The True Resting Place of the Grail

The Grail: our birthright, the means by which the Kingdom and its King may be healed. For centuries it has been hunted, hidden, tracked and traded. It leaves a glittering track through the history books, showing up in association with those who promoted learning, diplomacy, love and egalitarianism.

Just as the Dragon tells us of our primal urges before we knew of the reptile brain, could it be that the Grail tells us of another inner faculty?

One of the most prominent places the Grail pops up is at the court of Eleanor of Aquitaine.



Eleanor harnessed the martial energies of her vassals and redirected them into pursuits less likely to bankrupt them and their dependents than the usual pastime of slaughtering the Turks or one another. This is her coronation cup, the Chalice of Suger. It is as good a contender as any for the genuine article. The Sardonyx vessel dates from the 1st cent., and was set into the metalwork by Eleanor's pet abbot.



Eleanor also associated with Joachim de Fiore. He's an apocoholic. They had them then too. He thought, and got into hot water for it, that man would experience three ages.

Whereas the first age (the Father) had been characterized by the law, fear, and servitude, and the second age (the Son) had been ne of faith and filial submission, the new dispensation (the Holy Spirit) would be one of love, joy, and freedom. The knowledge of God would no longer be mediated but would come in direct revelations from God to the hearts of men.

The Grail as the overflowing heart. In the Ace of Cups image, we have the Holy Spirit as a dove descending to the Chalice.

Hildegard of Bingen was a contemporary and frequent correspondent of Joachim. During a transcendental experience, she reported the following sensations:

...a burning light of tremendous brightness coming from heaven poured into my entire mind, like a flame that does not burn but enkindles. It inflamed my entire heart and breast, like the sun that warms an object with its rays.

Just as the reptile brain is encoded as the Dragon (or the Reptilian in the modern semiotic parlance), the new brain is encoded as the Grail.

The blood in the Grail is meant to indicate that the principles of empathy, compassion, mercy, and bonhomie are passed down. Heritable. Part of us.

There is a Grail within us all waiting to overflow.

This thread came about because I'm experiencing something that sounds very like what Hildegard experienced. And it came strongly to me that this sensation in my chest is grail shaped. I discussed it with a friend who is also experiencing this sensation. He found an article titled, "The Illumined Heart".

The Grail is the heart, illumined and awakened so that it may serve as a receptacle for divine energies.

I was doubly tickled, as this guy went exactly where I did with it, in terms of looking at the civilizing effect on power.

Today it is common to click one's tongue at the ceaseless and internecine warfare and brutalities of that era. No one can deny that these took place. But we must also acknowledge the context. The people at whom this ethos was directed were not sensitive modern-day Californians who do T'ai Chi regularly and take their holidays at Esalen; they were only a few generations removed from the barbarians who sacked the Roman Empire. The myth of the Grail and the chivalric ideal were probably the best means of introducing some moderation into the violent culture of the era. Possibly those who formulated the Grail ethos realized that their solution was imperfect; most realistic solutions are.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.

The dragon (or snake, which 'hugs' the earth, as in Genesis) would be a symbol for the primal physical urge; mans animal nature, in other words, and the holy grail (or, 'sword in the stone', ) would be those spiritual properties, potentialities for love/compassion/justice. passed on from one generation to another. The former would be justified by the positivist interpretation of the physical brain, and the latter, as well?

All this seems more or less arbitrary, if you ask me.

Originally posted by dontreally
The former would be justified by the positivist interpretation of the physical brain, and the latter, as well?

I think it very well could be (which will likely throw positivists into foaming fits). We've been explaining ourselves to ourselves through symbols and narrative ever since we sprouted thumbs. It seems to me that we were able to come to an apprehension of the nature of our composite brains by observing and codifying behavioral trends some time before neuroscience provided the empirical understanding.

i doubt the Holy Grail survived. and wouldn't any cup that Jesus drank out of be holy.

remember it was the cup jesus drank out of when He said "this is my blood...", it's not the cup that's important, it's what was in it.

that night he was betrayed and arrested. the disciples scattered. i doubt any one had the thought or inclination to go back, get it and keep it for save keeping.

in the end, the miracle was what transpired in the cup, not the cup itself.

