Exclusive: Marines Nazi-Flag Whistleblower Comes Forward

Exclusive: Marines Nazi-Flag Whistleblower Comes Forward

m.motherjones.com

An Iraq vet, now a Holocaust expert, explains how and why he exposed Marines' use of an "SS" flag.

Mother Jones: How were you made aware of the photos?

Waitman Beorn: A colleague of mine received it from a friend associated with the Marines. It was forwarded to me via email with a bit of background.

MJ: What were your thoughts on them, both as an academic specialist in Holocaust studies and as a former scout platoon leader?

WB: I was disappointed and saddened. Our military's image has been sullied of late and it was really disturbing for me to see that certain members were choo

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Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
US Marines posed with Nazi symbol in Afghanistan

Just found this.

Whisteblower on the nazi-ss scandal steps forward.

He explains what he thinks of the matter, how he got the photos and why he decided to step forward.

Imho it all was in very bad taste and i'm glad he stepped forward.

He makes a lot of sense in my book.

What ya think?

m.motherjones.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by kn0wh0w


In my honest experience EVERY MARINE SCOUT SNIPER gets an SS on their right shoulder for SCOUT SNIPER. Branded; not a tattoo; but forever. I know many. Do not get misconstrued by ideoligical beliefs, these guys do it for brotherhood. Some of them are Jews. SS for scout sniper, they shouldn't be ashamed of their brandings or markings.

29INFDIV

For all Marines.

reply to post by kn0wh0w


As I had been posting in another thread regarding this pic, here are my thoughts.

It's obvious that most people associate the SS symbol with Nazism.

The guys are a scout sniper unit, so the letters "SS" fit.
That same symbol has been used many times before with the scout snipers, as shown in a pic that another user posted on the other forum.




In my opinion, the simplest explanation for the picture with the Marines kneeling by the flag is that they were using it to represent their Scout Sniper unit, as many others have, and it's truly as simple as that.

Of course, since the "shape" of the SS lightning bolts is associated with Nazism, people immediately say it's a Nazi symbol, when in fact it is just a shape that people ASSIGN symbolism to (that's what a symbol is). Anyone should be free to assign their own symbolism to it, as the Scout Snipers have done. Instead of symbolizing the Schutzstaffel, it is used here to symbolize Scout Sniper. Just like instead of the Swastika symbolizing Nazism, it is actually used to symbolize MANY other things in many cultures, but the MAJORITY of people will recognize it as Nazi symbolism, which it isn't. It's just a shape. Just like the SS is.

If someone wants to associate the Nazi stigma to it, and claim it is a Nazi symbol, then it is of their own doing.
If someone wants to say the shape stands for Scout Sniper, then, that is what it stands for to them.

If the Scout Sniper team KNEW the SS symbol was also used to symbolize Nazism in the past, then they have guts, but shouldn't catch any career ending trouble for it. Maybe a simple "Look, guys... We know you're using it to symbolize Scout Sniper... we get it.. And it stinks that we have to ask you not to use it any more, because regardless of how you feel, a majority of people are going to associate it with Nazism, even though its clearly meant to be associated with Scout Sniper."

Just my thoughts.

Cheers

reply to post by kn0wh0w


Deplorable that you think this guy is a whistle blower, it has been a staple of Scout Snipers since NAM. Shame you didn't hear that from Carlos Hathcock in his book...... Knowing one that is a Marine Officer (Enlisted Scout Sniper beforehand, SS branded on the shoulder) Those in the picture all have one, not cause they are nazi's, cause they are a brotherhood.

29INFDIV

This is just be blown out of proportion, I give the actions of sevicemen a hard time if there is a reason, but this is not that.

reply to post by kn0wh0w


You need to do research on people that you quote or reference. Dr. Waitman Beorn:

Dr. Beorn’s historical interests are centered in modern European history, specifically the history of the Nazi period and the Holocaust. His manuscript is an investigation of the participation of the German Army in the mass killings of Jews in the Soviet Union. NOT on Marine Scout Snipers, thank you!

29INFDIV
4thLAR 4thMARDIV
1st 175th INF 29th INF DIV

99-07 Do your own history on the sandbox.......... be there or know nothing.

reply to post by 29INFDIV


What's deplorable is that you cannot see the complete stupidity and offense in using an SS flag as some sort of identifying symbol. You're #ting on millions of europeans that gave their lives in the war at the hands of the SS by giving glory to it. That should have never started nor should it continue. They can draw the SS differently - whatever. Just not the same.

and if they INSIST it has to be the same??? then what? what does that say?

