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Originally posted by Jace26
Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
I am gonna step in this thread as an American for a bit.
From my point of view I would very much like for out allies to have aircraft carriers especially the Commonwealth countries as it would take a lot of the pressure off our military and economy. To be fair Commonwealth countries are our only true allies and the only ones that do anything substantial.
I do not get all the America hate from the Australian side though, I get the fact you do not like being seen as doing the bidding of America and I do not feel that your guys should be sent into harms way if your people do not want that, personally I do not want our guys in a lot of they places they are involved in either.
I do not get the deal where the Americans did not do anything in the Pacific theatre of WW II. Americans were on New Guinea in February of 1942 and 7000 Americans died fighting on that Island in support of Australia.
Currently there are plans to have a base on Australia with 2,500 marines stationed there. Probably be good for the local economy with jobs and what not as The American government will spend a bit of money there, and 2,500 marines are not gonna occupy Australia.
Look at it from our perspective. We fight in your wars, make ourselves enemies where we shouldn't have any, and are never mentioned by any American for our role.
For about 2 years at the beginning of WW2, the Australian navy was effectively representing the entire allied force of the Pacific, fighting against the Japanese on their own.
The battles of Buna, Gona, Sanananda were all considered to be great AMERICAN victories despite ignoring Australians doing most of the fighting. Americans were even reported to have cowered in the grass while the Australians charged.
Macarthur is deemed to be a great American general, oh please, from our perspective he is a failure and a coward. Fleeing the Philipines with thousands of American dead before coming here and declaring our troops (who were little equipped compared to the Americans) cowards. It was Australians who defeated Japan and were the first to not only halt their advance but turn them back.
While Americans continue to make movies about how they saved the south pacific nations and how proud they should be.
7000 did not die defending Australia, as the "Battle for Australia" had already been won. They died for American national interests, and as your policies go, it says any nation that may be a threat to Americas economic, or military superiority is a threat. Which includes Australia, I'm more worried about America declaring we're housing terrorists and attacking us than the Chinese.
Originally posted by Jace26
Macarthur is deemed to be a great American general, oh please, from our perspective he is a failure and a coward.
Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by daaskapital
Absolutely disgraceful that they claimed him as an American. Yet they continue to make propaganda movies claiming how they saved Australia and other nations, which is absolute bull#.
Their latest piece of propaganda was the series "The Pacific" in which it showed NO Australians at all, and merely labeled them as "All off fighting in North Africa". Which is completely historically wrong.
Australians were fighting in North Africa in the earliest stages of the war but once the "Battle for Australia" had begun they were pretty much evacuated home to defend.
Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
I do not want you guys feeling like the 53rd state that is for certain. I get a bit irritated with some Australian views of the battles on New Guinea because my grandfather fought there and was badly wounded, so I get a little touchy when I am told America did not contribute there.
I will not disagree with your views on Mac Arthur though I think his conduct was disgraceful in the Philippines and his award of the Medal of Honor was a crock of #. Truth is since his father had been awarded the Medal of Honor during the American Civil War and America needed some kind of hero in the beginning of the war is the only reason he was awarded the thing. The heroes of the Philippines were they guys he left behind to die.
As things are today America is damned no matter what we do, intervene and we are invading and being Nazi like, do nothing and we are not being responsible.
Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by daaskapital
Im not being Anti-American but the total rubbish that is churned out of American cinamas just to give them a "good feeling" that they saved our nation is not only historically wrong but propaganda to say the least.
If Americans want us to fight in their wars, then at least have the common courtesy to acknowledge we were even there!!
Wow a LOT of arrogance in that post right there.
Americas greatest ally over the past 70 years has been Australia not Britain, remember Britain never helped you during the Vietnam war.
Australia has fought for America in EVERY conflict YOU started since WW2. How many conflicts has Australia started that America fought in? Hmm let me think, ZERO!!!
So therefore we have been the greatest allies to you, we don't ask for money, we don't ask for glory(not that we are ever mentioned anyway), we don't ask for weapons or nukes or anything. Pretty good friends if you ask me, you should hang on to them since you don't have many these days.
Originally posted by Observor
reply to post by Jace26
Wow a LOT of arrogance in that post right there.
Americas greatest ally over the past 70 years has been Australia not Britain, remember Britain never helped you during the Vietnam war.
Australia has fought for America in EVERY conflict YOU started since WW2. How many conflicts has Australia started that America fought in? Hmm let me think, ZERO!!!
So therefore we have been the greatest allies to you, we don't ask for money, we don't ask for glory(not that we are ever mentioned anyway), we don't ask for weapons or nukes or anything. Pretty good friends if you ask me, you should hang on to them since you don't have many these days.
Wow! I am not disputing any of what you are saying, but wonder why Australia has been standing so steadfastly by the USA?
Is it because Australia believes in the "cause" of every war aggression US launched since WWII? Or they just suspended any independent thought and followed their friend, more like man's best friend?
If the USA needed to do nothing to retain this "friendship" until now, why should they do anything now? And if they do need to do something now to retain this "friendship", what would that be?
Originally posted by Observor
reply to post by Jace26
Wow a LOT of arrogance in that post right there.
Americas greatest ally over the past 70 years has been Australia not Britain, remember Britain never helped you during the Vietnam war.
Australia has fought for America in EVERY conflict YOU started since WW2. How many conflicts has Australia started that America fought in? Hmm let me think, ZERO!!!
So therefore we have been the greatest allies to you, we don't ask for money, we don't ask for glory(not that we are ever mentioned anyway), we don't ask for weapons or nukes or anything. Pretty good friends if you ask me, you should hang on to them since you don't have many these days.
Wow! I am not disputing any of what you are saying, but wonder why Australia has been standing so steadfastly by the USA?
Is it because Australia believes in the "cause" of every war aggression US launched since WWII? Or they just suspended any independent thought and followed their friend, more like man's best friend?
If the USA needed to do nothing to retain this "friendship" until now, why should they do anything now? And if they do need to do something now to retain this "friendship", what would that be?
Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Other than Iraq and Afghanistan which wars of Aggression has America launched since WW II?
Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Other than Iraq and Afghanistan which wars of Aggression has America launched since WW II?
Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
You think the Soviets and the Chinese did not have their own Cold War covert actions overthrows and what not.
America have not been angels but neither was the other side in this deal , strangely though only America is ever held to account.