The Devil's Chord: The conspiracy to open the portal of consciousness and mystery of the octave

You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein

This is going nowhere fast. I bid you ado.

This is going to take me several days to get through, given my current schedule, but I wanted to S+F and mark my place so that this thread remains easy for me to find, going forward. As a songwriter and lyricist, I find the subject irresistible and fascinating. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by ThoughtForms
reply to post by poetpiet

 

the next time you meet a god won't you want to be able to understand more than just a symbolic poetic version of what that god is trying to tell you?

just thinking out loud... so to speak...

Peace,
-TF

edit on 17-2-2012 by ThoughtForms because: (no reason given)

No one can tell someone else what God's voice sounds like. They literally need to hear it themselves. Imagine there is a sound you can't hear and the reason you can't hear it is because someone is making a bad reproduction of the sound right into your ear without letting up. Telling you "It sounds like this!". Imagine the person making the bad reproduction of the sound is yourself. Or your ego.. telling you what God is saying

thats not what I meant at all.

I mean that when you are out in the middle of an open field with 40 other people dancing to trance music at 3am if the music is constructed one way the chances of you being able to have a divine experience can be increased and if its constructed another way it kills any chance of a spiritual experience you may have been able to have.

I'm not saying I can make music that is the voice of god *facepalm* I'm saying music can take you to the place you need to be in mentally, spiritually and physically to have such a meeting. which isn't even just mine alone, thousands of people have experienced this. its a common thing.

-TF

Originally posted by UncleV
There is much more to go into but not here, this thread is already 25 pages and no one knows what it is about yet!! LOL.

Listen to your heart...certainly valuable, no doubt about it. But that is rhythm, not tone, not frequency nor interval. Yes, we know most all cultures utilize the I-IV-V intervals, no argument there.

Here's what I'm thinking, correct me if I'm wrong. The OP has a vocabulary in all manner of unique things except music and frequencies.

Actually I started classical piano lessons at the age of 5 at McPhail School for the Arts in Minneapolis and then my last two years of high school I took private music ear training and orchestration from a former University of Minnesota music Professor. So then I performed a solo piano classical concert as a teenager -- performing Brahms, Mozart, Bach, John Cage and other pieces by memory.

When I entered college I focused on music composition but since I had done private training already I tested into the third level for music theory and then I composed a fugue. Then I took music composition at Smith College and private piano performance at Smith College. Then I transferred to UW-Madison and I was accepted into the music composition department.

The UW-Madison music composition department bragged that their graduates went on to the Ivy League schools where the professors had studied and the focus was on computer music generated formally using mathematics. There was an option to choose your own music composition focus so I focused on third world music. I disagreed with the music composition professors and then one of them claimed my orchestration transcription of a Schoenberg piano sonata to string quartet was communist! Then he said to redo my previous orchestration pieces even though I had already been graded on them and I had received As or Bs. So I then dropped out of the music composition program since it was obvious the professors were not being fair for whatever reason and it wasn't worth arguing about it.

By this time in high school I had also sang in choirs -- church and school -- the school was professional and toured the U.S. and recorded a c.d. I also played in a jazz band, a roots reggae band, a hardcore punk-country band and a blues band. So I had played some bars and cafes -- but I was still only 18.

So then I continued playing free jazz at piano but by then I was continuing to explore nonwestern music scales and modes and tuning and I could no longer play Western tuning while considering it good music.

I still consider Western tuning music and I actually prefer classical and good jazz but mainly syncopated rhythm is crucial. Western tuning is considered the "materialist" tuning in Indian classical music -- so the logarithmic tuning -- or its closest parallel in Indian tuning - is not unknown but just not the only one used nor considered the best tuning.

As for music tuning -- the "programmed" philosophy of music to evoke the emotions -- this has been proven to be universal to humans. In other words what Westerners consider "sad" music or "happy" music is accepted in all human cultures.

