Your Views On 'Smacking' children.

A lot of the against-spanking crowd seem to share a misconception: that the purpose of spanking is to cause harm or pain to the child being spanked. NOT TRUE!!! I am very much pro-spanking. I was spanked as a child and I THANK my father for doing so. If not for his discipline and guidance, I would have been a rotten person. I have no doubt about that, because, in hind sight, I was a rotten child! I admit it freely. Not because that is what my father wants me to believe... I look back and I am embarrassed by the stuff I tried to get away with. But, my negative actions begat negative reaction... and I learned from it!

Now, I find myself a father of 3 beautiful, but sometimes wayward, children. When my children do something that deserves correction, I do so verbally. If that doesn't work, I take something away from them that is important to them (ie. grounding from going to a friend's house for a few days). If THAT doesn't work, spankings are in order. My eldest child is now 13... and VERY well adjusted. By well adjusted I don't mean a mind zombie. Contrary, she is a very free spirit and more creative than I could ever dream of being. A VERY beautiful child, inside and out. She still does stuff that deserves a "what were you thinking?!?" - after all, she is a teenager - but, she is clear about what the boundaries are. My 11-year-old has never done anything to warrant spankings - I have never had to spank her. My 8-year-old has been spanked once - just about a week ago. She is ADHD and has an anxiety disorder that has been passed around my wife's side of the family for generations. These issues cause frequent terrible behavior, but these behaviors have been well controlled using diversion tactics (turning her attention away from her anxiety to something constructive, such as games, puzzles, art projects, etc.) as well as medication.

Does spanking your child make you the devil? Not even close. Just as long as you understand the basics: spanking is a discipline tactic - not something you do to cause your child pain; spanking is ALWAYS a last resort; and spanking should NEVER be done out of anger. If you are angry at your child, YOU need to take a walk and divert your attention before you do something you will come to regret.

Spank your children - they will love you for it... eventually.

Originally posted by mblahnikluver
reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

 

My mom spanked and used a spoon when I crossed her. It wasn't often but I had a mouth and pushed boundaries at times. I see nothing wrong with spanking, as long as it's not over done to abuse.

Kids today aren't disciplined, they are spoiled and catered to. They need to be knocked down a few pegs if you ask me. They need to learn respect.

well said mate pretty sure this is the opinion of most in this topic apart from the "Its abuse call the police" people.

The people that made this no spanking law in britain are the people who's children are growing up with lots of money and things to do to occupy there time where as the people in most cases grow up in bad areas kids get into bother sometimes and therefor need a good smack to keep them in check.

I would have went off the rails if it wasnt for my mum who gave me a smack when i deserved it back in the day

I did "smack" my children but only when they were too young to reason with and only with my bare hand on their bottom. Just once to enforce the point. I also only spanked when they did something that put themselves or someone else in danger. I never hit them out of anger or frustration and always did my best to fully explain to them why I did it. Once you can reason with a child and they are old enough to comprehend why some actions or behavior is just that unacceptable it is no longer reasonable to use this method. The times I did spank my kids would fit on one hand.

There are some actions that I may only get ONE opportunity to tell my children not to do, such as running out into the street. These instances were few and far between but I did spank them and I stand by that decision.

The thing with spanking is if you do it all the time with out good cause it looses any effectiveness and becomes abusive in nature because the child is not going to take anything away from the experience. If done very rarely it conveys to the child how wrong or dangerous their action or behavior was.

control with fear and they will hate
control with love they will be at peace

why do you think we hate the system so much

anyone who uses any form of hitting/smacking should be ashamed of themselves, i despair reading comments saying that it's ok. It just shows a complete lack of intelligence, whoever hits their children should be hit themselves, see how they like it.

reply to post by seagull


You are confusing discipline with spanking or hitting. Not only are those two things not one in the same, they are often at odds with one another.

Yes society will discipline your child as an adult if you fail to when they are kids and the consequences, social, professional, legal etc. are increasingly severe the longer the child goes without discipline and launches into adulthood, but spanking is not the solution, it is resignation.

The man-children or women-children that we see in todays world are the product of parents shielding their children from life's natural consequences. Those parents are "Helicopter parents" hovering over their kids every activity and social interaction, shielding them from dissapointment or getting their feelings hurt. Stepping in to resolve conflicts rather than letting their children learn to resolve their own conflicts. Telling them that although they lost their soccer game by 30 points...they still won Let your kids get messy with life, let them sort out thier own friendships, let them know that they aren't the best soccer player and that is life, find something they are better at or tell them to practice more. Don't jump in everytime a kid tattles...tell them to work it out themselves. Don't run over to confront some mom whose kid said something mean to yours...let it be. Help you kid porocess, but don't do the work for them,...and that includes homework. Let them learn from life while they are kids and they won't have to as adults when the stakes are higher. There is a lot wrong with modern parenting, but none of it has to do with not enough spanking.

