Exclusive: Marines Nazi-Flag Whistleblower Comes Forward

reply to post by ArMaP

but in this case the symbol was not supposed to be shown to the public (as far as I understand it), so I think they are just making too much out of nothing.

well for example. (just to cite an example!!)

child porn isn't something t hatis supposed to be shown to the general public.
yet sometimes they do wind up in the 'public domain'

does that make the act of taking the pictures any less wrong or right?

same goes for this picture.

just because it wasn't supposed to be shown to public, doesn't make it right.

Originally posted by kn0wh0w
but what´s more likely.

that the populace today will remember the symbol for what it once was.

That depends on the knowledge of the "populace", I'm sure a large percentage of today's youth do not even know what the Nazis were.

i think ALL of us should sometimes just take step back and think what our actions would do with other people's emotions and feelings.

I agree, but then we are going the way of the "politically correct", one of the most irritating things that people invented in the 20th century.

For example, did you step back and thought about all of what you wrote, to see if you may be offending someone? I do that most of the times, but just about the general tone of my posts, I do not reread everything, looking at each word, to see if I may offend someone. I also do not do that because I know that if someone is offended they can just say it and I will (if possible) change what I wrote.

If those Marines had no intention of showing the flag in public (and if they are not real neo-Nazis), why would they worry about the World's opinion about it?

(i know exactly what i want to say, but i don't know exactly how :lol

I understand what you mean.

Originally posted by kn0wh0w
well for example. (just to cite an example!!)

I don't think that example applies to this case, as that example uses something that is illegal, and, as far as I know, that symbol is only illegal in Germany, not in the US or in Afghanistan.

just because it wasn't supposed to be shown to public, doesn't make it right.

Do you behave exactly in the same way when you are alone and when you are in public? I do not (although there's not much difference), because when I'm alone I know that nobody will be offended by something I may do.

reply to post by 29INFDIV


They could of used any logo though couldn't they? they didn't have to use the SS sign.

Originally posted by ThePeopleParty
reply to post by 29INFDIV

 

They could of used any logo though couldn't they? they didn't have to use the SS sign.

well yeah i think so.

why risk all this controversy with using a logo to lookes so much like the nazi's SS logo.

reply to post by kn0wh0w


Here is my take on it..

As someone said... SS/Sniper Scout

Doesnt matter what it looks like.

NOW... If they were IN ISRAEL I could see that being an issue.

They are, instead, in a country involving a people that was helping HITLER.

So, honestly... I say.. That's a funny assed joke! The Irony.. Nazi's not commin to help yo ass this time.. we commin to take it out!

ok, so maybe a lil on the sick side, but still, I LOVE the irony here.

I think it's blown WAY out of proportion. All we need are more headlines to take our minds off the real issues that need to be addressed today. Every platoon, battery, and company should be able to express themselves in battle ANY WAY THEY DAMN WELL PLEASE! They are the bullet catchers after all. Let them have their fun before they look to the sky for one last time and suck in their last breath.


I'm sure every single person here has had some sort of personal joke that would not be looked upon as polite, or decent. Hell, I bet everyone here has been involved, laughed at, or came up with something just as controversial as this... Just no one outside of your lil ring took note or was able to take part.

Originally posted by Qemyst

Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by Qemyst

 

If you use the swastika then go ahead. It is a very old symbol and has it's meaning way before ww2. If you draw it tilted, in a white circle on a red flag then heil to you...

Correct.

It's WAY older.
And yes, the 45 degree tilted swastika in a white circle on a red flag is the Nazi official flag.

However, they didn't always use 45 degree tilted swastikas, and most people still wouldn't care enough to think "Hey, maybe the swastika means something OTHER than Nazism." before acting like a hot-head and getting all emotional about it and wrongly punching me in the face.

The Nazis knew exactly what the swastika meant; they didn't just pick it because it looked cool to them.

It means "creation of life in the lifeless", which is exactly what Hitler brought the post-WWI Germany. The precursor to the Nazi government was the Vrill Society, a heavily occultic group that consisted of Hitler's top staff (Hitler, Himmler, Hess, basically top SS guys aswell since they were top Aryans). Vrill Society conducted various global expeditions to uncover occultic knowledge, and more than likely they got the idea for the swastika from India.

Without a doubt, the SS logo was devised by the Vrill Society also, considering that the runic S shape is directly from the origins of the Germanic people. Entire point of the Third Reich was to re-create the Germanic Empire that was torn apart by other European powers.

In terms of the main story here, adopting yourself as the SS means you adhere to what the SS was all about, which is what I just described. Playing ignorant by making excuses that you're just using the symbol but you don't believe in what it means is just pathetic and really doesn't help your image. You don't pick out and use the same symbols as the SS to identify yourself without knowing what the SS were.

If they had used a different font there wouldnt be any problem. But IMO it looks too much like the Nazi SS logo and being intelligent men they would of known..
Copyright/trade mark issue?

They are silly for what they did. The regs on this stuff is pretty clear and they are going to get smacked silly for it. They weren't allowed to do it. No military unit is allowed to use any symbol that is considered racist. You can argue all day that the symbol itself doesn't have to be racist, but the bottom line is most ordinary people would see that and think of Nazis. It doesn't matter if a minority of people aren't offended. Most people would be frightened silly if some Marine with SS tattooed on him with an SS patch carrying a gun came to speak with them and you probably would be even more frightened if you happened to be Jewish. The DoD made rules about this well over a decade ago. Heck, if you get the iron cross tattooed on you the Army will make you remove it when you enlist and if you get one while you are in they will article 15 you. That's just how it is.

Am I mad at them? No.

reply to post by theRhenn

Here is my take on it.. As someone said... SS/Sniper Scout Doesnt matter what it looks like. NOW... If they were IN ISRAEL I could see that being an issue.

please take a look at my new thread and tell me what you think.

