Australia's Military Alliance With United States Must End.

Originally posted by 29INFDIV
reply to post by theubermensch

 

I tell you what. When Aussies are in trouble, I'll sit back from my Aircraft Carrier and drink the last few Foster's there are and watch the smoke rise. That a good plan for you? Or just maybe we won't share intelligence that your government has been infiltrated, after all historically Australia was a penal colony. I am sure more Aussies don't feel the way you do.

29INFDIV

I think you are right. Most Aussies wouldnt dream of not blindly following America. People like you help though. Thanks hey. We dont drink Fosters here. We just sell that crap to you. We drink VB or Tooheys

Originally posted by SheopleNation

Originally posted by daaskapital
Why not allow Australia to build some Aircraft Carriers? That would balance the power in the Pacific considering Australia is one of the major players (with China).

I don't know my friend, why don't you ask your beloved leaders over there why you don't build any Aircraft carriers?

Answer = Why build them when you know we will spend money and spill our own blood in order to defend you?

So there yuh have it.

You arrogance is enough to see that an invasion is possible.

What?

~SheopleNation

Americans spilling their blood to defend us?!?
No my friend, it has been the other way around. Australians have been spilling blood first for the English, and now for the Americans, fighting in their wars.

America has not once defended Australia, but Australia has come to the "defense" of America numerous times, the latest being 9/11(inside-job).

Originally posted by Jace26
reply to post by theubermensch

 

Also did no one else find it strange that Obama visits Australia and just a week or two later Gillard comes out saying we will now start selling uranium to India.
As we all know, USA and India have close ties. So this is just another example of our gutless politicians worshipping the Americans.

I almost vomited when I saw them all in parliment falling over themselves cheering for Obama. Treating him like some kind of god. They are pathetic.

Originally posted by SheopleNation

Originally posted by theubermensch
Like the Japanese Imperial Headquaters said - "impossible"
en.wikipedia.org...

That's a large page.

How about you quote whatever your point is, then I can follow the link and we can then discuss exactly what your point was?

I Gotta warn you though, I was waiting for this. There were plans for a Japanese invasion of Australia, Plain and simple. When and if you make your point, I will retort with a historical accurate response.

SheopleNation

edit on 30-1-2012 by SheopleNation because: TypO

TextThe rapid Allied defeat in the Pacific caused many Australians to fear that the Japanese would invade the Australian mainland. While elements of the Imperial Japanese Navy proposed this in early 1942, it was judged to be impossible by the Japanese Imperial General Headquarters, which instead adopted a strategy of isolating Australia from the United States by capturing New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, Fiji, Samoa, and New Caledonia.

The Japanese knew it was impossible to invade us.

Australia is not a part of Asia nor should it ever be.

Its a continent nation for itself. Yes, trade with Asia and whoever else you want but I loathe th4e notion people express in the media saying Australia is a part of Asia...its like they are trying to get the public used to the idea.

I dont like some of the USA's foreign policies like many others but I would sure prefer the yank troops being on Aussie soil rather than the Chinese.
The Chinese are a major threat to Australia. As previously mentioned their spies are very active in Australia aqnd has been reported many times over the past few years.

Ideally, I would love to see Australia as a "Fortress Australia"....self sufficient in defence.

I know this aint worth much but I heard from an ex army person several years ago who quoted to me not to be concerned about needing the Yanks to protect us as we have high tech weaponary that would annhialate any potential aggressor...any serious aggressor to the mainland.

I dont know what this may be, if true at all, but it wouldnt surprise me if there was something. It'd be stupid for Australia to have to rely or wait for allies to come to her defence in a SHTF scenario.

We have the benefit of distance/remoteness....we have Malaysia/Indonesia as a buffer. Supply routes for an Australian Invasion would be huge and costly to maintain.

Fortress Australia for me personally...dont rely on anyone!

reply to post by theubermensch

I'm deadly serious about the following.

