Theory, the 24 Elders

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by jhill76
No man has a throne next to God.

"He who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I myself conquered and sat down with my father on his throne"- Revelation ch3 v21

Jesus is not man. He came in the form of man.
There are three types of spirits in the beginning, besides Father and his seven. (Those from above (angels), man, and Jesus himself)

Your Christology is very Gnostic. Jesus was 100% man and 100% God.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

They have throwns (they don't have crowns, John said this because it looks like a crown, it is actually pure light.), because they are king as you say of their particular area. Let me give some examples.

Archangel Michael - Over all soldiers and protection
The Arch - Over all of the archangels
Pravuil - Records all of the deeds of the Lord
Archangel Gabriel - Over the watchers

They have thrones, this transpires right after the judgment seat of Christ where the crowns are awarded. And besides that, they are singing the song of the redeemed, that's the key!

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by jhill76
No man has a throne next to God.

"He who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I myself conquered and sat down with my father on his throne"- Revelation ch3 v21

Jesus is not man. He came in the form of man.
There are three types of spirits in the beginning, besides Father and his seven. (Those from above (angels), man, and Jesus himself)

Your Christology is very Gnostic. Jesus was 100% man and 100% God.

He was man in the sense of appearance and being, yes he was a man. But, Jesus could do other things that man can't do. One is for God to overtake him and speak and perform other actions. His spirit is built differently than a common man's spirit is built, if that makes sense. Man was not even mentioned in the very beginning when it all started. Father told all of the angels he is going to build another one that is different, which in turn became man.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by jhill76

 

You missed my point.
If Jesus is sitting on the throne of his Father
and the conquerors are sitting on the same throne as Jesus,
then the conquerors are sitting on the throne of his Father.
That is the wonder of the gospel, that humanity has been brought up that close to God.

Actually, Jesus is sitting in His Father's throne. Jesus's throne in Revelation will be in Jerusalem when He returns, that's the throne the bride will sit upon, not His Fathers.

reply to post by jhill76

He was man in the sense of appearance and being, yes he was a man. But, Jesus could do other things that man can't do. One is for God to overtake him and speak and perform other actions. His spirit is built differently than a common man's spirit is built, if that makes sense. Man was not even mentioned in the very beginning when it all started. Father told all of the angels he is going to build another one that is different, which in turn became man.

He was man, Mary was human, He was God, His Father was the Holy Spirit. He was not a Son of Adam, He's the Son of God. Adam was a direct creation of God, Jesus was God the Son taking on human flesh, adding humanity to His pre-existent diety. The God who created the universe began his life on Earth breastfeeding and crapping His pants. He was also 100% man.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jhill76

 

He was man in the sense of appearance and being, yes he was a man. But, Jesus could do other things that man can't do. One is for God to overtake him and speak and perform other actions. His spirit is built differently than a common man's spirit is built, if that makes sense. Man was not even mentioned in the very beginning when it all started. Father told all of the angels he is going to build another one that is different, which in turn became man.

He was man, Mary was human, He was God, His Father was the Holy Spirit. He was not a Son of Adam, He's the Son of God. Adam was a direct creation of God, Jesus was God the Son taking on human flesh, adding humanity to His pre-existent diety.

How is this any different than what I have stated? My point, he is not the same as James walking down the street, he was a man when he was here, but different from other humans. Context gets lost in terminology.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

They have throwns (they don't have crowns, John said this because it looks like a crown, it is actually pure light.), because they are king as you say of their particular area. Let me give some examples.

Archangel Michael - Over all soldiers and protection
The Arch - Over all of the archangels
Pravuil - Records all of the deeds of the Lord
Archangel Gabriel - Over the watchers

They have thrones, this transpires right after the judgment seat of Christ where the crowns are awarded. And besides that, they are singing the song of the redeemed, that's the key!

They already have thrones as this present day and time. They are seated at the feast (some call it the celebration) and when they are called for the meetings.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I could point out that in the last two chapters of Revelation there is just the one throne, "the throne of God and the Lamb".
Anyway, the point of the phrase "on the same throne" is "reigning together, in close union", so the exact location is less important.
What I'm doing here is supporting your contention that the elders represent humanity.

reply to post by jhill76


Well, Gnostics teach that He really wasn't completely human like everyone else. That he was kinda like a superhero Jesus. It seemed you were going down that direction. He was 100% man in the flesh. His Spirit was 100% God.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I could point out that in the last two chapters of Revelation there is just the one throne, "the throne of God and the Lamb".
Anyway, the point of the phrase "on the same throne" is "reigning together, in close union", so the exact location is less important.
What I'm doing here is supporting your contention that the elders represent humanity.

