Theory, the 24 Elders

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jhill76

 

Because it's a song. It should be obvious the 24 elders are redeemed humanity. With their crowns and prayer vials they are symbolic of kings and priests.

You are equating the order of which things run down here to be the same as they are above.

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jhill76

 

Because it's a song. It should be obvious the 24 elders are redeemed humanity. With their crowns and prayer vials they are symbolic of kings and priests.

You are equating the order of which things run down here to be the same as they are above.

Okay, then I guess everyone has thrones in heaven, maybe there's a throne boutique? The 24 elders and candlestick references is the church, the bride of Christ. She's wearing "white raiment", meaning justified, sins forgiven, and singing the Song of the Redeemed. They fall down and throw their crowns at Christ's feet. That's His Bride!! lol

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

Hey,

Good news! We are free and have the promise of Jesus return and eternal life with our Father through Jesus.

Yes, the Gospel of our salvation, and redemption.

Redemption already happened a long time ago and when we find out about it for sure is after we die and at some point meet our judgment day. Our salvation is not based on anyone physically traversing some length of space in either direction and it is all about what we do in this life we have right now.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

Words like "think" and "most likely" don't lend themselves to surety.

It means I am being honest and real and I am insulted by your comment and have a nice day.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Hey,

Good news! We are free and have the promise of Jesus return and eternal life with our Father through Jesus.

Yes, the Gospel of our salvation, and redemption.

Redemption already happened a long time ago and when we find out about it for sure is after we die and at some point meet our judgment day. Our salvation is not based on anyone physically traversing some length of space in either direction and it is all about what we do in this life we have right now.

Wow, you said nothing about Jesus. What about JESUS?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Hey,

Good news! We are free and have the promise of Jesus return and eternal life with our Father through Jesus.

Yes, the Gospel of our salvation, and redemption.

Redemption already happened a long time ago and when we find out about it for sure is after we die and at some point meet our judgment day. Our salvation is not based on anyone physically traversing some length of space in either direction and it is all about what we do in this life we have right now.

There is no other name by which we are saved, only Jesus. If you believe you're going to find out about redemption at the judgment throne but refuse to search until then, the only thing you're going to find is judgment. Our salvation is dependent on God and how He has offered it, not upon how we want it to be and certainly redemption doesn't come because of our works. All have sinned and come short of God's glory. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. For by grace we are saved through faith, and that not of ourselves lest any man should boast.

You should really reconsider your philosophical stance on salvation and redemption if you rely on anything or anyone but God and His love. And if you don't believe in God then arguing such a point would be mute for you. Nevertheless, God created us and not we Him. Find Him where He made Himself known to us.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Words like "think" and "most likely" don't lend themselves to surety.

It means I am being honest and real and I am insulted by your comment and have a nice day.

Using indecisive terminology in assertions of concreteness may be you being honest but honestly, you'd still be misunderstood. What kind of person would that make me if I was happy with you being in such a way? Sometimes love hurts, especially when it exposes cracks in our foundations but you have to know inside yourself that if what you believe can't be stood upon always and in all situations then you need to rebuild your house and your identity upon something more solid.

I didn't mean to insult you but there is always a little heat and friction when we truly start sharpening one another.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Redemption already happened a long time ago and when we find out about it for sure is after we die and at some point meet our judgment day. Our salvation is not based on anyone physically traversing some length of space in either direction and it is all about what we do in this life we have right now.

I totally agree here.
You folks who insist that naming Jesus as my savior! is the only way; who insist that one can do all sorts of good and humane and kind and generous deeds but will get no redemption unless they say Jesus! Please!;
well, you are cowards.
Narrow-minded, exclusionary cowards. Have some gumption, for Christ's sake!
Be the change and the way!!
Stop relying on some long-ago-dead person to ensure your salvation, when you alone are in charge of it!

You who imagine you have a handle on the truth of it, but are too reliant on a crutch of 'SAY THIS NAME!' to see the actual edicts, just do not really get it. You don't. Good Lord!

The Golden Rule. That is the edict.
(mod-chastise expected).

@ frip and nut
Not really interested in talking to people on a high horse.
So when you get a less evil attitude I may consider it but meanwhile so long to this little chit chat

reply to post by wildtimes

The Golden Rule. That is the edict.

The redemption the New Testament talks about is being freed from the old religious system so we can live according to a real ethical standard, like what you mentioned, and not just doing things for the religion.

Shallow personal attacks aren't necessary. We only illuminate our own personal feelings of inadequacy when we do so. Too, the initiative; aggressiveness; resourcefulness (gumption), is evident where it is and where it is not.

To disagree with someone is one thing but to be frustrated in spirit to the point of personal attack because someone's gumption for the Word they've read and studied and know is unwavering in the midst of trying is another. If you don't agree with the Word of God then don't agree, but those folk who insist that naming Jesus as savior because he is The Way, The Truth, and The Life, believe so because Jesus said so and proved so therefore take it up with Him before you decide to let your emotions rule you. Even those who insist that one can do all sorts of good and humane and kind and generous deeds but will get no redemption unless they say Jesus believe so because of the truth they've found in scripture in light of our human condition. The Truth is a narrow path. And if truth exists, then a narrow, but true path is necessitated therefor those who would argue truth without knowledge of truth, basing their assumptions on carnal knowledge, are those who are truly blind and narrow-minded to the point of self-derogation. Judge yourself, and then lets have a real reasoning together.

Logic and Science both tell us live men don't die for dead men; live dogs are better than dead lions. Therefor, for countless individuals to sacrifice their lives unto to such heinous death for Christ after being raised on the cross and buried in a tomb only speaks to one truth, and that truth is that Jesus is not dead. Throughout all history, factions of pseudo-christs haven risen. And when they died, so too did their following. Only one exception exists in all of history and if truth exists as God has set forth, then only one true exception could exist. "Long-ago-dead person"? The logic, science, and history one may so heavily lean on would say Christ Jesus is alive.

For we, who have no intrinsic power, no not even over death to assume that the power of salvation, and redemption are in our charge is anathema, is blind, and based on emotional desire to be God whereas if God exists then we are not. And if He not exist, then death is our god for it then would hold ultimate power over us. So whether God or no God, we are not God.

The Golden rule? Those who have the Gold make the rules, right?
Redemption according to the Gospel is redemption from sin and the wages of sin according to God's graciousness through our faith, hope and love for Him and no other god. Jesus is His gift to us; to be recieved, not worked for. Likewise we are to Love our neighbor as ourselves which is why we debate truth with those who would lean on the crutch of their own understanding as opposed to the firm foundation of the Word. We do this all for you because we want you to be with us and Jesus in love, peace, and truth; and not for any other reason yet you deride and ridicule us as if we sit on a high horse, condescending you but the words whereby we argue are not our own but Christs. You yet hate us because of Christ; because we contend with you for faith?

Sad day for all of man-kind when the evil of relative truth becomes the way of the world.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

Likewise we are to Love our neighbor as ourselves which is why we debate truth with those who would lean on the crutch of their own understanding as opposed to the firm foundation of the Word.

There's a place for that but sometimes you have to use your understanding.

Read Daniel 9:25, where Gabriel says to study and to think and you will find understanding.

Going to war over your precious 2 Thessalonians is not appropriate. People can decide themselves if the evidence is against its authenticity. Chuck Missler is not going to go for that because it pulls the main support out for his rapture theory.