When I lived in China . . . a diversity of well connected sources

insisted

quite soberly, seriously and emphatically

that China would conquer Australia and use the vast land for her vast amount of people . . . implying that the Australian people would be done away with.

Certainly that is the Chinese mentality.

They see this as the "Chinese Century" indeed, the "Chinese Millenium" and

China's TURN to rule the world.

Of course, we know Biblically that China will be under the Anti-Christ to some degree for some period of time.

However, I think that China will be one of the restive Nations under the Anti-Christ that's not always compliant and fights even with him during some periods of the 3.5-7 years of the Great Tribulation.

They anticipate using advanced technology to desalinate water and make Australia's desert bloom for the Chinese people.

Australians are foolish to not take such a threat very very seriously.

reply to post by theubermensch


Not only that but the "Battle for Australia" had been largely won by the time the Americans started arriving, pertaining to the myth that they somehow saved us?!?

This includes the NZers who say America saved NZ from invasion, another myth. Australia in reality saved NZ because if Australia was lost (unlikely) then NZ would of fell quickly after since the majority of its forces were fighting in Europe.

Australians were the first to defeat the Japanese in battle in over 400 years, as well as inflicting the first Japanese defeat of WW2.

Originally posted by theubermensch
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

TextPlus without U.S. Military protection...Aussies could very well find themselves being a Chinese province.

Its possible.But China has never threatened us. And I think the Japanese could have defeated or tiny Navy but I dont think they could have beat us and taken the country in WW2 even without your help.

I think Australia can and should stand alone.

I agree that Australia has the capacity to stand on it's own...but not the will. Split Infinity

reply to post by Jace26

TextAustralians were the first to defeat the Japanese in battle in over 400 years, as well as inflicting the first Japanese defeat of WW2.

Aussie Aussie Aussie!

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I agree too unfortunately.

I think public opinion is changing though.

Originally posted by daaskapital
reply to post by Thurisaz

 

Please don't come out with the American elitist crap...please! China is very much a rising superpower, as well as India. You are in denial if you can't see that. Obama is # scared, remember, the bill he tried to pass punishing China for their great economical power? Yeah, China is rising. The Aussie intelligence agencies who released a report the other day suggested that Australia get ready for an Asian century.

I totally agree with the "american elitist crap"...since ww2 when has "the greatest military force the world has ever seen" won a war ? I think there will be a HUGE wake up call when someone who can fight back gets pissed.
Unfortunately I think they are getting very close to taking that step too far.... just like Hitler did with Poland, obviously the lessons of the lead up to WW2 have been forgotten...f*cked up economy totally dependant on defense (offense?) spending, invading everyone and anyone they feel like....til one day someone says enough is enough, then its the end of the 4th reic....ooops US interfering in whats basically none of their business

Originally posted by pavil
You Aussies are free to choose who you think your friends are, it's your right. However, know this, America would aid you whenever and with whatever should you ever need it. It's not even because it would be in our best self interest, it's that we would do what's right. We actually like you. We share common traits with each other that we are like cousins. If you think the Chinese feel the same way about you, then have at it and good luck. I don't think the Chinese see you as equals, we pretty much do. There are few places around the globe where Americans would rather be than in America, I think Australia and New Zealand are two of those places.

But hey, none of that matters much now......does it?

I like America.And I want to like America. Ive grown up with your pop-culture.Australia is kinda like an extra state of America that has no voting rights. I just hope you guys can vote for Ron Paul if you are not going to revolt because I think you guys are the cause. Imperialism is bad. Upward mobility is bs. America is the centre of the Death Star. The public has a responsibility and an obligation to keep your leaders in check. Your country dominates the world through force and intimidation.

Originally posted by SheopleNation

Originally posted by daaskapital

You just don't get it do yuh misled Lad? Listen to me, and listen to me good. Our greatest Ally has been Britain, and that's a fact jack. You see, you got it all backwards. We (The USA) have been YOUR greatest ally for the last 70 years, and actually alot longer than that if you study the history. Keep swimming if you like, but you're at a loss my friend, and I am here to make you reconsider your position.