You do know he had a daughter ... riiight ? and she was"the holy grail" , they were looking for the wrong thing , that`s what the codes are about , his daughter ........ i thought all of this was over and done with now ?

I cannot believe that people still believe the grail to be an actual drinking vessel/cup/goblet. The crusaders searched and searched for years for something that never existed!! There are thousands of ceremonial drinking vessels throughout the world and throughout history, but the message of the Holy Grail was misunderstood many years ago and somebody cleverly made people think it was a drinking vessel used at the last supper. Get real folks. Jesus was a normal Jewish guy, married to Mary Magdelene - they had a daughter Sara and Mary herself carries the bloodline of Jesus - she is the grail. If you want to find the Holy Grail, go to France - her remains are there, Basilicas in Vezelay and Saint-Maximin, both claim to house her remains.

This bloodline crap: it sells books.

I am talking about Love One Another as a biological reality. Empathy, romantic love, temperance: these things light up on an MRI in the most recently evolved portions of our brains.

We are all descendants of Christ. The final resting place of the Grail is in your heart.

didn't you see the movie ? it was a carpenters cup, a simple wooden cup

Originally posted by RockLobster
You do know he had a daughter ... riiight ? and she was"the holy grail" , they were looking for the wrong thing , that`s what the codes are about , his daughter ........ i thought all of this was over and done with now ?

just remember, you bought that book in the fiction section of the store

reply to post by syrinx high priest




Too right.

It's not about selling books at all - it's truth of history, not tainted by those who need glorious stories to control the masses. Let me enlighten you on some real facts of history.
In the centuries following her death, legends surrounding Mary Magdalene evolved. Speculation has abounded about the relationship between St. Mary Magdalene and Jesus, some even saying that Mary was pregnant with Jesus' child at the time of his death. According to the writings of Gregory of Tours and Greek Orthodox Church tradition, the saint retired to Ephesus with John and died there, and her body (or relics) was moved in 886 to Constantinople. Other stories hold that she moved to Gaul after Jesus' crucifixion or to a desert to live out her life in isolation.

One French tradition, recounted in Jacobus de Voragine's The Golden Legend, and which first surfaced in the ninth century, holds that Mary Magdalene travelled with a small group that included Joseph of Arimethea and Lazarus and his sister Martha, sailing to France and spreading the Christian gospel throughout the area that is now Provence. Retiring to a small home on a hill at Sainte-Baume, she lived as a recluse for several decades until her death. According to this tradition, Mary's body was interred at Villa Lata (later St. Maximin), in Aix-de-Provence. In the 730s and 740s, according to historian Sigebert, fear of Saracen raids prompted the temporary transfer of Mary Magdalene's remains to Vézelay. Many centuries later, in 1279, a Dominican convent was built at Sainte-Baume on orders of King Charles II of Naples, and an ancient shrine was uncovered. In 1600 the remains discovered there were protected by a sarcophagus on order of Pope Clement VIII. Following the Napoleonic wars, the convent at Sainte-Baume was rebuilt and the ancient tomb reconsecrated. Although the site has been a traditional place of pilgrimage, the Roman Catholic Church does not support the contention that the remains at Sainte-Baume are those of Mary Magdalene.

As Lynn Picknett recounted in her book Mary Magdalene: Christianity's Hidden Goddess, belief in Mary Magdalene has been so strong that many have been martyred because of it. On St. Mary's feast day of July 22, 1206, for example, every man, woman, and child living in the small French town of Béziers was massacred by crusaders from Rome, because they were unwilling to relinquish their belief that Mary had once been the lover of Jesus.

The popular French name Madeleine is derived from the word Magdalene.

Are you talking about Mary Magdalene, the wife of Jesus?

reply to post by Eidolon23

We've been explaining ourselves to ourselves through symbols and narrative ever since we sprouted thumbs.

