How green zealots are destroying the planet!

reply to post by ShockTruther


good points.
people should wake up, and they should start somewhere here (I dare anyone to debunk this video):


Please also feel free to post any content videos, or links that you find interesting, relating to the broader area.
I agree, most have been duped by food supply, big pharma, but originally human thinking was corrupted.
The brainwashing operation was so effective, it is scary.
Look at the reaction here, people have become defenders or "nothing" as no one is denying climate change.
All this is very scary, good to find an alike mind.
We need critical thinking (real critical thinking) and systems thinking (not for everyone) and reductionism (not for decision making, but for understanding)....what do you think?

reply to post by BBalazs



I'll watch this tomorrow and get back to you. For now, I do agree. This issue is systematic and far from simple. It should not be treated as if a quick fix of the existing system (the only solutions we are presented with) will be enough.


Also, it is good to find someone who uses logic instead of emotional appeals. Those of us who choose the path of education, honesty, thought, caution, and moderation have truly chosen the path of most resistance in the modern human world.

Luckily mother nature is easier on us. As this is the path of least resistance in the natural world.

reply to post by ShockTruther


The two last parts. Very well put. Luckily I have a high grasp over my emotions, and ones who I truly care about and love, get the better of this. I don't allow my emotions to rule over me, I rule over them, which doesn't mean I am without emotions, in fact quite the opposite.
I do still get upset, especially with ignorance, as demonstrated here by some, who utterly disregard what I am talking about, and just hallucinate their own words and ideas, into my lines.
No crystal clear thinking present.
I am also a realist, I think we have lost this fight. This is a good litmus test. There is just so many of them, and thinking is so utterly corrupted, that in all honesty, we are a dying bread.I remain skeptical of wether change is possible, although I am optimistically looking forward to it. I do my best, making sure that those who do surround me, get all the info they need. And to my last breath I will be true to myself, with a clear mind.

I found this site pretty good, it got a nice list (see below and link) and what science really says:

skepticalscience.com...

Most used climate myths (see on the left on that page for this list):
- Climate's changed before
- It's the sun
- It's not bad
- There is no consensus
- It's cooling
- Models are unreliable
- Temp record is unreliable
- Animals and plants can adapt
- It hasn't warmed since 1998
- Antarctica is gaining ice

Also a nice opinion piece at that link ''There's no room for a climate of denial''.

reply to post by Plugin


good for you.
you posted this elsewhere too.
you do realize that NO ONE here is denying climate change, right?

Or you just pasted this here, and off you go, right?

reply to post by Plugin


Just to clarify - we're not denying climate change here. We agree that we are doing serious damage to the environment and that things need to change. However, we also think that jumping on the bandwagon of whatever solution is the most popular (ie best funded) is foolish. The decisions on how to move forward should not be based on science for profit (as is currently the case). They should be based on science aimed at benefitting all the people of the planet. Not just those in the developed countries.

Unfortunately, things don't currently work this way.

reply to post by ShockTruther


Sorry, my bad. It's true, they don't have a sollution, and like for co2 tax is a nice excuse, but hardly a sollution.

How to solve ''global health''? - less people is good start. But it's against many so called beliefs in ''freedom'' and there must be always more people for economic growth.

A sollution is, that it will solve at 1 point, thinking we people don't need nature, but since it's all connected, we could see a ''natural'' population decrease which will solve global health, the hard way.
Like the oil peak, we could have a human peak, dropping fast at some point.

It's like with cars, everything is build for cards, roads everywhere, how to change to something else? it's basicly not possible, it would cost too much money.

Or like some oil nations, people are doing very good in those country's mostly (except when they get invaded), the governments making tons of money, and when all the oil is all pumped out, they are standing in the streets naked, that's how short sided people are. It's all on the short term.

reply to post by ShockTruther


as long as people have reasonable "god" to pray to, and it makes it all alright, and makes the bogeyman (in this case climate change) go away, it is all solved, done and dusted.
the best part, is that by dualising the mind, you can actually get the "useful idiots" (a term I borrowed from kgb propaganda, to do the war for you, and squash all rational, skeptical, temperance, golden ration based views, that would actually help.
see it in action here.
thinking is now outsourced, to a higher authority.
the gospel, as it were of established dogma concerning climate change (sneakily renamed from global warming btw) has been established.
this is go to thinking. no need for own thinking anymore.
smash your idols, i believe moses said, and still 5ooo or so years latter, they maintain their idols.
the people will squash all objections, and rationality.
two camps clashing.
no wonder the voices or reason are unheard, they are muted out by BOTH camps.
but both camps are more religious then scientific.
1 point to add: it is not the actual funding that makes it "wrong", although in this case it does, but the thinking.
if people could only think clearly, and accept personally responsibility, then things would be different indeed.
off course in it current state, funding would dry up.
No one is interested in a rational, non evasive, and actually sustainable model.
No one is interested in what they can actually do, as long as they are lulled into the notion of false security and moral high ground, they will continually parrot the party lines.