Some of us were hit as children and still carry the scars. My children may have been spanked and by spanked I mean one swat on the but with a bare hand three times in total. I may only get ONE opportunity to teach my child not to do something that could possibly kill them. If that makes me a monster than I am a monster but my children are still alive and well and that is what matters to me most.

Originally posted by Ladysophiaofsandoz
I may only get ONE opportunity to teach my child not to do something that could possibly kill them. If that makes me a monster than I am a monster but my children are still alive and well and that is what matters to me most.

What makes you think that spanking teaches them anything? A tonnage of research disagrees with you. Spanking teaches fear/anxiety. It wires children to respond to situations with fight or flight as opposed to thoughtfulness. Perhaps it was a method better suited for ancient times when many everyday decisions were life threatening, but in our complex world and professional life, those adults who are wired for either aggression or fear as first options do not succeed and often end up in trouble.

If you are capable of earning, not demanding, your childs love and respect....

Does anyone remember ever having a parent tell you genuinely that they were dissapointed in you? When you could see the sadness in their eyes? Did that effect you? Would you rather have been spanked?

Spanking teaches fear and anxiety. Everyone knows this. Statistics show this. Doesn't mean our parents were bad people if they spanked us, they did the best they could, but if we can do better, shouldn't we try? Aren't our kids worth our best effort? No parent feels good about themselves after spanking a child.

And the vast majority of parents who spank are not bad people and they love their kids. No need to demonize those folks. There is a much better way to raise children into adults, it just takes work on our part.

parents are responsible to bring up their children in a proper manner.
As many posters have said, discipline has to be maintained to teach the kids what is good and what is bad.

Would you leave your kid to grow up in their own way, irresponsibly?
which is exactly whats going on in UK....the YOBs are the perfect example.

I had a big mouth when i was young and i would use the curse /swear worlds i learn on tv/hear outside. and my mom/dad would whack me if used the words in the house or someone complained that i was using such. one time my mom got fed up and made me wash my mouth with soap..saying "clean your mouth...its to be use3d to say good things and not curses or swear words"

I am a parent now. When my son does wrong or disobeys, me and my wife, we explain with love that what he has done is bad. if he repeats the mistake, he gets warned again. on the third time, we spank him,
I am proud to say, my 10 year old son, however modern he is in his attitude, has good manners and common sense.

Old adages are true - Spare the rod and spoil the child.

reply to post by Indigo5


Millions of years of evolution have created a fight or flight response for life-threatening situations, 50 years of flawed research says we should teach thoughtfulness?

When a city bus is barreling down the road 12 inches from the curb, or the boiling water is teetering on the edge of the stove, I want the kid to remember getting smacked last time the stepped off the curb without holding my hand, and there may not be time for discussion or thoughtfulness.

I'll take a live kid with hurt feelings over a dead kid with thoughtfulness any day.

In the past few years here at FSU, I have known several bright young 18 yr olds that ended up dead b/c of jogging off a curb, or texting while driving, or letting their idiot boyfriend show them a gun. Maybe they would still be alive if they had been smacked a few more times as youngsters and their fight or flight had been programmed better.

What did the kennedys do to their kid when they could not control them.

Full frontal phlebotomy anyone.


Poor kid.

Then they locked her in a asylum.

Yes a little spanking when they get out of line maybe if it is warranted.

But I would rather use some other form of ppunishment.

I usually have the take your # away when your bad and get nice stuff and do fun things when we are good.

Oh you wanna have a sleep over. Well lets see how good you behaving on the calander.
Oh look all sad faces I guess not.

Maybe next week we can make those smiley faces and maybe was can have a sleep over and have some pop corn and play some cool games.

Usually this works 85 percent of the time.

Sometimes a go to your room and don't come down until you have changed your attitude.

This usually takes anywhere from 5 mintues to an hour.


How many times I have heard it.


Daddy. Yes ... Can I please come out of my room.... Why? Because I'm sorry and I want to come out now.

Are you gonna behave.. Yes daddy... I'm sorry daddy.

And that is usally tyhen end of it.

I love when the come groveling back.

I'm sorry daddy.....


I'm like dam skippy your sorry. Sometimes just acting a little pissed when they start goofing off is enough to straighten them out.

LOVE IT..
He he he

My parents used the "spanking" on me when I was a kid...I hated it then, but will readily admit that in many cases it was an effective form of discipline. They only used it as a last resort, and looking back, I had pretty much all of them coming to me.