But music has continued to rely on the basic tunings from natural consonance simple ratios. Dr. Sandy Trehub has even documented that babies naturally like consonant music while Dr. Kathleen Wermke found infants cry out in simple music ratios regularly and it's not just from exposure to music but due to auditory design. Dr. Thomas Fritz tested Western consonant tuning on the Mafa tribe in northern Cameroon – a tribe completely unexposed to Western music. The tribe correctly identified the emotions for happy, sad, and scary music. Dr. Fritz states: “The emotional expression of the music is inherent in the music itself. And it is not solely decodable through cultural imprinting.”21

21 Elena Mannes, producer, The Music Instinct: Science and Song, PBS Documentary, June 2009.

Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by UncleV

 

"Listen to your heart...certainly valuable, no doubt about it. But that is rhythm, not tone, not frequency nor interval"

The heart makes sounds.. unless you are a vampire or zombie.

your ignorance is baffling. Sound can be rhythmic without containing a 'tone' per se, earthquakes aren't melodies is what he's getting at. no ones denying the heart makes sound, that would be stupid.

There is no math proof forthcoming. There can't be. That's the point.

then your point is null and void of any meaning. you don't understand what you're even arguing about.

BUT that doesn't mean what he is saying is not true. What he is saying is that to experience the proof you need to do what any good scientist would do and TEST the hypothesis. What's the experiment? LISTENING. If you do not run the experiment you can NEVER experience the proof. And this particular experiment's hypothesis is Truth itself.

wtf are you on. that makes no sense at all.

there are no experiments being put forward to test, and we ARE listening dammit otherwise we would not be asking questions, something you flat out refuse to do.

The reason we cannot make sense of his drivel and you are right up in the heart of it is exactly because we are asking questions while you blindly stomp forward in a moronic haze.

How can you sit there and decide that the best course of action at this late point in the thread is to bash the only people asking questions and continuing to support fallacies to your own detriment.

There is no logic that can be applied in which your actions are even worth YOUR time unless the whole point of your being here is to tell people how their failings are all because they aren't as spiritually or emotionally advanced as you.

Heres a tip get your head out of your backside.

And don't expect any more out of me because I have better things to do then make myself appear foolish arguing with someone like you.

-TF

Originally posted by poetpiet
regarding use and abuse of logic/pattern when it comes to definitions,
perfect pitches, frequencies, peeps at see through windows, deaf glimpses
and blind audations of breaking points, slivers and whipcrack nodes in
supracensual spectra stretching into vanishing points that have us
surrounded as well as embedded at the same time.

watertight logics as as nasty as all other such powertools and weapons.
These are more often than not pitted against and detracting from as well as preventing
not looser but loosening logics (lessening watertightness of mineral
aggregation to metabolize them and thus feed our soils and trees).

Long convoluted pabulum was once looked on favorably as alternative to and/or
prevention of war ... but it quite as often postpones, even prevents real peace.

peace.

look "guy" here's the thing before I shoot on out of here, No one denies what you are saying. And us asking for clarifications in the language that we are talking and he is TRYING to talk in does niether sit "for" or "against" what you are getting all poetically hot and bothered about.

what we are denying is that what you are stating as the great preventer of "outside the box" progress IS NOT FREAKING HAPPENING HERE. Honestly you're barking up the wrong tree man. Your cause is noble but your target is miscalculated. Aim you beacon of truth where it is needed. choose your battles. Seriously. You think this drew guy has the answers? maybe you need target practice... logic is a terrible weapon? then insanity must be the path to peace.

-TF

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
Listening to the heart beat for example - is really the easiest thing I'm talking about.

I thought tuning was about pitch. What about pitch?

Mary -- earlier in the thread someone asked me about the Tritone Paradox Effect or Shephards Tone Effect -- I didn't give a link but just responded with a comment that some people might not have understood if they didn't know what the question was about.