SS is not synonymous with scout sniper.

read the article unbiased and tell me what you think.

My take on it is people are just way too oversensitive. Seriously get over it. It stands for Scout sniper. I can understand if somebody saw it and they went through World War II in Germany but if you weren't even alive then you're just whining.
Scouts snipers have been using the symbol since the 1970s it's not like this is new news or anything. There is no whistle to blow just somebody blowing their own horn. Every group has been persecuted by some other group in history and if we exclude every symbol that groups have used then we need to exclude the Star of David the cross had thousands of others. In conclusion I will say it again just get over it.

reply to post by Grimpachi


It doesn't matter how long they have used the symbol. The DoD set rules on this ages ago and the Marines themselves have stated the use of the flag and symbol was against policy.

Looks likes like a few members of that unit are going to be missing part of their pay for awhile.

Well does this seem interesting? Has anyone thought to look into the background of this writer Mr. Weinstein? Well here is a little about him and he seems he may have an agenda. That agenda is that he is writing a book about the war.What better way to sell books I say.

He worked as a contractor in Iraq. For eight months in 2008 and 2009, Adam assisted U.S. troops as a public affairs specialist. He is currently at work on a book about the war.

www.adamweinsteinwriter.com...

It does seem interesting that this man was a public affairs specialist and assisted US troops so this could not have been the first time he has come across this symbol with the Marines and the scout snipers.I could be wrong. Which is only an observation to me.

I'm Mother Jones' national security reporter, specializing in civil-military relations, budgeting, and nuclear policy. As a Navy vet and ex-Iraq contractor, I'm committed to articulating all things martial—good, bad, and weird—to new audiences

motherjones.com...

In February 2012, U.S. media reported that Marine scout snipers had been using the double Sig rune (ϟϟ, "SS") in its "Armanen" form () to symbolize their function since at least the 1980s.

en.wikipedia.org...

So my question is why all of the sudden was this such a big deal? Oh that's right he is writing a book,and that seems very interesting to me.I guess it is all about the timing.

Maybe one should question his motives before calling the great men and women in the military Nazi's,because they help keep this country safe no matter where they are doing it from.

ok fine, ss stand for scout sniper, but why could they not use another font? iĺl tell you why. they like it looking like the original nazi symbol. why not use the superman "s" doubled up.

reply to post by Qemyst

As a Former Marine 03, the symbolism is for scout sniper, nothing more. The reason for using that style is that a Sniper strikes his target in an instant, in a flash. Like a ,,, "bolt of lightning" if you will. It was there, it is gone. All this PC'ness is getting really out of hand. Is EVERYBODY constantly "offended" ? If the German's killed 6 million Jews and 20 Million Russians, where is all the outrage for the Russians? I guess if they had used an image of their scopes crosshairs SOMEBODY would have made a case for using a swastika in a circle

Remember we are talking about 18 to 20-year-olds usually defined as simple as reason things are done. Face it, it looks cool. It has the same letters do we really need to look any further into this? The military didn't used to be so PC or have sensitivity training. I hope it doesn't have sensitivity training.. As someone pointed out the guy is writing a book so there's your motive. People are trying to make something out of nothing. And for those who want to make these guys seem dumb you really need to look into the training a scout sniper goes through I have nothing but the utmost respect for them and you should too.

The thing that pisses me off more than anything is how people mostly liberals are trying to make such a big deal out of a photo because they can't get over something that happened over 60 years ago. The real story is these guys put their life on the line in some of the harshest conditions so that those of us back home don't have to. People get a grip.

Really?

Surely there are other ways to represent "scout sniper"?

WW2 really wasn't that long ago.

reply to post by discolo


Yes, and British army tank crews refer to their vehicles as panzers. Does this make them nazis or something? No, it makes them soldiers. People who do not understand the mind of the average soldier would do better than to apply their own oh-so-comfortable and hard won (and hard won by whom?) liberal attitudes to something that is outside their sphere of experience.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"

Now, go ahead and cry "not in my name", but ask yourself, if the excrement were to hit the air conditioning, would you not be glad of these people?

Discolo, I'm not picking on you, yours just happened to be the post I quoted to reflect some of the attitudes I see here, so no hard feelings please. Seriously folks, I am not saying that the military is above reproach or these guys are saints. Indeed, atrocities of many kinds are committed by military men as history shows us. This, however, is hardly an atrocity. If it offends your delicate sensibilities, feel free to look the other way whilst counting your blessings that you do not have to share the same dehumanising experiences that have faced infantrymen for centuries.

Originally posted by skycowboy
reply to post by Qemyst

 

As a Former Marine 03, the symbolism is for scout sniper, nothing more. The reason for using that style is that a Sniper strikes his target in an instant, in a flash. Like a ,,, "bolt of lightning" if you will. It was there, it is gone. All this PC'ness is getting really out of hand. Is EVERYBODY constantly "offended" ? If the German's killed 6 million Jews and 20 Million Russians, where is all the outrage for the Russians? I guess if they had used an image of their scopes crosshairs SOMEBODY would have made a case for using a swastika in a circle

Your "scope" example makes no sense whatsoever. They weren't using a scope in their flag, it was SS insignia- the same insignia worn by SS on their lapel. And they aren't lightning bolts either, they are runic S's from the furthark.

If you marines don't like all of the "politically correct" negativity about your symbolism, then why use nazi symbolism?

roguedesigner-
Yes, and British army tank crews refer to their vehicles as panzers.

"Panzer" translates to "tank" in German. What is wrong about that?

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


"Panzer" translates to "tank" in German. What is wrong about that?

(irony)
Oh. I never knew that.
(/irony)