also to add: There are really no bad ideas as such. what is evil, is as you also pointed out, when all OTHER ideas, are silenced, squashed. Just follow the money, many have said. Follow it in this case too. Look at what the policies and ideas presented so far have caused. The ideas were not necessarily bad, its just that there were a mutitude of BETTER ideas, all silenced and squashed. What I mean by not necessarily bad, is that we all make mistakes, etc. Keynes said: When facts change I change my opinion. Anyway, I think you understand what I am writing. Off course following a rational, skeptical path of inquiry will lead to a total reesesment, not in line with corporate goals. It is so see through. So easy to realize. Why do some have trouble seeing this?
We are on the worst possible path.
You will enjoy the documentary, it is truly scary, especially the first parts, where you can see that there is an established dogma, with o, that is ZERO scientific proof. Isn't that the very definition of quackery?

reply to post by Plugin

so you are advocating population reduction and status quo.
look who has the makings of a fanatic denier, now!

yes, there is nothing we can do - according to you.
so we should just leave everything as it is, and leave it to the big guys in charge who have already proved their inaptitude.
well, at least its a viewpoint.

but on what basis do you deny, giving other people a chance?
what grounds do you deny giving other people who can solve, and have proven able to solve problems a chance?

Your viewpoint is most sad.
Kind of like your own soma in the brave new world.
Happy go lucky minute to minute life.


Yet, you know we are all wrong, you know that as a fact, and establishment is right.
Humans are corruptible, you just proved it yourself, which should cause you grave concern for all those in charge of global climate change agenda as we speak. How corrupted are they? How do you trust them, if you know all people to have a corrupt streak?
Think harder!

reply to post by BBalazs


I’m not advocating pop. reduction or status quo.
Not saying we should kill people, just not more then 1 or 2 kids for example or any not harmful way to get less people.

And no the establishment is not right, or ‘‘how things are today’’ but I don’t believe it’s solvable, except the hard way which will happen anyways, IMO.

It’s like the occupy wall street movement, people protesting, and nothing will change with that, sadly.

Since oil we got cheap energy and plastic and you name what more, and such we got an population explosion, maybe cars are more enviromental friendly these days, but we got 1000 x as many cars, much bigger and made from many many more parts.

So you believe we can solve it, I don’t, exept the hard way, like when the oil is pumped out at some oil nation, people standing naked on the streets with their hands in their hair; screaming ''help'', what must we do?

And what you do or me, what will change? Like someone not eating flesh, out of principle, every day more animals will be slaughtered for food anyways.

Sure you can make an example, maybe some people will do the same, but still- it hardly makes a difference.

Maybe Jesus teachings was a sollution; in gods kingdom; the last will be the first, the first will be the last. So when the last for example someone who's begging on the streets, raise him up. Give him a place to stay, care for him or her. Maybe this whole money system is the anti christ and many will suffer, are suffering. People don't care really more about another, to busy to make their own lives better and so on.

So a sollution would maybe Jesus teachings, now-- when we are off that road big time, how to get back to his road? We basicly so far of that road; its even hard to believe in goodness in another person, most sadly.

reply to post by Plugin


its not that I believe, its that I for a fact know that there are MANY MANY options to try and make the world better, safer, etc.
thats my point, all this green hysteria has drowned out the voice of reason and sanity.
in hungarian there is a saying, loosely translated as:
man(kind) debate and debate away, and with faith have faith.

what it means to me is this: we have gotta try. especially if there are better ways. giving up is against nature, against humanity.
so its not so much that I am an optimist or that I believe in anything, its simply, that we as humans should try. when did we stop trying? when did we give up?

and yes, although it sounds very new age, all change begins with you. if you make amendments to your life (and I am not saying what to do), you have done all that you could in your space and time.
its up to you. and I am not talking about recycling here.

as for jesus, I tend to agree, but its not even that. if people just followed the 1o commandments, the world would be better.
after all, it says it right there: do not lie and bear false witness.
unfortunatley in this day and age, everything is dumbed down, and dualized.
what happened to science actually embracing all possibilities and actually admitting past faults?
when did science become a religion?
when did science become politics?
when did we start suppressing those, who ASKED questions?
this is so wrong.
and this we can change, by changing ourselves and our thinking.