~SheopleNation

Wow a LOT of arrogance in that post right there.
Americas greatest ally over the past 70 years has been Australia not Britain, remember Britain never helped you during the Vietnam war.
Australia has fought for America in EVERY conflict YOU started since WW2. How many conflicts has Australia started that America fought in? Hmm let me think, ZERO!!!
So therefore we have been the greatest allies to you, we don't ask for money, we don't ask for glory(not that we are ever mentioned anyway), we don't ask for weapons or nukes or anything. Pretty good friends if you ask me, you should hang on to them since you don't have many these days.

I am gonna step in this thread as an American for a bit.

From my point of view I would very much like for out allies to have aircraft carriers especially the Commonwealth countries as it would take a lot of the pressure off our military and economy. To be fair Commonwealth countries are our only true allies and the only ones that do anything substantial.

I do not get all the America hate from the Australian side though, I get the fact you do not like being seen as doing the bidding of America and I do not feel that your guys should be sent into harms way if your people do not want that, personally I do not want our guys in a lot of they places they are involved in either.

I do not get the deal where the Americans did not do anything in the Pacific theatre of WW II. Americans were on New Guinea in February of 1942 and 7000 Americans died fighting on that Island in support of Australia.

Currently there are plans to have a base on Australia with 2,500 marines stationed there. Probably be good for the local economy with jobs and what not as The American government will spend a bit of money there, and 2,500 marines are not gonna occupy Australia.

Originally posted by 29INFDIV
reply to post by theubermensch

 

I tell you what. When Aussies are in trouble, I'll sit back from my Aircraft Carrier and drink the last few Foster's there are and watch the smoke rise. That a good plan for you?

Not all of us care about your threats. Americans attempting to use fear as a means of coercing other countries to toe the line, is a standard strategy. In Australia's case, the threat of the Indonesian hordes invading us has been the stick of choice.

I personally feel that the ANZUS treaty needs to be ripped up and flushed down the toilet; but contrary to what you might think, that isn't because I hate Americans in general terms. It is because the American government specifically, is currently headed over the edge of a cliff, politically and economically, and some of us would prefer it if Australia didn't go with it.

You might threaten us with the Indonesians; but given what is most likely about to happen to America itself, the Indonesians probably wouldn't be all that bad by comparison.

I agree that we should stay neutral but if it comes down to it, we have more culturally in common with America than China. It's not always just about $$$$ in the long term. China is a very insular monoculture whereas , Australia like America, have a mixed cultural population.
So when it comes to long term cultural survival, I'll side with America anyday.
America won't be down for long of that you can be sure.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
I am gonna step in this thread as an American for a bit.

From my point of view I would very much like for out allies to have aircraft carriers especially the Commonwealth countries as it would take a lot of the pressure off our military and economy. To be fair Commonwealth countries are our only true allies and the only ones that do anything substantial.

I do not get all the America hate from the Australian side though, I get the fact you do not like being seen as doing the bidding of America and I do not feel that your guys should be sent into harms way if your people do not want that, personally I do not want our guys in a lot of they places they are involved in either.

I do not get the deal where the Americans did not do anything in the Pacific theatre of WW II. Americans were on New Guinea in February of 1942 and 7000 Americans died fighting on that Island in support of Australia.

Currently there are plans to have a base on Australia with 2,500 marines stationed there. Probably be good for the local economy with jobs and what not as The American government will spend a bit of money there, and 2,500 marines are not gonna occupy Australia.

I don't know why when someone starts a thread saying that Australia should pursure relationships with China, that all the Americans hop on and claim it is an American hating thread. I fail to see how it is a hating thread towards the USA. It's just stating the facts, that Australia does need to have relationships with China and other countries, it can not just rely on America. The USA came to Australia's aid in New Guinea after we pushed back the Japanese. You's came at the end of the battle.

