Theory, the 24 Elders

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

I for one and looking for the harpazo, i pray like every day it happens. It would be a huge validation when people start disappearing in front of other people right out in public, ofcourse the media would spin it as mass UFO abduction.

I think that's what this verse is about:

Romans 11:11.~ "I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles."

Since none of us can see what's going on in the spiritual world the only way the Jews could know that salvation had come to the "gentiles" (bride of Christ) was by way of the harpazo. I think that one event will lift their spiritual blindness and provoke them to jealousy that salvation has come to the gentiles.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

The Holy Spirit regenerates a man, we don't regenerate ourselves.

You believe that you are not regenerated until you are raptured and until then, you are just as sinful as you ever were.

He's our redeemer, we don't redeem ourselves.

Jesus redeemed us from having to be under the old Law of Moses. This does not release us from the obligation of the new covenant law of faith which is the guidance of the spirit into righteousness.

You're one of the folks who thinks people make themselves righteous then the Spirit comes to abide in them.

Righteousness is a declaration as we go through judgment. We can't force God to give us a positive verdict but we do adjust our lives to be right according to how God desires us to be and enables us to attain through the spirit.

You think man is the problem, yet man is also the solution to his problem of sin.

Not sure what you mean by this. I think the problem is the world as in the universe itself. If you study the Old Testament, at least to me, I am left with the impression that it is saying that the land itself causes whoever lives on it to become evil. The solution is God, and seeking God and when you find God, to go ahead and act as directed.
God is not going to save evil people. You think that is wrong and that by wishing, you can go to heaven. You are living in a fantasy world where wishes come true. That is not how it works, the religious people will be saved and those who scoff at religion will perish forever.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

He was born in 51 AD and died in 96 AD.

You've really gone for a loop now.
You think John was born after Jesus was crucified?
That is really weird.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Before this exchange goes much further, somebody should point out that the two of you are now talking about two different people and getting each other confused.
You are talking about John, he was talking about Domitian ("we know when he ruled and when he died").
A few steps need to be re-traced.

reply to post by jmdewey60

You believe that you are not regenerated until you are raptured

Wow, that sucks for everyone who died before the rapture then huh? No, I've never said that (again). A person is regenerated by the Holy Spirit at the time of conversion. People receive the Holy Spirit when they first believe. (Galatians)

and until then, you are just as sinful as you ever were.

Yet another lie. I've said a hundred times here on these forums that if a person's life isn't marked by change or repentance that means their faith is in vain. JUST a page back I said we should be repentant of our old way of life. Wow..

STOP lying JM, for Pete's sake. Lying is NOT a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

He was born in 51 AD and died in 96 AD.

You've really gone for a loop now.
You think John was born after Jesus was crucified?
That is really weird.

The one who went on that proverbial "loop" is you JM. I said we know when he "ruled and when he died", did John "rule" or Emperor Domitian? Perhaps you read too fast? That would explain how you seemingly miss virtually everything people type.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Before this exchange goes much further, somebody should point out that the two of you are now talking about two different people and getting each other confused.
You are talking about John, he was talking about Domitian ("we know when he ruled and when he died").
A few steps need to be re-traced.

Apparently "ruling" is something John also shared with Ceaser Domitian.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Are you always reading something that explains something, but is what you are reading always something from someone who agrees with your point of view?

When John had the vision, written after Nero, the vision was for a future time.

This is interesting that you would make these two statements in the same post: 1) that I read things that agree with my view, and 2) John wrote Revelation on some particular date, where John never specifies a date in his book for when he had these visions that the book is based on. I don't suppose you read this in a book? And I wonder if another author might have written a book with a different date which you don't like because it does not agree with your views on when John did have these visions.
I think this is a case of wanting to have your cake and to eat it too, where the argument that supports the later date is based on what sort of persecutions that historically were going on that best fit the type of persecutions described in Revelation. The argument for the later date is based on persecutions under Emperor Domitian. While accepting that premise, you still want to claim that Revelation is about future events.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

I for one and looking for the harpazo, i pray like every day it happens. It would be a huge validation when people start disappearing in front of other people right out in public, of course the media would spin it as mass UFO abduction.

Excuse me interrupting, but...these statements indicate that you pray for it every day, not for your soul's rest and relief, but to vindicate your human theories that are based on thin air. A validation. So everyone will say, 'wow, lonewolf was right!'. Right?

If that's not it, what does it matter to you if people don't believe the same hypothesis that you do? No one can prove any of them true. You created a thread here that is getting everyone all animated and defensive...but none of you are qualified to insist beyond any doubt that your version is the TRUTH. At least three of you are self-described Christians, and you don't agree with each other! Let alone those who do not affiliate with any faith in particular.

I think it's odd that when people do some studying and research into the actual sources of this whole topic, they are chastised for 'only reading what agrees with their ideas' and usually by people who rarely (if ever) provide outside sources with any sort of credentials. Your 'Bible Study Group' is not the Exclusive Committee of the Absolute Truth.

(btw, jmdewey, thanks for the reference/book info.)

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I for one and looking for the harpazo, i pray like every day it happens. It would be a huge validation when people start disappearing in front of other people right out in public, ofcourse the media would spin it as mass UFO abduction.

I think that's what this verse is about:

Romans 11:11.~ "I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles."

Since none of us can see what's going on in the spiritual world the only way the Jews could know that salvation had come to the "gentiles" (bride of Christ) was by way of the harpazo. I think that one event will lift their spiritual blindness and provoke them to jealousy that salvation has come to the gentiles.