The Tritone Paradox is the ambiguity of pitch octave perception due to the Tritone and the "absolute pitch" it is compared with. So if the "absolute pitch" and the tritone is changed then some people hear the pitch as half an octave and others hear it as half an octave lower and the perception is ambiguous -- it depends on what the "absolute pitch" is and then this will change a person's ability to perceive the correct octave or not.

The Tritone Effect here

So what this thread is about is the Tritone as the gateway or portal to real consciousness.

The Tritone is the extreme limit of the Western logarithmic tuning system -- it is the most dissonant and so it called the "Devil's Interval" by the medieval church -- and banned.

My position is that the Tritone reveals a deeper secret -- the Tritone reveals the extreme limit of Western tuning but also is a portal to the secret of complementary opposites.

So the exact ambiguity of pitch tuning with the tritone again reveals this structural limitation of the Hertz tuning system in general.

We can have different scales and modes and tuning system but the most tuning is done with this inherent "chaotic" or inherently unpredictable limit within the linear deterministic model of measuring. It's not about setting up an experiment that has a controlled result and can be analyzed with the left-brain.

The "wave" equation is the structural guiding force to rational analysis -- it's more than just music. Frequency, amplitude and phase are the guiding principles of science but there is a problem here -- it reveals that science is secretly a religion of mass sacrifice.

UC-Berkeley quantum chaos math professor Ralph Abraham: “In fact, the known physical fields – electric, magnetic, gravitational, nuclear and so on – are all modeled, in mathematical physics, by the same abstract field, known to mathematics as the d’Alembertian wave equation. This is a bona-fide card-carrying member of the Cosmic Mind, and is just as fundamental to the creation of the cosmos as are the five Platonic Solids.”277 Abraham emphasizes that the early pivotal chaotic “bifurcation point” was when Kepler transferred Pythagorean harmonics of the Soul into magnitude as Force. Abraham now argues for a postmodern spiritualized science calling chaos “sacred math” to be used “until cosmic integrity prevails.”278

277 Ralph Abraham, “The New Sacred Math,” World Futures, 62: 6-16, 2006. Jean D’Alembert emphasized music theory as the secret model for reality. Christensen, Thomas. “Music Theory as Scientific Propaganda: The Case of D'Alembert's Élémens[sic] De Musique.” Journal of the History of Ideas, Vol. 50, No. 3 (Jul.–Sep., 1989): 409-427.

278 Ralph Abraham, “The Broken Chain, The bifurcation from soul to force, Kepler, 1605 AD,” 2005, revised 2010.

So real music (the 1-4-5 nonwestern music) is not about a "science" of music whereas science is secretly modeled by Western music. That is the paradox of the Devil's Interval -- science is actually dissonant. The tritone is at the heart of logarithmic-based science -- the "music logarithmic spiral."

One prominent example of how music models science is the implementation of “frequency hopping.” Music healer Dr. Alice Cash documents how the current reliance on “spread spectrum” devices originated out of a music analysis: Take “frequency hopping,” in which coded signals are sent along a constantly changing set of frequencies so that the signals can be neither intercepted nor blocked. In 1942, the composer George Antheil and the actress Hedy Lamar suggested using the melody of a song as a way of sending signals in Morse code. The person receiving the message would already know what song was being used and constantly retune his receiver to the frequency of the next note in the song to hear the Morse-code version of the next letter in the message. Someone who didn't know which song was being used would have no idea what frequency to
listen to. The concept has spawned hundreds of patents and is the basis of many of
the secure communications systems now used by the U.S. military.339

339 Dr. Alice Cash, “Using Music for Brain Food,” Healing Music Enterprises. Not only are these “peer to peer” music-based spread spectrum systems becoming the norm for broadband communications but they are also becoming “self-organizing” as per the Actual Matrix Plan. The realm of research on this subject is well-covered in academia, demonstrated by the array of conferences in the subject area, as of 2008: **13th International Conference on Fuzzy Theory and Technology (FTT), **11th International Conference on Computer Science and Informatics (CSI), **9th International Conference on Computer Vision, Pattern Recognition and Image Processing (CVPR), **Special Session on Computational Intelligence in Economics and Finance (CIEF), **6th International Conference on Photonics, Networking and Computing (PNC), **8th Atlantic Symposium on Computational Biology and Genome Informatics (CBGI), **8th International Conference on Computational Intelligence and Natural Computing (CIN) and for 2011 we have: The 10th IEEE/ACIS International Conference on Computer and Information Science brings together scientists, engineers, computer users, and students to exchange and share their experiences, new ideas, and research results about all aspects (theory, applications and tools) of computer and information science, and discuss the practical challenges encountered and the solutions adopted.

