I used to be a believer...

Fleabit,

Here's a good article outlining the plausibility of the admittedly very exotic TR3B:

www.rense.com...

(No, I'm not a scientist, I'm rather simple like that!

The top-secret aircraft theory defies common sense. To believe they would choose to fly their test craft over major cities, only to be witnessed and caught on camera. If they are real, it's far more likely to be extraterrestrial or some other origin.

Not just caught on camera - risk crashing it and tech falling into the wrong hands. Flying it for extended periods (sometimes hours) over cities. When there are readily available open spaces owned by the military which to test these craft in. It's odd how known craft WERE only tested in those areas (such as the stealth bomber), but these secret huge triangles.. are tested over major cities.

Not to mention these sightings happen over foreign soil. And the same excuse is used.. even though it makes even LESS sense. There is no reason or need to test expensive, secret tech over populated areas, and even more reasons to not do so over foreign or even enemy soil. Not to mention the craft seen in sightins defy physics - we don't have craft of that size, that can fly at those speeds, silently.. which is an important point. The lack of noise is critical, and people ignore these. With our current technology, the larger the object we have to keep up, the noisier the thing is. Even your "stealth" jets are quite loud when seen in person. The only thing of the reported size of some UFOs that can stay silent are blimps. However, these only move at 53 mph (or we'll grant a bit more speed for the super-secret tech versions that seem to be everywhere). However, the objects sighted are certainly moving much faster than that.

And while yes, humans can be unreliable, they are not THAT unreliable. People do not give eyewitnesses, especially when there are many of them, near enough credit. I can identify within seconds, pretty much anything I see in the sky, as could most here, I'd wager. I've seen dots and weird shapes, and I just wait a few seconds, and between lights, speed, what it looks like shapewise, etc.. I can figure what it probably is. If a jumbo jet or a weird looking plane were flying overhead, I don't think I'd be so.. off.. in my sighting, that I'd report I saw a huge triangular craft, several hundred feet across, with large lights on the underside.

reply to post by indigo21


I believe they are seen over population centers on occasion to perpetuate the cover story of aliens maybe, or trial visible stealth, or some other unknown motivation.

I can't agree aliens are much more likely, but hey-ho!
'When the impossible is eliminated, whatever remains, no matter how unlikely, must be the truth'. I think that just because such sightings don't conform to one's traditional paradigm of an aircraft does not mean the one and only remaining explanation is 'Aliens'.


If a report was commissioned to review the past 65 years of ET oriented ufology I believe it would say

'What little evidence has been presented has not been of sufficient caliber to sway the general public into confident belief of ET visitation. Also the hard core of believers' enthusiasm has lead to many charlatans & snake oil salesmen to enter the fray; not with the goal of enlightenment but instead the lining of their own pockets. Persons such as these also make proper logical research harder to undertake. Until ufology is officially recognized and regulated (weeding out con men) the chances of any real breakthroughs remain remote at best.'

Originally posted by indigo21
The top-secret aircraft theory defies common sense. To believe they would choose to fly their test craft over major cities, only to be witnessed and caught on camera. If they are real, it's far more likely to be extraterrestrial or some other origin.

First off, glimpses of both the stealth fighter and stealth bomber were occasionally caught by the public during their test phases. Testing isn't always done where people can't see them.

Secondly, it may not just be testing. There have been some secret aircraft that were operational and secret at the same time. The F-117 Stealth Fighter was used in combat in Panama prior to the U.S. ever showing the planes to the public. Another example is the SR-71 Blackbird (and its A-12 predecessor). These planes were running reconnaissance flights before the public knew about their existence. I would suspect that there are secret aircraft today that are flown operationally.

I'm not saying all UFO sightings are secret planes. I'm just saying that secret planes ARE probably out there, and flying in areas that could possibly be seen by the public.

*double post*

reply to post by thesearchfortruth

But I think UFO's could simply be top secret military aircraft.

Is there any evidence against this theory?

Two key pieces of evidence...

1. Many sightings were reported before we had created our own flying craft.

2. If we had saucer technology in the 40's, when the modern phenomenon began, then surely we wouldn't still be relying on jets and propellers over half a century later. The military industrial complex simply doesn't work that way.

On the contrary, I don't WANT to be a believer....as to me, it means that these visitors seem to have no interest in being friendly or helping, want to maintain secrecy, and therefore likely have an agenda we will not find to be pleasing. I'd rather be wrong, and have everything be dismissible by natural phenomenon, other manmade craft, etc. Problem is, although the vast majority of cases fall into those categories, following the logic in those that do not, leads to a different conclusion...that some more advanced intelligence is behind it.