True. There are 2 events and only 2 events that would cause them to seek the Messiah and that would be that they are nearly exterminated into extinction worse than anything that happened in the holocaust (some say that was faked, i honestly do not know) and the second event would definately be the harpazo event in seeing that God chose another people over them which would certainly be a rebuke from him to them and an undeniable rebuke at that. That would be the kind of slap in the face that even a blind man could see coming.

reply to post by wildtimes


Nope i pray not just for vindication but because i am sick of this world and i want to leave it behind. I am tired of seeing all the murdering, money grubbing, baby killing, pornographic, starvation, diseased, lying, corrupted, sexually immoral evils this world swims in and loves. I can't wait for the day the King of kings returns and puts a stop to it.

reply to post by chr0naut

But my personal belief is that the "harpazo" is referenced several times in the scriptures and this will happen prior to the last three years of the "tribulation" period. I have no idea actually when, or even if this is a single instance.

From what i have read there is evidence indicative that there are actually three harpazo events. Pre,mid and post tribulation. The mid event comes around the 5th seal when the Temple is rebuilt, the final harpazo happens before the final battle. This could possibly have to do with the 3 angels giving their warnings, each harpazo is a warning in itself telling the remaining people to get right before the end. Some will see these warnings and know exactly what is happening. This is what i get from reading Revelation and Isaiah. Isaiah actually has quite alot to say about end time events, specifically chapters 56+. Isaiah actually gives more in depth details as to what happens and what we need to do to make it right with the Lord so that our spirits are attuned to him before the end. Isaiah isn't warning just the jews, he is warning the christians too, "the people taken for the Lord's namesake" as he puts it. The Lord is called Yahweh but he has another name...Jesus the Christ or as the hebrew know him Yahshua haMeshiach.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

A person is regenerated by the Holy Spirit at the time of conversion. People receive the Holy Spirit when they first believe. (Galatians)

You should adopt the practice of taking what you write
and using it as a search term in Google before posting it.
Here's what came up as the first hit on the above:
Acts 19:2
and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

Please define the term: regenerated

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

i am sick of this world and i want to leave it behind.

Do you have a Bible verse which would indicate that what you said, that I am quoting, is the proper attitude of a Christian?
Doesn't James tell us that proper religion is to alleviate the suffering of others?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Well Jesus flat out tells us "not all who say to me Lord Lord, shall enter the kingdom of my Father" So obvious there's going to be people who pay lip service to him but whose hearts are not right and neither are their ways.

He also says that every tongue will confess that He is Lord that day as well. All who are chosen will come, and all who come will in no wise be cast out.

Of a truth, every eye will see. And every knee will bow. But, not all receive the harpazzo which is what the discussion topic was about. Salvation in total is much larger than just those harpazo'd. John, in rev, mentions those who come out of great tribulation.

Also, according to John in revelation 21, the "Bride of Christ" is actually a reference to the new Jerusalem that comes out of the sky where we will live with Jesus inside the 12 pearl gates here on Earth for a millineum or more. The interpretation of the "Church" being the "Bride" isn't scriptural. The Harpozo'd are those who accept the invitation to the bridegroom feast (mtthw 22). We, the church, are not the bride but the children of the bride and groom.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

...Jesus the Christ or as the hebrew know him Yahshua haMeshiach.

What?
Abraham was the Hebrew.
Did Abraham know the name of the Messiah?
And where is your evidence for this?
If you are talking about people speaking modern Hebrew, that would be Israelis who do not believe in Jesus so your point is completely meaningless. People who believe in Jesus believe in the Christian Bible which is otherwise known as the New Testament and that book says that the name of Jesus is, Jesus.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

A person is regenerated by the Holy Spirit at the time of conversion. People receive the Holy Spirit when they first believe. (Galatians)

You should adopt the practice of taking what you write and using it as a search term in Google before posting it.

Wow, so now we need glorious Google to talk about Jesus? How did Paul manage without Google? What if I believe the Word of God is more authoritative than Google or books written by critics? Is that bad?

Here's what came up as the first hit on the above:

You quoted from ACTS, yet I put "Galatians" in parenthesis. Go look in Galatians.

Please define the term: regenerated

Really, you already forgot how to Google?

re·gen·er·a·tion (r-jn-rshn)

n.

1. The act or process of regenerating or the state of being regenerated.
2. Spiritual or moral revival or rebirth.
3. Biology Regrowth of lost or destroyed parts or organs.

Regeneration = rebirth/born again

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

Of a truth, every eye will see. And every knee will bow. But, not all receive the harpazzo which is what the discussion topic was about. Salvation in total is much larger than just those harpazo'd.

The harpazo isn't a blessing for salvation, it's a blessing for the overcomer. I myself still pray that I be accounted worthy to go in it, but I don't think I'm sufficiently sanctified yet. If I were the judge of whether or not I was "overcome" enough to go or not I'd have to vote "no".

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

The interpretation of the "Church" being the "Bride" isn't scriptural.

Are you including Revelation with "scripture"?
My interpretation of it (The Bride) would be the life that the church enjoys thanks to Jesus.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

i am sick of this world and i want to leave it behind.

Do you have a Bible verse which would indicate that what you said, that I am quoting, is the proper attitude of a Christian?
Doesn't James tell us that proper religion is to alleviate the suffering of others?

'

So i am wrong in longing for Christ's return and an end to this evil? I am not going to make a religion out of providing for everyone's needs to glorify myself, because that is exactly what would it would lead to. I am far from rich and i help far more than i can afford to, so much to the point it causes fights with my wife and i have problems paying my bills.

Do not even talk to me about the proper attitudes of a christian you have no idea what i put myself through, to the point of destroying my own body and health.