Ranger zaps off-leash dog walker with shock weapon

reply to post by cconn487


Not really.. please clarify your comparison between the Gestapo and?
Please clarify your comparison of Laws during Nazi Germany and ?

To which level of government are you making the comparison?
To which agency are you making the comparison?

And similar to NDAA

The power of the Gestapo most open to misuse was called Schutzhaft—"protective custody", a euphemism for the power to imprison people without judicial proceedings. An oddity of the system was that the prisoner had to sign his own Schutzhaftbefehl, an order declaring that the person had requested imprisonment—presumably out of fear of personal harm (which, in a way, was true). In addition, thousands of political prisoners throughout Germany—and from 1941, throughout the occupied territories under the Night and Fog Decree—simply disappeared while in Gestapo custody. During World War II, the Gestapo was expanded to around 46,000 members. After Heydrich's death in June 1942, and as the war progressed, Müller's power and the independence grew substantially. This trickled down the chain of his subordinates. It led to much more independence of action.

Imprison without judicial hearings. Seriously, its one big damn coincidence.

There isn't really one Agency you can put all the blame on. All the agencies answer to someone. There is always the chain of command. To think the active President is the top of the chain doesn't sit right with me.

I do not carry an ID with me. Lots of folks don't. AAAAAAGH DONT TAZE ME FOREST WENCH!!

reply to post by cconn487


Its not even close to being the same thing.

Again, please clarify your comparison using facts directly related to the year 2012.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by cconn487

 

Its not even close to being the same thing.

Again, please clarify your comparison using facts directly related to the year 2012.

There is no fact. There will never be a fact. Not that we will ever have access too. We do not have access to the full information to come to a concrete conclusion. My gut tells me people in power will do whatever it takes to keep that power.

Much like Hitler until he killed himself. I'm sure whoever is in charge has no intention of of going down like that which will only show an increase of more laws stripping freedoms away until it reaches a point where all hell breaks loose,

reply to post by cconn487


So you attempt to make a comparison yet you cant even explain the comparison when asked.

The only thing even remotely Nazi related I see is you and several others following the mindset of Roland Freisler, hearing only what you want, accepting only the facts that fit your mindset and condemning anyone who doesn't agree as an enemy of the state.

Congrats

reply to post by -W1LL


I don't see a problem with detaining him for breaking the law (dogs off leash) then giving false information to a police officer about his identity. But yeah .. hitting him in the back with a stun gun is pretty crazy. They both sounds like ignorant asshats. Personally pets off of leashes is a pet peeve of mine.. especially when they start running around my dog or being aggressive .. I wouldn't hesitate to take out a dog to protect my own, which I explain very clearly the owner has a limited time frame to control their dog or lose it.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by cconn487

 

So you attempt to make a comparison yet you cant even explain the comparison when asked.

The only thing even remotely Nazi related I see is you and several others following the mindset of Roland Freisler, hearing only what you want, accepting only the facts that fit your mindset and condemning anyone who doesn't agree as an enemy of the state.

Congrats

I'm not condemning anything. I accept the fact I could be totally wrong. I probably am, but who cares? I'm in it for the conspiracy factor. A what if scenario. I mean I see a trend, you may not, and thats cool. I'm really open minded.

cops do what ever the hell they want. this lady was probably remembering the lady ranger that was recently murdered and thought she would flex her AUTHORITY. but really she had no right to shoot an unarmed man in the back. what serious crime did he commit
rape , murder, armed robbery selling harsh street drugs like crack or crystal meth NO HE WAS WALKING TWO LITTLE DOGS IN LOCAL DOG TRAIL without a leash . she needs to stick with keeping yogi and booboo out of trash cans and did she hit him with ataser or taser rifle dart

reply to post by cconn487


Then my apologies for the comment I made. You came across as making a factual statement and not a hypothetical one.

Let me clarify my position.
The Ranger made a legitimate contact with the guy walking his dogs since they were not on a leash. The escalation came in when the guy decided to ignore the rangers request, and went over the line when he decided he could provide false information and then just walk away.

Should the taser have been used? I think, based on the info in the article, that it was not necessary. However there are some variables we dont know, which can affect use of force (subject resistance control).

* - Female officer vs. male subject.
As sexist as it sounds, female officers will go through / meet requirements in the force continuum faster than a male in the same situation.

* - How tall was the officer compared to the male.
* - How far apart is the weight difference
* - Is there any type of muscular difference (IE is the guy more muscular than the average male)
* - Are there any visible tattoos on the male that depict gang / prison history
* - Did the subject make any threats to the Ranger during the encounter?

All of which doesn't cross the minds of people in the thread.

The article is vague in these areas and at the same time the variables are taken into consideration when force is used. The standard that will be used to review her use of force will be what the Supreme Court established.

What exactly did the officer perceive as a threat when force was used. Hindsight 20/20 cannot be used since the review is after the fact.

Anyways, again my apologies.

Update with some more details, although the bigger questions remain unanswered for the moment.

NPS Investigating Use of Stun Gun in Leash Law Incident - Updated

Also a clarification that the article ignores - .

A Taser doesn't not affect the heart. It actually affects the brain, more specifically motor control (neuromuscular incapacitation). The pulse delivered is the same the brain uses for motor control. The Tasers effect, being more powerful than what the brain can send, overrides the brains signal on motor control. The result is the locking up of muscles. Once the cycle is ended, full control returns to the person.

The article also discusses the 9th circus court of appeals ruling on the use of Tasers. That ruling only affects those states that are within the 9th circus. Since the incident took place in California those standards apply in this case.

reply to post by Rockpuck

Personally pets off of leashes is a pet peeve of mine.. especially when they start running around my dog or being aggressive .. I wouldn't hesitate to take out a dog to protect my own, which I explain very clearly the owner has a limited time frame to control their dog or lose it.