If I dislocated a few joints I might get into that full lotus position. I'm not afraid of dying but I don't particularily like hurting. What eye are they trying to open, one between you're legs?

Originally posted by rickymouse
If I dislocated a few joints I might get into that full lotus position. I'm not afraid of dying but I don't particularily like hurting. What eye are they trying to open, one between you're legs?

haha. Again if you really want to know the secret of the nonwestern 12 note scale as alchemy then study this book

Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immorality == read in full free here

So this "small universe" practice only requires sitting on a chair with the pressure on the perineum between the anus and the reproductive organs -- the direct center of the bottom of the "trunk" of the body.

The perineum actually takes in the electrochemical energy around us as "yin chi" energy and then it connects with the "yang chi" which is from the blood of the heart. When the two combine then it creates "prenatal chi" which is the electromagnetic healing force. As the prenatal chi builds up then it creates "shen" laser holographic spirit energy and then you feel the center of the brain open up as the third eye pineal gland energy.

This enables connection with the spirit realm so that dead spirits can be seen as light forms in the air -- shaped like humans -- so the energy masters do see these spirits and heal them as well. The spirits of the dead are kept attached to the Earth from the emotional electrochemical blockages which are linked to the sounds of each organ of the body.



So the lungs is sadness, the kidney is fear, the liver is anger, the pancreas is worry, the heart is love/hate.

So then the kidneys are transformed to will power and the lungs to courage and the liver to wisdom and the heart to love and the pancreas to good intention.

Also there is a healing color for each organ -- so the liver is green, the kidney is black, the lungs are white, the pancreas is yellow, the heart is red.

You don't want to force the full lotus -- that is considered an "advanced" practice in the West but actually it is the standard meditation practice and the focus is to open up the back of the lower back -- the "small" of the back which needs to be stretched out so that the life force energy rises up the spine.

So the music healing is the parasympathetic relaxation healing -- it triggers the internal bliss through the vagus nerve connection to the right side of the brain as the serotonin and dopamine increase in the brain and the serotonin is stored in the lower body. Ultrasound ionizes the chemicals so they can bypass the blood brain barrier.

So then listening to the highest pitch we hear internally -- when we listen in silence and hear this highest pitch -- if we focus on listening to that pitch it resonates into ultrasound internally. Also the pressure on the bones and collagen then resonates into ultrasound to create a piezoelectric energy.

So there is the extreme of sound as ELF waves of the heart for the alpha theta delta deep brain relaxation and also the ultrasound at the upper extreme of sound -- and the beats of the ultrasound create subharmonics into the ELF waves and there is a nonlinear feedback.

The internal emotional energy is experienced as a tingling heat in the organs -- it's called "Jing" energy but is the prioprioception perception of the inner ear -- so the ringing sound of high pitch is considered the activation of the jing energy which is the kidney will power energy -- the life force energy.



So then as the electromagnetic energy increases there is a natural flexibility to the body - and the hips become flexible -- they spread out more - and that is what enables the full lotus tetrahedron position.

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong

Originally posted by UncleV
There is much more to go into but not here, this thread is already 25 pages and no one knows what it is about yet!! LOL.

Listen to your heart...certainly valuable, no doubt about it. But that is rhythm, not tone, not frequency nor interval. Yes, we know most all cultures utilize the I-IV-V intervals, no argument there.

Here's what I'm thinking, correct me if I'm wrong. The OP has a vocabulary in all manner of unique things except music and frequencies.