Now I'm the father of a 14 year old girl (single parent for 12 of those years). In her 14 years I have had to use exactly one single swat to her backside as a disciplinary measure. This was for blatantly disrespecting her mother when she was 8 or 9 years old. Fortunately, my daughter is a much better behaved child than I ever was; so it has never been something that has had to occur again, but the child has never been disrespectful to her mother in such a blatant way since that incident. I can't argue with the effectiveness of a well timed "swat" if it is not used for abuse. I hated that I had to do it, but my daughter bears no scars (physical or emotional) from it...and she is living her life as a civilized human being.

Of course, at her present age; which I feel is too old for physical disciple to be effective anymore, threatening to take away her cell phone for behavior issues is the most effective deterrent I have...and it works wonderfully. Much like the single spanking...or for mature adults, the idea of being arrested for crimes, the concept of the punishment is often the most effective means to reinforce good behavior. However; children may not understand the concept until shown the reality of the punishment. In my case, the reality only had to be shown once...as a parent. As far as the multiple spankings I received as a child...well, I'll readily admit to not being as smart or well behaved as my kid when our preteen years are compared.

My daughters half-brother, on the other hand, has never had any reason to respect his parents...he actually LAUGHS at his father and his attempts to discipline him (time outs, etc.). He repeats the same insubordinate behavior on a nearly daily basis. This is behavior that I see in many of the teenagers my daughter is in high school with, so I can see that it isn't something that is simply grown out of. I would rather have made that single swat on my daughters behind than have raised a brat like that.

Originally posted by Equ1nox
anyone who uses any form of hitting/smacking should be ashamed of themselves, i despair reading comments saying that it's ok. It just shows a complete lack of intelligence, whoever hits their children should be hit themselves, see how they like it.

I used to get hit, as a young child. In the moment, yeah I hated it, but looking back now as a 20 year old man, it was for my best interest. It is not horrible to discipline your child with spanking, as other posters have said, it fills the gap between stupid ideas and pain. I see so many self-entitled and egocentric kids nowadays, no matter what age level. Parents are becoming so lenient that they get stepped on by their kids, and have NO idea what to do when things go wrong. Yes, give your child freedom and respect, but teach them authority and respect too. YOU'RE in charge, NOT them. If you let them be in charge, your kid will end up in jail or dead. Or severely handicapped in terms of life (having a job, friends, etc etc). Nobody likes a spoiled brat, and the best way to avoid that is to discipline and enforce certain things. Don't be a dictator, but dont be a pushover either. Be friendly, be cool, be understanding.. but when they get too rowdy or out of hand, then spanking must come in. It teaches boundaries, it teaches limits, and most importantly, respect for authority. ( I dont mean in the sense of police officers, thats a different issue, i mean towards their parents.) It sickens me to see kids talk back to their parents, hit their parents, cuss at their parents, and what have you. I would NEVER do any of those things, and I can attribute that to my upbringing. To me, that is much more valuable than whatever hedonistic thing I wanted to do in the past.

The way I see it.

If a child does not believe that a cigarette lighter in the car is hot.
*Do you explain it to them that it's hot?
A lecture is nothing more then a lecture. It proves little in the mind of a child.

*Would it be faster and more efficient to let them touch it to learn right then and there that its hot?
Pain is the strongest receptor in the Brain. If it hurts you definitely wont want to do that again. Right?

Lets say your doing a stunt trick and you fall flat of your face. You get hurt. But you realized your mistake and you don't ever do that again intentionally.

They learn very quickly through spankings what is right and what is wrong,

The same is proven time and time again with raising kids. Pain teaches more then a lecture. If your bad. You can get a spanking. Or smacked.
Most reasons for punishment is for:

Breaking the rules
Behaving badly
Fighting
Cussing
Insulting people
Breaking things intentionally
Being rude to teachers
Behaving poorly in class and school.

There is a fine line from discipline to actual child abuse.

Right now in these times we have laws that basically forbid parents from spanking. This is also a time where we have a massive problem of teachers being assaulted by students. Kids commiting adult crimes ( such as illegal possession of drugs and firearms, burglary, theft, assault, rape, and murder.) Complete disrespect for authority and for school in general. We have the highest dropout rates in history. Kids cant even hold down a job because they have a total lack of respect for authority. And most of this skyrocketed when laws were put in place to stop child abuse by telling everyone spanking was illegal. The current generation of young adults im sure many of you will notice seems less educated, disrespectful and just terrible in the workforce.