I had a gorgeous, and well-behaved Pitbull for 14 years until his unfortunate suicide by Doritos bag. Anyhow, he was as gentle as a lamb to people, but he hated all other dogs, especially really fluffy ones. No kidding, the more hair they had, the more aggressive he was. He was on a leash 100% of the time, and he was well-trained to stay near me and not pull on the leash.

Other people would let their dogs run loose, and they would run right up to him, with him snarling and wanting to have them for a snack, and the people would think it was cute? If my pitbull had eaten a little foofoo dog, he would have been made out to be the bad guy, even though we were doing everything right, and they were the law breakers. It used to drive me insane.

There were a couple of times that I took up an extra loop or two of leash, and then let it go, and gave him just enough room to take a nice bite out of something when nobody was looking. I only let it happen to the most annoying of perpetrators though.

Yes, people who ignore leash laws are a pet peeve of mine too!

Back in the day they had more class.... the Park Ranger would have called the State Police who would have been waiting in the parking lot by the time the guy got there along with the park ranger. He would have been arrested, his car towed, and his dogs placed in a dog pound where they likely would have been gassed after 48 hours passed and the guy couldn't pick them up because he was still in jail.


They are zapping people as a military (nazi SS) PsyOps to break society into thinking you have no rights.

Shot him in the BACK....never told him what the problem was.....all supposedly over two little dogs not on a leash.

At some point somebody is going to snap and start aiming microwaves at LEO's and watching them do a dance....

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Also a clarification that the article ignores - .

A Taser doesn't not affect the heart. It actually affects the brain, more specifically motor control (neuromuscular incapacitation). The pulse delivered is the same the brain uses for motor control. The Tasers effect, being more powerful than what the brain can send, overrides the brains signal on motor control. The result is the locking up of muscles. Once the cycle is ended, full control returns to the person.

You better believe the Taser effects your heart. If you have heart disease/a heart valve problem (murmur) the Taser can kill you, and has killed people. It wouldn't take much to break loose some plaque in someones arteries as well causing strokes, which it HAS....and it HAS killed people.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
Update with some more details, although the bigger questions remain unanswered for the moment.

NPS Investigating Use of Stun Gun in Leash Law Incident - Updated

The guy had 2 dogs. 1 was off its leash. When the Park Ranger informed him of the leash law, he put the leash on the other little doggy.

And still got shot in the back. Poor guy.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I have a pair of LGD and they have an uncanny sense of who has good and bad intentions (The neighbor kids love the fluffballs but know enough not to go into the back yard when they are on duty) and you are right a yorkie just won't cut it as a guard dog.

reply to post by Xcathdra


You know the comparison.
Your tagline wouldn't be resident Jack Booted Thug if you didn't know you already were one.


Stop calling people stupid, telling them that they don't know the law and demanding that they do your homework for you.

Now go stand in the corner until you have learned how to play nice.

reply to post by Pervius


Taser International
Taser - Studies on the affects of a Taser on the human body

Further Evidence - Raw Cardiac Effects Studies with Links:

Human cardiovascular effects of a new generation conducted electrical weapon.

This was a prospective study of human subjects during NGCEW training courses. Subjects received a NGCEW probe deployment to the frontal torso in 1 of 3 configurations: 2, 3,or 4 embedded probes and then underwent a 10-s exposure. Before and after vital signs, electrocardiograms (ECGs), and serum troponin I values were obtained. Real-time echocardiography was utilized before, during and after the exposure to evaluate heart rate and rhythm.

Read More

Echocardiographic evaluation of TASER X26™ probe deployment into the chests of human volunteers.

Several animal studies have shown that the TASER X26 (TASER International, Scottsdale, Ariz) conducted electrical weapon can electrically capture the myocardium when discharged on the thorax. These results have not been reproduced in human echocardiographic studies.

Read More

Physiologic Effects of the TASER After Exercise

Incidents of sudden death following TASER exposure are poorly studied, and substantive links between TASER exposure and sudden death are minimal. The authors studied the effects of a single TASER exposure on markers of physiologic stress in humans.

Read More

Presenting rhythm in sudden deaths temporally proximate to discharge of TASER conducted electrical weapons.

Records for 200 cases were received. The presenting rhythm was reported for 56 of 118 subjects who collapsed within 15 minutes (47%). The rhythm was VF in four subjects (7%; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 3% to 17%) and bradycardia-asystole or PEA in 52 subjects (93%; 95% CI = 83% to 97%).

Read More

Absence of electrocardiographic change after prolonged application of a conducted electrical weapon in physically exhausted adults.

Conducted electrical weapons (CEWs) are used by law enforcement for control of subjects by causing neuromuscular incapacitation. There has been scrutiny of CEWs and their potential role in the occasional sudden death of subjects in custody.

Read More

Additional scientific / medical studies

If you can do me a favor and post your sources about heart attacks and strokes resulting from being hit by a deployed taser.

reply to post by VforVendettea


The jack booted thug line was placed there because people like you, who dont bother to find ALL the facts, decide to just name call and stereotype me / all law enforcement. Ironically you just did to me what you accuse me of doing to others sooo pot meet kettle.

Do you have anything constructive to add to the thread? Since you apparently think I am wrong, feel free to post your sources rebutting what I have stated. If you can't then maybe you should do your own homework?

The motto for the site is deny ignorance, not embrace it.

reply to post by Pervius


He did not get tased for having his dog off the leash.

He was tased because he opted to ignore the officer and attempted to leave the scene.