I was just being more precise, I realize we're on the same dodgeball team. Yes, the elders represent the bride, not all of humanity. Just the redeemed of Christ, through His blood.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jhill76

 

Well, Gnostics teach that He really wasn't completely human like everyone else. That he was kinda like a superhero Jesus. It seemed you were going down that direction. He was 100% man in the flesh. His Spirit was 100% God.

edit on 9-2-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

I am not aware of what they teach. There are other cases of humans being not completely human like himself. (In the same sort of process, but not his status) These are angels taking on the form of man, to do certain tasks down here. They have other abilities that man don't have. These are not like superhero powers, just some things that are needed to complete said tasks.

For the instance of Jesus, his memory from above had to stay intake for him to remain pure.

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

They have throwns (they don't have crowns, John said this because it looks like a crown, it is actually pure light.), because they are king as you say of their particular area. Let me give some examples.

Archangel Michael - Over all soldiers and protection
The Arch - Over all of the archangels
Pravuil - Records all of the deeds of the Lord
Archangel Gabriel - Over the watchers

They have thrones, this transpires right after the judgment seat of Christ where the crowns are awarded. And besides that, they are singing the song of the redeemed, that's the key!

They already have thrones as this present day and time. They are seated at the feast (some call it the celebration) and when they are called for the meetings.

Who sits on thrones?? KINGS

Which kings in the Bible also are priests? Melchizedek, and the bride of Christ, the church. The clincher is they are singing the Song of the Redeemed. They are NOT angels, they cannot be redeemed, Christ didn't incarnate as an angel and die for them.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Yes, I did mean redeemed humanity- as distinct from angels.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Who sits on thrones, on Earth? Kings. But, how can you say a throne is the same up there as it is down here?

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Who sits on thrones, on Earth? Kings. But, how can you say a throne is the same up there as it is down here?

Good Bible Hermaneutics is to look at every other reference in scripture. "Thrones" is a metaphor for kings/kingdoms. Kings sit on thrones, and they have "crowns" to throw at Christ's feet.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Who sits on thrones, on Earth? Kings. But, how can you say a throne is the same up there as it is down here?

Good Bible Hermaneutics is to look at every other reference in scripture. "Thrones" is a metaphor for kings/kingdoms. Kings sit on thrones, and they have "crowns" to throw at Christ's feet.

Again, this was Johns words. A man here on Earth trying to describe the things of above. That's my point.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Yes, I did mean redeemed humanity- as distinct from angels.

“You are worthy to take the scroll and break its seals and open it. For you were slaughtered, and your blood has ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. 10 And you have caused them to become a Kingdom of priests for our God. And they will reign[d] on the earth.”

If this is humanity, why aren't they saying ransomed for us and not people. They are talking about a different group. They even say and you have caused them. Again, they are talking about a different group.

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Who sits on thrones, on Earth? Kings. But, how can you say a throne is the same up there as it is down here?

Good Bible Hermaneutics is to look at every other reference in scripture. "Thrones" is a metaphor for kings/kingdoms. Kings sit on thrones, and they have "crowns" to throw at Christ's feet.

Again, this was Johns words. A man here on Earth trying to describe the things of above. That's my point.

The 24 elders and the candlesticks are metaphors for the bride of Christ, the church. He's preparing to open the scroll after the harpazo , Jesus's judgment, and the marriage supper, the bride has her crowns and is singing the Song of the Redeemed.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Who sits on thrones, on Earth? Kings. But, how can you say a throne is the same up there as it is down here?

Good Bible Hermaneutics is to look at every other reference in scripture. "Thrones" is a metaphor for kings/kingdoms. Kings sit on thrones, and they have "crowns" to throw at Christ's feet.

Again, this was Johns words. A man here on Earth trying to describe the things of above. That's my point.

The 24 elders and the candlesticks are metaphors for the bride of Christ, the church. He's preparing to open the scroll after the harpazo , Jesus's judgment, and the marriage supper, the bride has her crowns and is singing the Song of the Redeemed.

John came up to heaven and saw these things for what they were at this time (I'm talking strictly about the time when he was speaking of the elders and the creatures.) He used those words to describe what he saw to the best of his ability. Later in Revelation, he was given what was to come.

Look at the Little Scroll verses. The elders were already seated. The Little Scroll is supposed to be opened up before judgement. So, by your conclusions, how are the elders already seated?

reply to post by jhill76


Because it's a song. It should be obvious the 24 elders are redeemed humanity. With their crowns and prayer vials they are symbolic of kings and priests.