I agree with that. It's all in line already with the Hermetic axiom "as above so below". What's "above" i.e. in the mental world, of concepts/archetypes, is reflected below, in physical objects. This is the whole basis of sympathetic magic.

Obviously, anyone with experience with the latter knows there MUST be an objective relationship between the spiritual/mental and the physical/material realms. It's hardly surprising that the part of the physical brain associated with instinct resembles that of a reptiles, since the reptile embodies the same spiritual qualities early man associated with their own animal-instinctual habits. Thus, man's brain - as microcosm, the reptile, as an element present in the physical macrocosm, both reflect the spiritual archetype of instinct (which would be the macrocosm) in it's own modality.

What I'm not quite understanding is the importance you're ascribing to the christian symbol of the grail. The grail is entirely arbitrary. No more special than the sword in the stone, the 'fountain of youth', shambhala, Garden of Eden, (which are examples of a geographical location serving as a representation of the archetypal reality ) or Joseph's special "coat" - coveted by his brothers but given to him alone from Jacob. This coat, according to Rabbinic legend, was passed from Adam down the line of Seth (who was 'in the image of Adam') to Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, (interestingly, the coat was briefly with Esau, but Esau, being a symbol of the hypocrite, or one who's actions aren't in line with his morals/beliefs, wasn't able to retain the coat, or the ability to transmit i.e. ingrain, the spiritual characteristics of his forefathers to later generations. Rebekah (lit. to connect'), a symbol for foresight, understood that, and therefore 'stole' the quality/garment from esau, and gave it over to the true son i.e Jacob) and many many others. Jacob himself is a representation of the same archetype/potentiality, as the grail legend of the middle ages. Always in the Bible, whenever the birthright is passed down, it's given to the 2nd born, and not the first born. Abel was favored instead of Cain. Isaac was favored instead of his older brother Ishmael. Jacob was favored instead of Esau (who came out first). Joseph instead of Rueben. The older is indicative of the immature - that first presence. In the case of Cain (from the root 'to possess') it is the base egotism which man experiences first (in his earliest years) before the spiritual functions which come as a consequence of society enter and become a part of his being. Cain offers the vegetable i.e. merely an outward service, in other words, one which doesn't change his internal structure. But Abel (Hevel in Hebrew, meaning 'vapor') considers himself as nothing, and so offers his animal, his lower, instinctual 'animal', or the 'snake/dragon' as a service to God. Abel is that MATURED part which follows. Likewise, Isaac and likewise Jacob. Jacob comes second, behind Esau who is of a 'ruddy complexion', alluding to the same physical prowess. Esau is a 'man of the field' - a hunter, one can almost say, Esau is the patron of the aristocratic tendency. Esau will do and say whatever to give the impression of being a certain way, because to Esau, the 'birthright' i.e. the spiritual qualities, are not as valuable as those things of temporal import; such as the lentil soup Jacob used to procure the birthright. Esau sells his soul, in other words, for things of physical value. Esau misjudges, Jacob does not.

It seems to me that we were pretty well able to come to an apprehension of the nature of our composite brains by observing and codifying behavioral trends well before anatomy and neuroscience gave us the empirical understanding.

That seems to be the case. The priest philosophers of ancient times were psychologists/metaphysicians/healers/sociologists/architects/cooks etc rolled up into one personage. Only with the modern age have we broken these sciences up into different fields; "psychology", "sociology" etc, even though since ancient times these areas were bound up (and one could argue, at an esoteric level, still are) with metaphysics proper. In India this is mostly still the case.

I'm also sure it's not so much "man teaching man" - I wont give man that much credit. I'd rather say it is the "divine" - the transcendent, 'non-man' instructing man of his intrinsic nature.

I think Comte was an arrogant fool and a half to imagine that 'positivism' could replace metaphysics. And to enshrine such a philosophical approach in a religious way? To try to turn that philosophical approach - which discounted metaphysics-ontology, into something worthy of worship? Talk about hypocrisy.

