Australia's Military Alliance With United States Must End.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
reply to post by theubermensch

 

And America was the initiator in every one of these conflicts?

You invaded them.

I've often thought that the real reason why the Australian Government keeps the alliance with America is because of the $$$$ we save in military spending.
By keeping our potential enemies at bay knowing that America will come to our rescue if anyone makes a move by being our greatest Ally. Having powerful friends and allies means a lot in Politics.
If we were to cut our strategic ties with America we would have to spend billions on our Military Budget. Australia also wouldn't be economically thriving like we are now if the budget was Defense heavy.
If you think the hospital waiting lists are long now or Education and Infrastructure is falling apart, see what Oz would look like if every spare penny had to go in Defense. Our standard of living would drop almost instantly.

This obvious truth wouldn't be politically popular to mention. Which is the reason why Politicians steer clear of saying it. IMO. But keeping the Alliance alive makes sense from an economical standpoint.

reply to post by Flighty


Australia has the capacity to defend itself.
Only 0.5% of the Australian landmass has been surveyed for mineral deposits, and less than 0.2% of our Territorial waters have been surveyed and seeming as what little land they have explored it seems Australia is full of riches, meaning we have a golden future ahead of us.

As for our military, most experts agree that we only need a strong naval force and air force to deter any enemies. A land army such as tanks, heavy artillery etc is not neccesary for Australia as we only need to keep enemies at bay via air and sea.

America should pull back out of the Pacific and let those places that today don't like us.....

Enjoy life under Chinese rule for awhile.

3-4 years or so. Then we'll come back in and save the 5 or 6 people who haven't been ground up into dogfood yet.


Australia has enjoyed life on the hog.........while Americans have been suffering hell.....to pay for a military to protect idiots that don't appreciate it.

Who'd like to see Australia under Chinese rule for a few years? They'd kill you all and export you to the world as dog food.

Originally posted by Flighty
I've often thought that the real reason why the Australian Government keeps the alliance with America is because of the $$$$ we save in military spending.
By keeping our potential enemies at bay knowing that America will come to our rescue if anyone makes a move by being our greatest Ally. Having powerful friends and allies means a lot in Politics.
If we were to cut our strategic ties with America we would have to spend billions on our Military Budget. Australia also wouldn't be economically thriving like we are now if the budget was Defense heavy.
If you think the hospital waiting lists are long now or Education and Infrastructure is falling apart, see what Oz would look like if every spare penny had to go in Defense. Our standard of living would drop almost instantly.

This obvious truth wouldn't be politically popular to mention. Which is the reason why Politicians steer clear of saying it. IMO. But keeping the Alliance alive makes sense from an economical standpoint.

I think we should play it more like a game of Tropico if they are to make us choose. Walk the tightrope. I dont see why we cant be friends with both.

I dont see the sense in having a military and wasting money on a standing Army in times of peace. I dont see the sense in living in fear. Its all the result of Imperialism.

I think we should slash the budget and use the 'troops' to improve our own infrastructure and do constructive things of real value to the taxpayer that pays for them.

The Military is a massive waste of money with low productivity.

I think we would be fine slashing the budget and focusing on more diplomacy. I dont think the Military or our Alliances mean as much as you. I would concede that if you dont do what you are told you can be shut out like Cuba,North Korea,Iran and others that are not a part of the Imperial Empire.

reply to post by Jace26

The reason Australia has been standing so "Steadfastedly" with the USA, is because we are constantly told by our government that we will never stand a chance on our own in a war so we need to suck up to America as a insurance policy which includes participating in their wars.

OK. I think Bangladesh too contributed some troops to the Iraq invasion of 2003. I suppose the same logic, sucking up to, applies there.

"If the USA needed to do nothing to retain this "friendship" until now, why should they do anything now? And if they do need to do something now to retain this "friendship", what would that be?"

Where did that come from?

It came from this

So therefore we have been the greatest allies to you, we don't ask for money, we don't ask for glory(not that we are ever mentioned anyway), we don't ask for weapons or nukes or anything. Pretty good friends if you ask me, you should hang on to them since you don't have many these days.

which says that Australia asked for nothing, got nothing, but advises the USA to "hang on to them". What would the US need to do specially to "hang on to them"?

Not belittle or insult them? Or something else?

reply to post by theubermensch


Most of these are Cold War conflicts with the Soviets mainly. While bashing America on these covert and sometimes not so covert actions everyone gives the Soviets a pass for their little forays. And I am not gonna say America was in the right in each of these cases, but during the Cold War things were not always as simple as they seem.

