The True Resting Place of the Grail

Originally posted by Xoanon
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

If I follow where you are going with your OP; are you suggesting that the Limbic, or reptilian part of the brain could represent the 'Dragons' that humanity has had to battle and defeat.

Defeat? Personally, no, I don't think so.

I think all the dragon-rider stuff we've been accumulating in the last few decades points to another approach.

reply to post by MsCrowley


Awesome. I'm thinking that the Grail shift is something that has tried to happen several times within the most recent course of our history.

Maybe we have the amount of knowledge and momentum we finally need.

reply to post by Bazza147


Hey, mang.

I'm totally versed in this stuff. I went to a High School where the world history teacher included "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" on the syllabus. But as with so many other simple truths, the real lesson is obscured by what is encrusted around it.

And that the battle is being fought to bring the new paradigm of Love, represented by the more newly discovered parts of the brain that govern Romance and human bonding, and that that aspect is represented by the Graal?

Romance. Yeah, we can't get around it. Chivalry, the sublimation of the erotic drive, the inverted protector instinct.

Here's where we are told how the grail is lost, and it's more than the King's groin wound:

www.lib.rochester.edu...

King Amangon was the first to violate their hospitality:
He behaved wickedly and underhandedly;
Afterwards many others did likewise
Because of the example given
By the king who should have protected the maidens
And guarded and kept them safe.
He forced himself upon one of the maidens
And deflowered her against her will
And took the golden bowl from her
And carried it off along with the girl,
Then had her serve him ever afterwards.
Ill luck was to come of it,
For no maiden served again
Or came forth from that well
To help any man who happened by
And requested sustenance there

How did a poor carpenter get a gold, jewel encrusted chalice? They only use a cup such as the one shown to stir emotion in people. It was HIS cup so it must be an expensive, elaborate, gleaming one. If the bible is true, he was a carpenter. So, again, where would he get a cup like THAT?

reply to post by DAVID64


He had to merit it.

And so do we all.

Originally posted by randomname
i doubt the Holy Grail survived. and wouldn't any cup that Jesus drank out of be holy.

remember it was the cup jesus drank out of when He said "this is my blood...", it's not the cup that's important, it's what was in it.

that night he was betrayed and arrested. the disciples scattered. i doubt any one had the thought or inclination to go back, get it and keep it for save keeping.

in the end, the miracle was what transpired in the cup, not the cup itself.

i gotta contend with that...

the clean up crew, Mary the Mother and Mary Magdelin were likely two of the trusted women believers
who were entrusted with the act of cleaning up after the Last Supper in that Upper Room while the men folk went to the Garden to relax

One of the Mary's surely set that 'cup' aside, in as much that Jesus signified its importance by saying the wine was now his blood...

whichever Mary recovered the Last Supper 'cup' (aka: Grail) more than likely brought the cup along with the burial shroud to the impromptu burial that late after-noon/twilight period before Sundown,

because the Teacher Jesus had very little in material possessions Mary brought the Last Supper 'cup' as a burial item, instead of him having nothing to show of this world except a battered body with wounded hands, feet,& a stab wound to his side

the Roman that stuck him with the 'Spear of Destiny' most likely retired the lance/spear to his personal armory because the Jesus was a minor rebel and insurrectionist according to the Jewish religious leaders and the Roman occupation.

when ever the 2 Mary's came to the tomb the next day and found it open... they retrieved the 'cup' and the tossed aside and bloodied burial cloth (shroud of Turin?) then likely hid these items from the inner circle and the larger circle of believers... because there was likely more Judas betrayers in the fold.


how, where, the 'holy grail' went from there is mostly speculation... maybe Jesus used the 'cup' during the 40-days he instructed the disciples after the resurrection and before he got caught-up-in-a-cloud

reply to post by LastProphet527


Well, the vag symbolism is super straight forward. Which dovetails (hee) with the feminine association ascribed to empathy, compassion, etc.

But some have been too forward.

The Grail is the womb of the beloved.

-Robert Anton Wilson

Meh, yes and no, you see. Apply the blood symbolism, and you might get urpy. Birth is a bloody, screaming thing. No one wants a goblet full of blood.

But the milk of human kindness? The milk flows from a bloody process. Maybe now we all get to get fed, after so much blood.

reply to post by Eidolon23


I confess when I hear of the holly grail, or questing for things that are far and out there. The first thing that comes to my mind is Monty Python and the quest for the holly grail, more specifically that part were Arthur is riding trough the fog on his imaginary horse, while his squire mimics horse trots by banging two coconuts together.

And then he comes to the castle, and the questions. And important questions at that.