Of course I am - didn't you read my previous post. The Holy Grail, as a chalice or cup is a nonsense - it never existed!! Jesus drank from the same cups as the other apostles at the last supper - examine Leonardo's painting of the last supper - no wonderful ornate, chalice in sight!! What is evident, is Mary Magdalene, on Jesus's right, behind John The Baptist - clearly, Leonardo using his artistic license to send a message. As he was a custodian of the truth, like many famous and great people throughout our history - holders of the truth who promised the church that they would go along with the bible crap so that the masses could be controlled - the bible is no more than a rule book and a book of guidelines, using examples (stories) to show the masses the right way to live and behave. Remember, before we had governments, the church ruled everyone. They needed the story book (bible) to control. The real secrets are locked away in the Vatican libraries and are unlikely to surface.
The bible was written by normal laypeople of the day, a tax collector, a fisherman, etc. The original scriptures in Hebrew have been embellished and massaged in translation to make it look like Jesus was some kind of mega-being. For example, the hebrew word for "on" is the same word for "by". Jesus walked BY the water, not ON the water.
Mankind has been misled for over 2000 years.

Originally posted by dontreally
Always in the Bible, whenever the birthright is passed down, it's given to the 2nd born, and not the first born. Abel was favored instead of Cain. Isaac was favored instead of his older brother Ishmael. Jacob was favored instead of Esau (who came out first). Joseph instead of Rueben. The older is indicative of the immature - that first presence. In the case of Cain (from the root 'to possess') it is the base egotism which man experiences first (in his earliest years) before the spiritual functions which come as a consequence of society enter and become a part of his being. Cain offers the vegetable i.e. merely an outward service, in other words, one which doesn't change his internal structure. But Abel (Hevel in Hebrew, meaning 'vapor') considers himself as nothing, and so offers his animal, his lower, instinctual 'animal', or the 'snake/dragon' as a service to God. Abel is that MATURED part which follows. Likewise, Isaac and likewise Jacob. Jacob comes second, behind Esau who is of a 'ruddy complexion', alluding to the same physical prowess. Esau is a 'man of the field' - a hunter, one can almost say, Esau is the patron of the aristocratic tendency. Esau will do and say whatever to give the impression of being a certain way, because to Esau, the 'birthright' i.e. the spiritual qualities, are not as valuable as those things of temporal import; such as the lentil soup Jacob used to procure the birthright. Esau sells his soul, in other words, for things of physical value. Esau misjudges, Jacob does not.

Found this through google: How second-born boys really are prodigal sons

The Bible tells the story of a wayward second son who rebels against his father while his responsible older brother stays home and works hard. Now scientists have proved the tale of the Prodigal Son has the ring of truth. First-born children are more conservative, while their younger siblings are more likely to be rebels, they found.

'Second-born children showed increases in traits like adventurousness and independence across adolescence, whereas in first-borns, these traits did not change much over time,' a spokesman for the researchers said. 'These findings are consistent with the idea that first-borns conform more, while second-borns are more likely to rebel.'

reply to post by Eidolon23




Thank you for another beautiful and elegant thread, Eidolon.

If I follow where you are going with your OP; are you suggesting that the Limbic, or reptilian part of the brain could represent the 'Dragons' that humanity has had to battle and defeat. And that the battle is being fought to bring the new paradigm of Love, represented by the more newly discovered parts of the brain that govern Romance and human bonding, and that that aspect is represented by the Graal?

If so, I am completely down with where you are going with this.

Thank you for your really fine OP, and especially your original thought and writing.

X.

reply to post by Eidolon23
This is a very interesting metaphysical -type picture of The Knights Templar ! Do you have a source for this..just wondering. Btw, I'm a big fan of the Dark Ages and most recently acquired materials of Eleanor of Acquitaine. I'm looking forward to delving into material I've never seen before.

reply to post by Eidolon23

The holy grail is nothing but 'A 'Holy' 'Girl'.Grail='A GIRL'

reply to post by dontreally


Dude, why are the two mutually exclusive?

As we come to a better understanding of Medium, do we not also come to a better understanding of the Sender?