Also some of those listed are UN actions, where America is coming to the defense of those who have been attacked.

Also what exactly constitutes an Invasion, and what territorial gains has America made since WW II due to these Invasions.

Originally posted by Pervius
America should pull back out of the Pacific and let those places that today don't like us.....

Enjoy life under Chinese rule for awhile.

3-4 years or so. Then we'll come back in and save the 5 or 6 people who haven't been ground up into dogfood yet.


Australia has enjoyed life on the hog.........while Americans have been suffering hell.....to pay for a military to protect idiots that don't appreciate it.

Who'd like to see Australia under Chinese rule for a few years? They'd kill you all and export you to the world as dog food.

With comments like those no wonder most people do not like Americans.

You have invaded country after country and killed millions and yet you have the tenacity to say "Americans are suffering hell?"
While you ignore the fact that Australia has its own military and has more than enough to defend itself. So those Australians that have died fighting in your wars are nothing to you? Do you appreciate their sacrifice or even know they fought?

An invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq, yeah I think everyone can agree that wasn't protecting us, in fact I think its done the opposite, we've just created more enemies.

Originally posted by Pervius
America should pull back out of the Pacific and let those places that today don't like us.....

Enjoy life under Chinese rule for awhile.

3-4 years or so. Then we'll come back in and save the 5 or 6 people who haven't been ground up into dogfood yet.


Australia has enjoyed life on the hog.........while Americans have been suffering hell.....to pay for a military to protect idiots that don't appreciate it.

Who'd like to see Australia under Chinese rule for a few years? They'd kill you all and export you to the world as dog food.

I dont see why we have to be under anybodys "rule: but it seems you acknowledge that we are under your "rule". Well guess what? You are not our rulers. We dont need you. You need us.

You are a sinking ship. You need help.

Given the headline and overall thread here, I have one general sentiment here, and it's fairly mild compared to some.

I'm awfully glad some Australians I see here didn't have power back in 1940/41 to talk appeasement with Imperial Japan instead of us yanks up here. Australia would have ceased to exist in many ways..until we could have liberated that nation too at some point...a few years under Japanese occupation. Ask China how that one worked out for them. The Japanese were such great occupiers.

If anyone down there thinks being a client and subordinate to China (They don't HAVE allies in the sense Western nations do) is better than being a continued Ally to the United States, then so be it. Nothing that happens in Australia is likely to have direct strategic effect on us anyway, and the peoples of both nations will never be enemies, regardless. I'll be just as happy to see ALL aid cut, to the last dollar, if Australia would like that to happen. Call me a Ron Paul supporter, but I don't see the need for any of it anyway.

Careful what you all wish for though...you may just get it. Learning Mandarin may be a real good idea......MUCH SOONER than later...if you're leaders also talk like this about cutting alliances with the United States.

Originally posted by Observor
reply to post by Jace26

 

The reason Australia has been standing so "Steadfastedly" with the USA, is because we are constantly told by our government that we will never stand a chance on our own in a war so we need to suck up to America as a insurance policy which includes participating in their wars.

OK. I think Bangladesh too contributed some troops to the Iraq invasion of 2003. I suppose the same logic, sucking up to, applies there.

"If the USA needed to do nothing to retain this "friendship" until now, why should they do anything now? And if they do need to do something now to retain this "friendship", what would that be?"

Where did that come from?

It came from this

So therefore we have been the greatest allies to you, we don't ask for money, we don't ask for glory(not that we are ever mentioned anyway), we don't ask for weapons or nukes or anything. Pretty good friends if you ask me, you should hang on to them since you don't have many these days.

which says that Australia asked for nothing, got nothing, but advises the USA to "hang on to them". What would the US need to do specially to "hang on to them"?

Not belittle or insult them? Or something else?

Firstly, Bangladesh has a much larger population than Australia and is less attractive to invade. Which is the reason our government sucks up to America.

Yes, our government advises the US to remain within our geographic area, but now that the world is moving to the Asia/Oceania region we no longer need to try to keep them active within this region, because it is in American interests to be where it is most important.
Basically it means America now needs to ensure it appreciates Australia as an ally AKA suck up to Australia for once.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
reply to post by theubermensch

 

Most of these are Cold War conflicts with the Soviets mainly. While bashing America on these covert and sometimes not so covert actions everyone gives the Soviets a pass for their little forays. And I am not gonna say America was in the right in each of these cases, but during the Cold War things were not always as simple as they seem.