But like you said I am pretty sure the whole grail and especially knight thing, was just something that was created to divert the energy's of the not that far removed from sacking Rome bands of merry men. Your friendly neighborhood roaming hoards. And so they were given another name, a more fancy name, to be pulled in other directions for more nobler goals, and so they pillaged in those directions.

Some were known as the crusades, others by other names. It seems it was all just another name for the same ol thing, a beast on a fancy chain being pulled in a different direction. Dancing to a different beat. And as such, through time, we progressed to today, and its new names and even fancier chains, and even nobler goals.

I don't quite get were your trying to go with this grail as the heart thing, but wherever it is no doubt I will stumble along as we all will....Right.

Symbols mean so many different things and throughout the ages, even the same symbol have meant different things to different people in different times. How can one thing mean two completely different things? How can it not! And you would be lucky if it was only two meanings only, and not somewhere in the thousands of different meanings for the same thing.

For instance the dragon, in some more eastern parts it is a symbol of strength, courage, fortune, wisdom and even fertility. And dragons are more oft then not, considered helpful benevolent entities and impartial creatures and entities.

And in other places, they are the symbol and represent all things evil, bad, corrupt, even hoarders of treasures, also they are greedy as well, and probably smell really bad to. And in the bible! a best selling book on this planet, a dragon is even the ultimate bad guy.

As you can see, it's all on how you look at it.

A chalice as the heart, is bound to be chastised by many who have other images in there heads to describe the thing which moves them. But to me there all the same thing...somewhat...kind of...not really sure...but hey... sure...why not... its all groovy. I can dig it, if you can dig it.

But sometimes its like looking for impossible things, or maybe for things that always existed, and we just never knew they existed. That is, till we began searching for them.

And other times, were just chasing after shadows.

In the desert to the weary, everything is a mirage.

This poem by poe expresses it well. One of my favorite poems to.

Gaily bedight, A gallant night
In sunshine and in shadow,
Had journeyed long, Singing a song,
In search of El Dorado.
But he grew old --
This knight so bold --
And, o'er his heart a shadow
Fell as he found
No spot of ground
That looked like El Dorado.
And, as his strength Failed him at length,
He met a pilgrim shadow.
"Shadow," said he,
"Where can it be.
This land of El Dorado?"
"Over the Mountains Of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow''
Ride, boldly ride.
The shade replied.
"If you seek for El Dorado."

reply to post by Eidolon23
You state that you believe what Hildegaard experienced and are experiencing that now and believe it is grail -shaped. I think it's wonderful you are having a spiritual awakening however you imagine it. The problem here lies with your identifying with St. Hildegaard in respect to your experience. Perhaps you need to make it your own instead of trying to compare it to someone else's no matter how long dead. You are having this awakening for a reason and it's my humble opinion it would be recommended to you to keep a journal of your experiences in what applies to you.. Spiritual journeys don't happen overnight. It's nice reading here you've posted OP & the pics are wonderful but you've seem to have mis-placed the original intent of your post about your spiritual awakening and everyone seems not to have picked up your original point. History is history and no one of us can change that can we? I'd love to hear more about your spiritual journey without you having to delve into the Dark Ages and other people wildly criticizing the deep deep symbolism of the Holy Grail. Much luck to you on this journey and please post more about it.!

Originally posted by MsCrowley
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

Perhaps you need to make it your own instead of trying to compare it to someone else's no matter how long dead.

Well, uh, here's the thing. I experience a lot of "emotional" states as physical sensations. Which I thought everyone did, until I learned otherwise (age 18). My physical experience differs from Hildegard's.

So there is this ringing, pulsating sensation in my chest. It ebbs and flows in intensity, but it's been a solid thing for about three months. During which time I've experienced an unprecedented richness in human interaction. She's been dead a while, but yeah.

I recognize that feeling.

Originally posted by LastProphet527
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

The holy grail is nothing but 'A 'Holy' 'Girl'.Grail='A GIRL'

I think you can drink wine out of both. That's only if her cup is pointed up.

reply to post by LilDudeissocool


There's wine, and then there's Wine, eh?

Yeah, wurd.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

But like you said I am pretty sure the whole grail and especially knight thing, was just something that was created to divert the energy's of the not that far removed from sacking Rome bands of merry men. Your friendly neighborhood roaming hoards. And so they were given another name, a more fancy name, to be pulled in other directions for more nobler goals, and so they pillaged in those directions.

Yeah, pretty much. Which is why redirecting warriors into Gamez is a dirty band-aid at best. But it's the best band-aid we've had so far, and it's still being used. Oh, sweet X-box.

Some were known as the crusades, others by other names. It seems it was all just another name for the same ol thing, a beast on a fancy chain being pulled in a different direction. Dancing to a different beat. And as such, trough time, we progressed to today, and its new names and even fancier chains, and even nobler goals.