Actually I started classical piano lessons at the age of 5 at McPhail School for the Arts in Minneapolis and then my last two years of high school I took private music ear training and orchestration from a former University of Minnesota music Professor. So then I performed a solo piano classical concert as a teenager -- performing Brahms, Mozart, Bach, John Cage and other pieces by memory.

When I entered college I focused on music composition but since I had done private training already I tested into the third level for music theory and then I composed a fugue. Then I took music composition at Smith College and private piano performance at Smith College. Then I transferred to UW-Madison and I was accepted into the music composition department.

The UW-Madison music composition department bragged that their graduates went on to the Ivy League schools where the professors had studied and the focus was on computer music generated formally using mathematics. There was an option to choose your own music composition focus so I focused on third world music. I disagreed with the music composition professors and then one of them claimed my orchestration transcription of a Schoenberg piano sonata to string quartet was communist! Then he said to redo my previous orchestration pieces even though I had already been graded on them and I had received As or Bs. So I then dropped out of the music composition program since it was obvious the professors were not being fair for whatever reason and it wasn't worth arguing about it.

By this time in high school I had also sang in choirs -- church and school -- the school was professional and toured the U.S. and recorded a c.d. I also played in a jazz band, a roots reggae band, a hardcore punk-country band and a blues band. So I had played some bars and cafes -- but I was still only 18.

So then I continued playing free jazz at piano but by then I was continuing to explore nonwestern music scales and modes and tuning and I could no longer play Western tuning while considering it good music.

I still consider Western tuning music and I actually prefer classical and good jazz but mainly syncopated rhythm is crucial. Western tuning is considered the "materialist" tuning in Indian classical music -- so the logarithmic tuning -- or its closest parallel in Indian tuning - is not unknown but just not the only one used nor considered the best tuning.

As for music tuning -- the "programmed" philosophy of music to evoke the emotions -- this has been proven to be universal to humans. In other words what Westerners consider "sad" music or "happy" music is accepted in all human cultures.

But music has continued to rely on the basic tunings from natural consonance simple ratios. Dr. Sandy Trehub has even documented that babies naturally like consonant music while Dr. Kathleen Wermke found infants cry out in simple music ratios regularly and it's not just from exposure to music but due to auditory design. Dr. Thomas Fritz tested Western consonant tuning on the Mafa tribe in northern Cameroon – a tribe completely unexposed to Western music. The tribe correctly identified the emotions for happy, sad, and scary music. Dr. Fritz states: “The emotional expression of the music is inherent in the music itself. And it is not solely decodable through cultural imprinting.”21

21 Elena Mannes, producer, The Music Instinct: Science and Song, PBS Documentary, June 2009.

why is it you can explain something like this in clear and easy to understand laymans terms using correct grammar and punctuation but cannot do the same when we question parts of your theory you don't understand. Its posts like this one you've made here which make me disappointed that your are so difficult to talk to because it suggests you may actually be on to something. Perhaps you have advanced your knowledge in these fields so much that I cannot understand what you're saying half the time due to the lingo and concepts... However you should really learn how to "dejargon" your theories if you ever want another human to understand them. Assuming that is what you want.

Peace,
-TF

ETA: just a parting thought. I am most definitely leaving......now.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
reply to post by UncleV

 

Is there a method of tuning instruments using only your listening skills - no gadgets or tools?

Originally posted by elmoastro


In this thread, the OP has put it into perspective from a sociological point of view, filtered through the language of music and tied to the energy experiences of meditation and qigong.

Quiet the mind, open up to reality--even if it flies in the face of your belief (read dogma), discover the universe.

edit on 17-2-2012 by elmoastro because: (no reason given)

Again Yang is 2:3 and Yin is 3:4. The foundation of the practice is the "small universe" or microcosmic orbit.

It is the 12 notes of the music scale but not as the logarithmic tuning -- instead as the yin/yang "infinite spiral of fifths."