All I know with any degree of certainty is this:

i) guessing the true motivations of others -be that alien visitors, test pilots in their $180-gagillion prototype hovering over Phoenix, or indeed anybody for that matter- is nigh-on impossible to truthfully determine. So we're just making guesses (not even educated ones!) about who *might* be doing what and why.

ii) I'd give my right arm (figuratively speaking) to see an ET flying saucer up close, seeing its' shape, colour, details. Not a light in the night sky many miles away. I wanna see it properly damn it. For a ride I'd throw in my left arm too! The technology implied makes the 11yr old nerd in me drool!

Beyond this, the acknowledgment of ignorance is the extent of my wisdom regarding ufology.

reply to post by jimboMakkka82


True, but as we have only ourselves as a benchmark for the motivations of other sentient beings, we have to use what we have.

Alien motivations may be completely different than ours, but there's just as good a shot that they are motivated by the same things we are.

I'm still a believer. The fact that we don't have definitive proof, isn't enough for me to change my mind. That, and I know what I witnessed was something I'm not remotely familiar with.

Many say the government can't keep secrets, but I beg to differ. Compartmentalization is the key. If aliens/UFOs are real, perhaps only a handful of people know the truth. How easy would it be then to keep secrets? If me and five friends know something to be fact, it's easy to keep it a secret.

There is a local radio show host (a minor acquaintance of mine) here in the Twin Cities that bought a house I had done some work at. Many people knew I had known where the home was located. One guy asked me numerous times where the house was. My reply? I'm not telling you. I've still never revealed the location to anyone.

Keeping secrets is easy if everyone involved is trustworthy.

Originally posted by fleabit
Not to mention these sightings happen over foreign soil. And the same excuse is used.. even though it makes even LESS sense.

Why can't it be a secret craft from that country?

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Now I consider myself 'openminded' about the subject of UFO's.

I believe that UFO's could very easily be top secret military projects...

The fact is, believers and skeptics are both just guessing... There is such a shroud of mystery around this subject different conclusions can be drawn while looking at the same data, just approaching it from a different perspective.

I want to believe. I think many people do.

But I think UFO's could simply be top secret military aircraft.

Is there any evidence against this theory?

edit on 4-2-2012 by thesearchfortruth because: (no reason given)

I'm sure the government has reverse engineered alien aircraft and flown them perhaps but who knows. I can tell you with certainty that most UFOs are not of Earth origin at least the ones I've seen absolutely no way. I have seen a UFO move in a perfect oval in mid air above buildings for starters.

reply to post by thesearchfortruth


Its probably both. We tend to think of E.T.'s as more advanced forms of ourselves, but there could also be other types, that we might no be necessarily able to detect, and vice versa.

reply to post by thesearchfortruth


I feel the same way - I have seen 2 UFOs - I beleive they could be military.
Nothing I have seen or read has convinced me that there are Alien UFOs
Yet I am open minded to the idea that Alien UFOs exist

I too began to be more skeptical, and I still am. but the other night I had this really weird dream, I saw what looked like greys only they were green and seemed totally biological, standing by my bed. then i woke up. i kept telling them to go away but they wouldn't until i woke up, and it looked exactly like my bed/room. opening my eyes was like just seeing a slightly more 'real' version of the same scene, if that makes any sense.

Anyone here knowledgable with photoshop ? I have a photo I'm going to start a thread about soon as I have 20 replies on here because I am baffled by what I stumbled across after many months of taking a photo. If it is what I think it is lets just say I can get on the news .....

I wish I was friends with a bookmaker, or a statistician, to study the form sheet here...
I'd say the odds regarding who the [bleep] might be responsible for ufo's would be overwhelmingly in favour of a terrestrial solution.
Maybe I'll pursue that!

Originally posted by jimboMakkka82
I wish I was friends with a bookmaker, or a statistician, to study the form sheet here...
I'd say the odds regarding who the [bleep] might be responsible for ufo's would be overwhelmingly in favour of a terrestrial solution.
Maybe I'll pursue that!

UFOs are not terrestrial I have witnessed dozens of UFO's and as an abductee myself I can tell you are 100% wrong

Originally posted by Falgore

Originally posted by jimboMakkka82
I wish I was friends with a bookmaker, or a statistician, to study the form sheet here...
I'd say the odds regarding who the [bleep] might be responsible for ufo's would be overwhelmingly in favour of a terrestrial solution.
Maybe I'll pursue that!

UFOs are not terrestrial I have witnessed dozens of UFO's and as an abductee myself I can tell you are 100% wrong

I can't believe that no matter how advanced humans are that they are advanced aeronautically enough to be the source for even 1 UFO-type craft.

I wish people would make the distinction between, Alien space craft, and Unidentified Flying Objects.
There is plenty of evidence for the latter (I saw something I could not identify), but none for the former.