The World is trying Very Very Hard to turn Anti-Zionism into Anti-Semite. Then this gets caught up in the cross hairs. Live and let live. So tired of Political Correctness!!

Originally posted by tagasbob
reply to post by 29INFDIV

 

What's deplorable is that you cannot see the complete stupidity and offense in using an SS flag as some sort of identifying symbol. You're #ting on millions of europeans that gave their lives in the war at the hands of the SS by giving glory to it. That should have never started nor should it continue. They can draw the SS differently - whatever. Just not the same.

and if they INSIST it has to be the same??? then what? what does that say?

edit on 11-2-2012 by tagasbob because: (no reason given)

It says that its time to move on and stop clinging to old daemons. SS no longer stands for what it used to. And until people are able to just STOP with all the PC bullsh#$ and move on, this world will never move forward.

As it has already been said, SS to them means SCOUT SNIPER. Nothing more. They are not trying to be Nazis. They are not trying to "offend the millions of Europeans who died".

If your offended by it, then move on. You don't have to look at their flag. Hell a snipers roll is to not be scene. So stop looking if you don't like it.

Originally posted by tagasbob
reply to post by 29INFDIV

 

What's deplorable is that you cannot see the complete stupidity and offense in using an SS flag as some sort of identifying symbol. You're #ting on millions of europeans that gave their lives in the war at the hands of the SS by giving glory to it. That should have never started nor should it continue. They can draw the SS differently - whatever. Just not the same.

and if they INSIST it has to be the same??? then what? what does that say?

edit on 11-2-2012 by tagasbob because: (no reason given)

That is a Scout Sniper flag, not a Schutzstaffel flag. You are the one saying it's a Nazi Schutzstaffel double-sig flag. That Scout Sniper unit there are probably saying its a Scout Sniper flag, nothing more. That's the great thing about symbolism. One shape can be used by whoever wants to use it and they can say it stands for something completely different. Like the Swastika, for instance. The Nazi's chose to use that shape as one of their symbols.
The Hindu use it to symbolize other things. It's used in Buddhism to symbolize even OTHER things.
Why, heres an image of a Native American basketball team using it on their jerseys.




They're not Nazi's.

All i'm saying is that a shape is a shape is a shape. If one person wants to use it as their Scout Sniper flag symbol, then that's fine. If a massive army of Nazi's want to use it as one of their symbols, then so be it.

Shapes can't talk. They don't say "Hey, I'm ONLY to be used by the Nazi's! You can't use me for something else!" It's PEOPLE who give symbolism and meaning to these shapes, not the shapes themselves.

Cheers

Originally posted by tagasbob
reply to post by 29INFDIV

 

What's deplorable is that you cannot see the complete stupidity and offense in using an SS flag as some sort of identifying symbol. You're #ting on millions of europeans that gave their lives in the war at the hands of the SS by giving glory to it. That should have never started nor should it continue. They can draw the SS differently - whatever. Just not the same.

and if they INSIST it has to be the same??? then what? what does that say?

edit on 11-2-2012 by tagasbob because: (no reason given)

Here's the thing though. If it is true that they've been using this since, at least, Vietnam- then you can hardly blame the current marines for using it. They are truly not to blame. Blame the original guys who started it, but I believe these guys are completely innocent and naive regarding this. It would be a nice gesture to change the font, now that everyone is sufficiently enlightened and a massive over-reaction has occurred as a result, but this has gone unremarked upon for decades.

Here's a tangent: do you think it's impossible that nazi ideology could still exist? Why would you even choose to associate yourself with a symbol like this if you were on the allied side of things? The fact that this was adopted in Vietnam is even more cowardly as the war was only a few decades prior.

Why do you people act as if signing up to the military is an auto-pass for being the best person ever??? Ever think that symbols like this might exist to attract a certain type of person? symbols are not meaningless; especially in the military.

Finally, why woudn't the military spokeswoman say any of this stuff? Why did she go up and say "these pictures couldn't have been done with awareness of what the flag meant because that's not what the navy is all about"? Why not tell the truth - if that's what it is? The only thing I can ascertain is that the very existence of the real Scout Sniper flag is a complete embarrassment. I'm all for free will, but at some point there needs to be respect as well.

Finally, does a bunch of yahoos using nazi paraphenalia back in Vietnam make it okay just because that's what happened? What about the millions of those that died? Why is there no respect for the sacrifice of those people?

I said this in the other thread and it bears repeating: There's something I've learned over the years. The knowledge I consider common isn't. World War II ended 67 years ago. Most people are not only not fans of learning history, they rarely get any in-depth education about this war in their compulsory schooling beyond 'Hitler was bad and killed a lot of Jewish people in something called the Holocaust'. I can fully believe these guys were that naive.

reply to post by tagasbob

wow what a tangent!! maybe you should do some research into NAZI like where does the ZI in the acronym come from.