Exactly, dude. The Grail has been used as a leash. I don't think it's meant to be that.

I don't quite get were your trying to go with this grail as the heart thing,

Me either, entirely. It's huge. There's been some very good input on this thread, and I'm grateful.

Symbols mean so many different things and throughout the ages, even the same symbol have meant different things to different people in different times. How can one thing mean two completely different things? How can it not! And you would be lucky if it was only two meanings only, and not somewhere in the thousands of different meanings for the same thing.

True enough. But at least this one, the Grail, has a fairly consistent resonance?

For instance the dragon, in some more eastern parts it is a symbol of strength, courage, fortune, wisdom and even fertility. And dragons are more oft then not, considered helpful benevolent entities and impartial creatures and entities.

I do not agree with St. George (maybe he doesn't agree with himself). We need the Dragon.

And in other places, they are the symbol and represent all things evil, bad, corrupt, even hoarders of treasures, also they are greedy as well, and probably smell really bad to. And in the bible! a best selling book on this planet, a dragon is even the ultimate bad guy.

Fafnir, in this context. When excess resources become an abstraction, the Dragon turns into a hoarder.

But sometimes its like looking for impossible things, or maybe for things that always existed, and we just never knew they existed. That is, till we began searching for them.

We know more than we think we know, and always have.

El Dorado: the golden heart giving it away for free.

reply to post by Eidolon23


Eidolon23 in reply to your open I will tell you this. The Holy Grail is the symbolic symbol at the Last Super which symbolized the Blood of Christ. Blood was the euphemism of the time "word" in this case Holy Word. Jesus was a rabbi who believed in the roots of Solomon's Temple. The root of the Temple is a template for making "Heaven on Earth." A place with no earthly masters. That means no lenders or bowers be, in short, no debt, a form of slavery. Also no third ownerships of any kind, meaning no masters like Mitt Romney running around making money with money. In other words. That's a world where companies are owned 100% by their employees in the form of a producer coop. A private business model with no government involvement.

Back in the day of the Crusades when they were looking for this template the nobility of Europe feared it. Why? Because the Holy Grail spells out exactly how people can live without masters. It's also called the "Third Secret of Solomon's Temple" or just "Hiram's Secret. That's bad for business if you are part of the nobility. You need to own land and people along with keeping them in perpetual debt in order to live like nobility.

Now you know what the Holy Grail is.

Originally posted by Eidolon23
reply to post by LilDudeissocool

 

There's wine, and then there's Wine, eh?

Yeah, wurd.

Cool I leaned a new slang term www.urbandictionary.com... Youz Awesome!

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

Blood was the euphemism of the time "word" in this case Holy Word.

Not so long ago, language was law. Oral transmission = legal code.

Our civilizations are encoded into our great stories. Our major institutions are writ small in allegory. Blood as a euphemism of the Word. We may have to accept that just as our soft palettes adapt to linguistic function, and not the reverse, our development as a species may depend on the Word and how we interpret it.

Well, uh, here's the thing. I experience a lot of "emotional" states as physical sensations. Which I thought everyone did, until I learned otherwise (age 18). My physical experience differs from Hildegard's.

So there is this ringing, pulsating sensation in my chest. It ebbs and flows in intensity, but it's been a solid thing for about three months. During which time I've experienced an unprecedented richness in human interaction. She's been dead a while, but yeah.

Must be an interesting experience, because grails are just something you drink from to me. And another thing just occurred to me, I though I to experienced a lot of emotional states as physical sensations...But not like that, and definitively not to that degree. When I feel anything that is.

I suppose, it must be something like that one lady that can see and taste music as colors. A form of Synesthesia perhaps, or like I said some sort of crazy personal experience.

Truly you are weird.

reply to post by conspiracy88


That doesn't exactly accord with Biblical personalities. Cain, the firstborn, is the rebel, while Abel is the more conservative one. Cain builds cities, while Abel is a simple shepherd. Ishmael - the first born, is a 'wild donkey of a man' (Genesis 16:12) whereas Isaac stays home digging wells and studying. Jacob likewise, was a simple man wh spent his days inside the tents, whereas Esau - the first born - was the one who went out hunting game.

That piece you quoted seemed to invert the actual biblical archetype to suit it's purposes.

I don't deny that the 2nd born's are often more successful. I just don't think the dynamic of '2nd born lawlessness = good' while the 1st born conservative = bad.

I think it's much more complex than that.

Why we shouldn't slay any Dragons.

Joachim's illustration is not a progression: it is a medieval Venn diagram. We are meant to sustain all three selves at once. We shouldn't marginalize any of our functions. We ought to effectively utilize them all in harmony.