This is a subject I have discussed many times. Try asking people you know at work. If they have a criminal history. I know many people that have been in and out of jail. I have asked them did your parents ever spank you. The largest majority of them said NEVER. While almost every person I have asked that did not have a criminal record at all said their parents did spank them many times when they were bad.

My mother was a strong willed woman that loved Wooden spoons and Switches off of trees. My father favored a fat leather belt that had a Huge steel Florida buckle on it. I have never been in trouble or in jail. Been successful in any job I have ever held. Mostly in management through promotions.

I am a firm supporter against child abuse but I do think responsible parents should be allowed to discipline children physically as long as they do not cross the line. Some may say I am ignorant or other dumb things that make them feel special but this works. My kids are respectful, do well in school, obey the rules, are respectful of other peoples feelings, and are very happy and wonderful kids.

I don't down people that have found a way without spanking. But I know what works better. Not all kids will go for those simple punishments.

From Heinlein's "Starship Troopers" chapter 8. I recommend ppl reading that chapter. As seen on www.afn.org...

"You see, they assumed that Man has a moral
instinct."
"Sir? But I thought -- But he does! I have."
"No, my dear, you have a cultivated conscience, a most carefully
trained one. Man has no moral instinct. He is not born with moral sense. You
were not born with it, I was not -- and a puppy has none. We acquire moral
sense, when we do, through training, experience, and hard sweat of the mind.
These unfortunate juvenile criminals were born with none, even as you and I,
and they had no chance to acquire any; their experiences did not permit it.
What is `moral sense'? It is an elaboration of the instinct to survive. The
instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our
personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival
instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails
to show up in future generations. This truth is mathematically demonstrable,
everywhere verifiable; it is the single eternal imperative controlling
everything we do."

....

"These juvenile criminals hit a low level. Born with only the instinct
for survival, the highest morality they achieved was a shaky loyalty to a
peer group, a street gang. But the do-gooders attempted to `appeal to their
better natures,' to `reach them,' to `spark their moral sense.' Tosh! They
had no `better natures'; experience taught them that what they were doing
was the way to survive. The puppy never got his spanking; therefore what he
did with pleasure and success must be `moral.

...

Back to these young criminals
-- They probably were not spanked as babies; they certainly were not flogged
for their crimes. The usual sequence was: for a first offense, a warning --
a scolding, often without trial. After several offenses a sentence of
confinement but with sentence suspended and the youngster placed on
probation. A boy might be arrested many times and convicted several times
before he was punished -- and then it would be merely confinement, with
others like him from whom he learned still more criminal habits. If he kept
out of major trouble while confined, he could usually evade most of even
that mild punishment, be given probation -- `paroled' in the jargon of the
times.
"This incredible sequence could go on for years while his crimes
increased in frequency and viciousness, with no punishment whatever save
rare dull-but-comfortable confinements. Then suddenly, usually by law on his
eighteenth birthday, this so-called `juvenile delinquent' becomes an adult
criminal -- and sometimes wound up in only weeks or months in a death cell
awaiting execution for murder. "

...

These three excerpts are rather interesting imo. If I could I would copy the whole of chapter 8, but I am not sure moderators would allow it(see how well behaved I am, although it is easier to get forgivenesss than permission) and again I encourage you to read that chapter, it's short so feel encouraged!
Today going to prison is not really punishment, it's akin to a "time-out" for a kid in the house. In some countries, you have access to your personal TV, internet basicly anything. And for some it's a badge of honour getting some jailtime. How is this punishment? For the lone reason you're not allowed to go where you want? There is no REASON why kids should be afraid of doing anything at all what they want, if all they get is a "timeout". Fear of loosing ones life, the instinct to survive is refined over thousands of years, because it works to ensure certain behavior. Unless we want to have a totalitarian approach to raising new humans, we must accept that some humans are raised(by design or ignorance) to behave exactly as they want to, using violence to get what they want. If we want those who do that like Saddam Hussein, Josef Fritzl and a million more examples, NOT to do so, how do we deal with it? WE, society, use violence to oppose it. Iraq was invaded = Violence for example. People are put in jail, after being forcefully being removed from the streets.
So there a certain types of violence we accept, be it physical or mental and not others. Seems arbitrary which is ok'ed and which are not.
I know of an individual who is such a disturbance to society that he needs 30 people, mostly social workers, to safeguard him 24 hours a day, to make sure he doesn't freak out and cause harm to others. How does that make sense? If he is such a problem and can't be reached, what is the point of retaining him in society?
Do I think it is a tragedy that he has turned out the way he has? Of course! It's deeply tragic that he has been raised in a manner that resulted in him being a psychopath, or if his dna has part of it. But it doesn't make him any less a psycho.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Millions of years of evolution have created a fight or flight response for life-threatening situations, 50 years of flawed research says we should teach thoughtfulness?

for "life threatening situations"? Moving the goal posts a little? Do you think kids are spanked only when their life is put in dange through their actions? Not for mouthing off? That seems a bit of a dishonest play on logic.