While the insignia has been unofficially used by Scout Snipers in the past, the Marine Corps said it is absolutely prohibited, the statement from Upton said.

"Certainly, the use of the "SS runes" is not acceptable and Scout Snipers have been addressed concerning this issue," the statement said. "'SS runes are prohibited from use as a symbol or any other use."

security.blogs.cnn.com...

From 2007 - The Marine Corps is getting more strict about tatoos according to Marine administrative message 198/07.:

d. Tattoos or brands that are prejudicial to good order, discipline and morale, or are of a nature to bring discredit upon the Marine Corps. These may include, but are not limited to, any tattoo that is sexist, racist, vulgar, anti-american, anti-social, gang related, or extremest group or organization related.

usmilitary.about.com...

The Marines knew exactly what they were doing and that SS was a prohibited symbol.

reply to post by LeSigh


I bet a few of them were and a few of them weren't.

As far as the whole 67 years back stuff, I feel that just means that the nazis got there first. Scout Snipers have to suck it up; they're further back in line. The Nazis screwed it up for them; I feel that's a fair assessment. If the word nazi was all but forgotten at this point maybe I would feel differently, but Nazism is still quite alive and well in this world (scary thought). While WW2 was 67 years ago, the term "nazi" still remains salient to this day. For that reason, respects should be shown or else everyone will just misunderstand (like exactly what is happening).

Talk about first world problems!!! "they wont let us use our nazi flag! fml!"

Originally posted by 29INFDIV
reply to post by kn0wh0w

 

In my honest experience EVERY MARINE SCOUT SNIPER gets an SS on their right shoulder for SCOUT SNIPER. Branded; not a tattoo; but forever. I know many. Do not get misconstrued by ideoligical beliefs, these guys do it for brotherhood. Some of them are Jews. SS for scout sniper, they shouldn't be ashamed of their brandings or markings.

29INFDIV

For all Marines.

Every US marine scount sniper gets the Nazi runic SS as their symbol? And some of them are Jews adopting SS insignia? I don't know what is more disturbing here, the serious lack of basic military history or the obvious use of Nazi symbolism to represent US marine units.

Originally posted by DerekJR321

Originally posted by tagasbob
reply to post by 29INFDIV

 

What's deplorable is that you cannot see the complete stupidity and offense in using an SS flag as some sort of identifying symbol. You're #ting on millions of europeans that gave their lives in the war at the hands of the SS by giving glory to it. That should have never started nor should it continue. They can draw the SS differently - whatever. Just not the same.

and if they INSIST it has to be the same??? then what? what does that say?

edit on 11-2-2012 by tagasbob because: (no reason given)

It says that its time to move on and stop clinging to old daemons. SS no longer stands for what it used to. And until people are able to just STOP with all the PC bullsh#$ and move on, this world will never move forward.

As it has already been said, SS to them means SCOUT SNIPER. Nothing more. They are not trying to be Nazis. They are not trying to "offend the millions of Europeans who died".

If your offended by it, then move on. You don't have to look at their flag. Hell a snipers roll is to not be scene. So stop looking if you don't like it.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "SCOUT SNIPER". THIS HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH USING NAZI SS SYMBOLISM TO REPRESENT "SCOUT SNIPER" .

And they are not doing this on purpose? What a load- one would have to be retarded to not know what the runic SS insignia represents, especially a military unit. They know what it means and they adopted it to live up to the presteige of the SS. While you may not understand it, it certainly is offensive to other people and other cultures.

What would you be saying if Al Qaeda or Iran was running around with SS flags?

EDIT-

I must be honest here. My main contention is not so much with the fact that they have adopted Nazi symbols, but more with the fact that they have adopted symbols from another nation to represent themselves. As if all of the neo-Rome symbolism wasn't evident enough, now Americans use Nazi symbolism to identify with. Try something original, FFS.

reply to post by 29INFDIV


Deplorable that you still try to defend something like this even when

“Racist and anti-Semitic symbols have absolutely no place alongside the men and women of America’s armed forces,” Little said in a statement. Then the Marine Corps Commandant, Gen. James Amos, weighed in, apologizing to “all offended by this regrettable incident.” “I want to be clear that the Marine Corps unequivocally does not condone the use of any such symbols to represent our units or Marines,” Amos said.

I didnt call the guy a whistleblower, the article did.
Forum rules also state i need to copy the exact headline of the article.