheeple think they have no choice, they must OBEY the shepherd for their religion has taught them such!

Go 2 Sleep

Obey

Ribbit

You can follow a shepherd and be protected from wolves, choice A. You can go it alone, and get eaten by wolves, choice B. And so you are saying choice C is what exactly? Please educate me?

reply to post by Xoanon


Xoanon, I guess we all could follow the FOX. www.sicklycat.com...

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


Mob dynamics: not great. Herd dynamics: scarcely better.

And these are the only two variations we are told exist when it comes to how humans aggregate. The sheeple thing enables those marginalized from the in-group to feel better about their alienation. The outsider is shunned for his superior intellect and keen perception, all those hateful sheeple reject him because they r dum.

There are plenty of cases where flocking is beneficial, and more are added to the list as our communication tech improves. The more the individual is empowered to offer input to any given group, the higher the intelligence quotient of the group in its totality. The richer the web of communication becomes, the more resilient the group is to abuse by would-be shepherds.

The sheeple effect results from everyone getting their info from a limited number of controlled sources, and by being unable to communicate laterally with one another. We've got a fix. We can be shoal of fish evading predation through unified action rather than fleecable livestock. Pretty sweet.

en.wikipedia.org...

Part 3: Pastoralist Power.


Tuareg Herdsman. North African Sahara.

We have all been told that we are 'rugged individualists'. And we believed it, and so as a result we have been atomized and isolated from one another. We have been rendered useless to one another by suspicion and selfishness. We all experience the light every day in whatever small (or large) way we can but look at society; am I wrong?

Being 'Sheeple' is our super power, that's what I believe. The ease with which we have been leashed or herded is only indicative of our greatest ability; to come together, in consensus, to get things done societally. The great power of this ability is foreshadowed by it's simple lack. It is not a flaw. It only means that we have been and will continue to be taken advantage of.

When we are isolated and atomized we are weak and can be smashed like bugs.

When we are 'herded' together under a common purpose we can get # done like never before. Why do we limit ourselves (!?)?

Why do we lie and tell ourselves we like it like this? I think Tyler Durden said it best: "

"You are not special. You are not a
beautiful or unique snowflake. You are
the same decaying organic matter as
everything else."

~Tyler~

whitewolf.htmlplanet.com...

That quote from Tyler can be compared to one of the mechanisms of control used by the Evil Magician from my previous post. The point is that we are decimated and kept from coming together because we are told that we are special and unique, and do not need 'the others' re: sheeple.

Pretty f'cked trick to pull on someone, I would say.

So,

Where is an example of successful Pastoralists and shephards kicking global ass by using consenus power?

How about Ghenghis MF'ing Khan?



en.wikipedia.org...

There's a mighty Shephard for you.

Pastoralists and nomads are a huge threat to the whole idea of modern agriculture and really, modern society. Not 'rugged individualists'. Pastoralists and shephards have always been the huge 'wild-card' threat.

Just look at the histories of The Gabra People, The Tuareg People, and other groups and the way that they are treated, and the programs of slow eradication that are killing them. Also see American 'bikers'.

What made Mongol's successful, in part, was their ability to live off the land, and when it came down to it, it was their ability to live off of your land if they wanted to. They were in no way connected to cities for sustenance. It nearly destroyed Europe, land of 'rugged individualists' and incestuous intercine familial in-fighting.

So, personally, I choose to follow a 'shephard'. The shephard has changed at times as I have gone along, but I guess I just have a penchant for 'bhakti'. Presently I try to follow The Choargus of Plotinus and I hope to dance an inspired dance, if I can only catch the tune of my shephard's pipes.

X.

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

You can follow a shepherd and be protected from wolves, choice A. You can go it alone, and get eaten by wolves, choice B. And so you are saying choice C is what exactly?

Please educate me?

Choice C: Be the Shepherd!

Shepherds are armed with a stick to ward off the Big Bad Wolf. That stick is the Stick of Truth, or, in the case of a toad, a Puddle of Pee. Sew with the Stick of Truth, you are never alone. Plus, the unspoken Rule of Toads is: We never sit in another toad's puddle.

Ribbit

Ps: eYe find it interesting you chose "C" as the THIRD choice, since that's the scientific symbol for Light.

Originally posted by Eidolon23

The sheeple effect results from everyone getting their info from a limited number of controlled sources, and by being unable to communicate laterally with one another.

And the chickenz/sheeple don't realize what's the true purpose of a formal government organized/sanctioned education?

"Educated minds think their educations." - Tadpole Proverb

Ribbit

And to bring it back around to the point of the OP,

The reason the Knights went questing is not because each of them separately and simultaneously decided it would be cool to go look for the Graal.

They did it because they had a single mind to restore the Kingdom.

They had lost their shephard. King Arthur lay dying with a critical wound to his thigh.

For the consensual and common good they set out to restore the Graal and heal the King.

X.

Originally posted by Xoanon
And to bring it back around to the point of the OP,

The reason the Knights went questing is not because each of them separately and simultaneously decided it would be cool to go look for the Graal.

They did it because they had a single mind to restore the Kingdom.

They had lost their shephard. King Arthur lay dying with a critical wound to his thigh.

For the consensual and common good they set out to restore the Graal and heal the King.

X.

Nice fictional bedtime story!

Will yew tell us Hansel & Gretel next? Or how's 'bout Goldielocks and the Three Bears? Or, fitting with the Shepherd, the Three Little Pigs?

Ribbit