The problem is that spankings pump cortisol into developing minds and associate it with the wrong things...personal conflict...not getting your way...pain inflicted by people that are the center of your world.

A kid steps off the curb and you pick them up and spank them...the last thing they are thinking about is that car that might have hit them. Spanking is disconnect and wires kids to respond with anxiety, fear or violence. How much does it rewire them? Depends on how often it happens. Just the truth.

When a city bus is barreling down the road 12 inches from the curb, or the boiling water is teetering on the edge of the stove, I want the kid to remember getting smacked last time the stepped off the curb without holding my hand, and there may not be time for discussion or thoughtfulness.

That is a pitty...a detailed and honest conversation about what happens if they get hit by a car or have boiling water pour over them is much, much more effective.

Not sure what to do with someone who derides "thoughtfulness"...teaching kids to think...before they act...is a bad thing.

Im not saying that beating a child is ok but....

punishing a bad child is fine by me...

back in da days, in the spartan age... child would be sent in the mountain, and would face new challenge like surviving a bear or wolf attack and some #.... nowdays child go ape # when they cant have what they want... ..

i come from a big family with 2 brothers, so I didnt always had what i wanted, and if my father wasnt happy with me, id get beat, and so what, he didnt beat me to death, just to let me understand that this behavior was bad. and i fixed my problems and i thanks my father.

i just wish more parents would do the same because so many #ing retard kids on the street nowdays..

reply to post by Indigo5


I agree with you about not spanking for just some random occurence like mouthing off. (Unless they are 15, and then a spanking might humiliate them enough to get their attention, LOL!)

I don't smack in place of the detailed conversation, and I don't think thoughtfulness is a bad thing, but situations occur where instinct is more important than thoughtfulness. I mean, do you really think about looking left, right, left when you are driving a car, or looking both ways before crossing a road, or does it just happen autonomously?

In my example, as we approach a crosswalk, I tell them to hold my hands (little kids 3-5 year olds), and I tell them to wait at the curb and I tell them to look both ways, etc., etc. BUT, if one tries to jerk their hand away, or takes off running in front of me, I grab them, smack their butts, and then give them a good lecture about minding, and about getting hurt or killed. The first thing I do is stop them right in the middle of their bad behavior, and associate shock, surprise, and pain to that bad behavior! After that association is made, and I think it is memorable, then we get to the business of explaining it and making it meaningful.

Its all about putting first things first. Stepping off a curb without looking both ways equals pain. Simple and direct and natural.

I've already mentioned earlier, I don't always spank. The first time one of my kids pointed a toy gun at the dog, I didn't spank him, instead I made him feel like crap, and I asked him why he wanted the dog to be dead, and why he didn't love the dog, and we made it a long and emotional conversation about guns, and love, and life. The kids wouldn't dream of pointing a gun, even a toy gun, at anything they don't want to kill now. No spankings needed, I didn't even have to take the gun away. In fact, I had to convince them it was ok to play again.

I think a parent needs a myriad of tools, and each tool should be pulled out and used when they least expect it, and when it will be the most shocking and memorable. When the kids won't listen to my wife, sometimes she scolds them, or puts them in timeout, or spanks them, but sometimes she just sits down and pretends to cry and asks them why they want to make everything so hard. They hate that approach the most, and they will go out of their way for days to make sure mama doesn't cry.

Everything parents do with their kids is manipulative, and as such, it is all a little dirty and underhanded, but it is for a noble purpose, because it is a parent's job to drive home a lesson and make it memorable and make the kid a better person for it.

Originally posted by biggmoneyme
the problem is some people think thats how you raise a child, by spanking them when they do bad. And thats where their parenting ends. A child learns by imitation. You have to be the best person you can be, so he learns that. providing a loving environment is the most important though. and then if the child does bad, spanking isn't even necessary. maye just an explantation

Yes, look them straight in the eye and explain why. Children love to be treated with respect. I lost control once and spanked my son for jerking the cats around by their tails after I'd warned him repeatedly. That was the way I was raised...grab and spank. Looking back I realized that all I had to do was make him sit for three minutes. He would have gotten the message. I'd rather my children mind me out of love and respect and not fear.

reply to post by Onboard2

I'd rather my children mind me out of love and respect and not fear.

Either one is fine with me as long as they mind. Actually, why not all three? Why not love, and respect, and fear?