The Kokoda campaign alone consisted of -
Approximately 625 Australians were killed along the Kokoda Trail and over 1,600 were wounded. Casualties due to sickness exceeded 4,000.

While I fully admit the faults of America, when you look at what sort of treatment happens to people in countries that are client states of China, I think I understand why the Australian government (along with diverse nations such as Vietnam, Myanmar, Thailand, South Korea, the Philippines, and Japan) ask for American engagement in the area.

Do they want American dominance? Probably not. But having American might as a counterbalance to Chinese ambition is a path all these countries can walk down with neutrality and relative independence.

America has serious debt problems. But for all the complaining, our social cohesion is good. China has a rapidly industrializing middle class, a repressive state regime, an export driven economy, and faces many challenges. They're one protest away from being the 1990 Soviet Union.

Will they be a great power? Sure. But their day isn't here yet, and is by no means certain.

As far as Australia goes, I am an American who has friends from there and like the people, and think of them as good friends to our people, as is the case with most Commonwealth countries. I think we share the same annoyances with our governments from time to time, but I hope those differences aren't so vast these days where most people there would feel such an alliance lessens them. For better or worse, the English speaking world has usually been as one.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
I do not get all the America hate from the Australian side though, I get the fact you do not like being seen as doing the bidding of America and I do not feel that your guys should be sent into harms way if your people do not want that, personally I do not want our guys in a lot of they places they are involved in either.

We don't like being the de facto 53rd state, (after Britain and Iraq) which in all honesty is what we are. Australia has no independent sovereignty in practical terms. We are not an American territory in name, no; but in terms of the way our government behaves, and the American troops who are stationed here now, we are in practice.

Mind you, it isn't really all that inappropriate in cultural terms. Australia and America have a lot in common, in that sense. Most Australians, sadly, are drunken, violent, racist, deliberately and proudly anti-intellectual people. We also share the worst social index in a number of areas (public education and rates of drug abuse, among others, as well as general levels of equality) on the planet.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
I am gonna step in this thread as an American for a bit.

From my point of view I would very much like for out allies to have aircraft carriers especially the Commonwealth countries as it would take a lot of the pressure off our military and economy. To be fair Commonwealth countries are our only true allies and the only ones that do anything substantial.

I do not get all the America hate from the Australian side though, I get the fact you do not like being seen as doing the bidding of America and I do not feel that your guys should be sent into harms way if your people do not want that, personally I do not want our guys in a lot of they places they are involved in either.

I do not get the deal where the Americans did not do anything in the Pacific theatre of WW II. Americans were on New Guinea in February of 1942 and 7000 Americans died fighting on that Island in support of Australia.

Currently there are plans to have a base on Australia with 2,500 marines stationed there. Probably be good for the local economy with jobs and what not as The American government will spend a bit of money there, and 2,500 marines are not gonna occupy Australia.

Look at it from our perspective. We fight in your wars, make ourselves enemies where we shouldn't have any, and are never mentioned by any American for our role.
For about 2 years at the beginning of WW2, the Australian navy was effectively representing the entire allied force of the Pacific, fighting against the Japanese on their own.
The battles of Buna, Gona, Sanananda were all considered to be great AMERICAN victories despite ignoring Australians doing most of the fighting. Americans were even reported to have cowered in the grass while the Australians charged.
Macarthur is deemed to be a great American general, oh please, from our perspective he is a failure and a coward. Fleeing the Philipines with thousands of American dead before coming here and declaring our troops (who were little equipped compared to the Americans) cowards. It was Australians who defeated Japan and were the first to not only halt their advance but turn them back.
While Americans continue to make movies about how they saved the south pacific nations and how proud they should be.

7000 did not die defending Australia, as the "Battle for Australia" had already been won. They died for American national interests, and as your policies go, it says any nation that may be a threat to Americas economic, or military superiority is a threat. Which includes Australia, I'm more worried about America declaring we're housing terrorists and attacking us than the Chinese.