Also some of those listed are UN actions, where America is coming to the defense of those who have been attacked.

Also what exactly constitutes an Invasion, and what territorial gains has America made since WW II due to these Invasions.

Its all about assests and expanding the Imperial Empire. You guys dont have allies so much as assests. And the elites that run your military have no sovereignty. Its more about corporations getting contracts and exploiting countries than any territorial gains.

Its also about pacifying governments that dont play by the rules.

And this list is only the military invasions. Another tool of America is the IMF mafia. The UN, NATO.....CIA

There is a reason you guys pay the most for these things.

Vote Ron Paul. He is onto the IMF scam. He is against Imperialism.I think an invasion is when you send troops to a country or meddle with another countries government. And I know Russia isnt perfect but America has done a great job to make them look good.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You make it sound as though Australia will collapse and be invaded without America as an ally.
Well let me give you an example, during the years Americas national interest was in Asia, it saw some of the greatest conflicts of the 20th century occur.
What happened after the Americans largely left in 1975?
The Asian region became largely peaceful with much economic prosperity, good diplomatic ties and so on.
Americas recent announcent that it is returning to this region CANNOT be good news, it should stay away.

reply to post by Pervius

Who'd like to see Australia under Chinese rule for a few years? They'd kill you all and export you to the world as dog food.

That's horrible! Not that Australia is new to outsiders coming and finishing off those that are already there, but exporting them as dog food is horrible and very inconsiderate to the dogs

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

TextCall me a Ron Paul supporter, but I don't see the need for any of it anyway.

www.la.org.au...

Nothing wrong with supporting Ron Paul. He is right about the IMF mafia.

Originally posted by Observor
reply to post by Pervius

 

Who'd like to see Australia under Chinese rule for a few years? They'd kill you all and export you to the world as dog food.

That's horrible! Not that Australia is new to outsiders coming and finishing off those that are already there, but exporting them as dog food is horrible and very inconsiderate to the dogs

Ha! The Aboriginals are still here. And that was the Red Coats not Australia. Like 200 plus years ago.

But thats real nice saying we would make bad dog food

reply to post by Observor


20,000 Australian Indigenous killed in a period of 150 years

13 million Russians killed in 6 years.

Oh yeah we really "finished" them off didn't we?

reply to post by theubermensch



I think the world is mainly unaware of what the Soviets and Chinese did, and its more in vogue to bash or blame America for everything. Cleaning up after the Cold war has bankrupted America. The Iraq War and The Afghanistan War have not done anything for America. America definitely is not gaining anything from them. International Banks and Mega Corporations are. If America went into Iraq for oil as is claimed , then the American the people are getting the shaft big time because we have not seen any of this oil windfall.

Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

You make it sound as though Australia will collapse and be invaded without America as an ally.

Americas recent announcent that it is returning to this region CANNOT be good news, it should stay away.

On the first point, no... Australia won't collapse. It's no 3rd world nation to be sure..and it's the equal of the United States in key measures..if not sheer numbers in population and all that carries with it.

However.......Australia has been side by side to the United States for 70 years. You have fought who we have fought. Our enemies have become your enemies. In fact, Australian pilots have been legendary for not just fighting with Americans in our wars, but showing more bravery and skill in some cases than American counterparts. I'm thinking about the Bush pilots of Vietnam as much as any...but Australia has been killing Taliban and Iraqi's alike, right along side us, all this time.

Now....again, I'd be happy to pull everything out, leave Australia to Australians and put the savings into rebuilding our own nation. Goodness knows it needs it...and we will never be successfully invaded or lose a war on our soil without the world going up in flames with us.

Australia.....on the other hand.....remember that 'our enemies are your enemies' part when wishing to face the world completely alone. Being alone can be a bad thing when the neighborhood is full of vicious predators and few of them will just forgive and forget just because Washington isn't on your speed dial for help.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
reply to post by theubermensch

 

I think the world is mainly unaware of what the Soviets and Chinese did, and its more in vogue to bash or blame America for everything. Cleaning up after the Cold war has bankrupted America. The Iraq War and The Afghanistan War have not done anything for America. America definitely is not gaining anything from them. International Banks and Mega Corporations are. If America went into Iraq for oil as is claimed , then the American the people are getting the shaft big time because we have not seen any of this oil windfall.

They went to Iraq because Saddam was going to sell his oil in the Euro. It was about the threat to the Reserve Currency status that you wrongfully still have. The oil needs to be bought in US dollars for you to have the right to continue printing the worthless paper you call US dollars.