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful" Seneca

if we the people demand proof and real options and access to all views, then is may just happen.
Isn't this what skepticism is about?

Right now this climate change is a perfect example, of all other option (legitimate ones too) being suppressed, and made into fools.
Why?

Perhaps the money, the greed?
All frowned upon by jesus too.

I think fault lies with the thinking. Dualistic thinking creates as atmosphere were what I don't take, someone else will, so better to squash them.
But let me ask you this: if your cloths don't fit you any more, do you deny that they don't fit, or do you get new cloths?

Our current thinking has lead to endless wars, rape of the earth, destruction, racism, psychotic disease, other disease, disintegrating society,,,,
Go for the jugular. All this lies with bad thinking habits. ALL OF IT!

I agree with you basicly and yes I would buy new clothes if my old ones doensn’t fit anymore.
But we drifted far away, and it’s moving in the same direction, even more... still.

Heck, when I was young everyone wanted new Nike shoes, this even got worse, and they want iPhones, more stuff for themself. From the top to the bottum it’s about me, me and me.

On schools, kids who do bad, get laughed at, get #ty jobs and no voice/respect, that is also dumbing down people, it’s the whole system which is rotten?

If we want real change, you or me can’t do it alone, that’s what I belief. You can change your thinking and do good in your time but it’s just a small drip of water on the cooking plate.

If you want to stop a war, you can’t do it alone, only with 1 voice and many many people; screaming: ENOUGH! stop this pointless #!! maybe maybe then we have a change.

www.youtube.com...

I read the article. It's a bunch of bullsh*t nonsense.

I swear spin has become this celebrated talent. Even the name, we used to call it being a "Bullsh*t Artist". I remember hearing in high school, when it comes to passing exams in college, you must learn the Art of Bullsh*t. Now, it's the spinner. And it's become this popular thing to do. To take a false idea, and twist it sooo much and leave out so much information that you can pretend there is a valid argument for it. And the person who can do it, probably feels pretty darn clever that they could. Can we make a case for animal lovers being the downfall of man? I bet we could. How about how peace would be bad? I'll bet there's a way to twist that...

I mean, when you reaaaaallllllly think about it, cast aside alll common sense, it totally makes sense that 'Green Zealots' are totally destroying the planet.

Any argument out there... When you really examine only a tiny part of it... like one syllable from one sentence, and disregard all contradictory evidence, you can actually create an impressive pile of total bullsh*t.

The bullsh*t artist strikes again.

reply to post by BBalazs


If his work could stand the scrutiny of real science he would publish his work per reviewed. He has not and that is telling enough for me. Anyone can write a book.

Here a nice result of all this co2:
theweek.com...
Are the oceans dying?

A new report warns that many types of fish and whales could be wiped out if we don't do something — fast

_______________


So how can we solve this? lets just forget climate change but concentrate on the above problem.

Let me give you an asnwer; there won't be a sollution!

Only when most life is gone in the oceans, then maybe people think; wtf are we doing.

reply to post by Plugin



I think me might leave it until it is too late. Really we still dont dont. But it is best to be precautionary and reduce are CO2 levels....

Is this coming from those same minds who tell me universal healthcare would make us exactly like Nazi Germany? Or from the people who say Obama is a secret muslim anti-Christ who pals around with terrorists? Because I know a lot of realllly good solid information comes that side. It's where I get all my knowledge.

Did you know Oil Spills are actually good for the environment? It's true. It actually cleans the ocean by making filthy things stick to it. It's the Big Greedy Fish industries who tell you it's bad. It's all money, maaaan.

reply to post by BBalazs


Good find. Always knew it was alot of BS!!
Everytime a volcano blows, it lets off more pollution than we could ever hope too. Green is the new red. Follow the money. All the usual suspects are getting filthy rich off of the propaganda and its mostly from the sheeple , I don't doubt.
They like being able to tell us what light bulb to use and how our toilets flush!

Originally posted by BBalazs
reply to post by ShockTruther

 

good points.
people should wake up, and they should start somewhere here (I dare anyone to debunk this video):

Please also feel free to post any content videos, or links that you find interesting, relating to the broader area.
I agree, most have been duped by food supply, big pharma, but originally human thinking was corrupted.
The brainwashing operation was so effective, it is scary.
Look at the reaction here, people have become defenders or "nothing" as no one is denying climate change.
All this is very scary, good to find an alike mind.
We need critical thinking (real critical thinking) and systems thinking (not for everyone) and reductionism (not for decision making, but for understanding)....what do you think?

edit on 12-2-2012 by BBalazs because: (no reason given)

I don't think a Scientology video is going to help your arguement very much.

Not sure how it relates to the thread anyway.