The Coca Cola Conspiracy: The secret cause for the U.S. obesity epidemic

Originally posted by fleabit


Um.. the problem, at least in regards to children, is that their parents are FEEDING THEM CRAP!

Well, yeah. But that sure is a vague description.

You're avoiding my point. Parents are feeding their children crap, I know. But you need to pick one or the other. Are kids getting fat because they're eating too much or because they're eating crap?

You were stating that:

They got obese because their caloric input was greater than what they burned.

You said before that it was "simple science" that people get fat because they eat too much and don't exercise enough. Now it's because they eat crap?

I don't think you even know what your position is...

the first trouble with this, is, that everyone know what the ingredients of this are, and if they know, why are they still are putting this in theyr's childrends mouths, and drinking it themselves? and not doing excercices, or taking care of their body?

someone can remember the fat guys reaching the remote commercial?

Food and spice science is complex. Just because someone is fat doesn't necessarily mean they are unhealthy. Just because a person is skinny doesn't mean they are healthy either. Where the fat is on the body can sometimes tell you something but not closing you're jacket in the winter can make you build up stomach fat also. Without knowing all that's going on it's just assumptions. I can tell just by how someone looks sometimes if they are unhealthy, if they appear bloated than they are building up toxins in the fat cells because their body is not detoxifying them as the toxins are created. There are so many probable causes that it's going to take me many years of studying to be able to help people.

They got obese because their caloric input was greater than what they burned.

You said before that it was "simple science" that people get fat because they eat too much and don't exercise enough. Now it's because they eat crap?

I don't think you even know what your position is...

You can eat well and NOT exercise, and not be overweight you know. Many people eat a fairly healthy diet. Buy their own fruits and veggies and meats, and only rarely eat out, and don't eat a ton of junk food. They may not be super fit, but they are a healthy weight. If you eat crappier foods (i.e. highly processed, fast foods, junk food, candy, non-diet soda, etc.), and don't exercise, then you will take in more calories daily than you burn doing normal activities. i.e. you gain weight. This requires one of two things. Either being more active (burning more calories), or taking in less calories (eating better food). Yes.. it's very simple. Unless there is an underlying issue, like a thyroid problem or something, which is another kettle O fish.

It's the same for adults and children. It's an adults responsibility to teach their children about health, activity, and make sure they eat a healthy diet. That's all anyone does now though.. they point fingers. No accountability. It's easier to be lazy and not cook meals or exercise (or get your kids to do the same), and then blame the establishment.

I personally do a lot of my shopping at a Korean market in town. Good foods and veggies and meats and fish. It's a lifestyle choice. Being obese is 100% preventable.

reply to post by rickymouse


I like your line of thinking, too bad there's too many people who feel they have all the answers and to even have this conversation is a waste of time, then I wonder why they're having this conversation.
To me the more you speak of it the more sense you can make out of it. I would also add simple exersizes like 100 jumping jacks followed by 100 squats is an awesome fast workout if you have no more than 5 minutes to spare.
I do this as a warmup before weightlifting to release testosterone and cause rapid bloodflow quickly. Also will help you lose considerably fat in the process. I plan on being in my top shape this year, my prior best will be a hard bar to beat though. Love the challenge.

reply to post by MentalData

You seem to be an ignorant parent at that.

I raised a daughter that apparently knows how to choose food better than the US Government. I think that's enough reason to be arrogant, which I'm not. Since my first post I've been putting forward my opinion, and my point of view. This is more about personal responsibility than anything else, from my personal experience and from what I've seen around me.

And by the way, you replied to my post. So if you are going to start an argument, be damn sure to keep it without starting to go defensive and using personal arguments.

Well it seems the EU has worked everything out to perfection but I don't live there.

So now what? you are going to say that EU has it easy?

You realize that the European Union is an union made off more than 20 european countries. Different countries, from an economical standard to culture, we are very, very different. Heck, we even started both World Wars... Yet, we are more able to find consensus with each-other better and faster than the nation that pushes forward democracy across the world?

I think you just shot your own foot there.

The vending machines I referred to were in SCHOOLS..understand now?

Yes. That's why I said that parents should make their kids proper meals instead of giving them money to buy lunch, a few posts BACK.

"understand now?"

Your use of the term "what not" makes no sense.

Relevance?

Here, in the U.S, there are no ways of knowing IF, let this soak in, IF the produce you buy is GMO. Same for eating from restaurants.

Let this soak in... that's your responsibility. The responsibility of knowing what crap you eat, and how you eat it.

And seriously, we are debating costs and measures and diets, and you throw in restaurants?

Restaurants are a luxury, not a need. And any sorts of meals that you purchase there, you can cook at home, more than half the costs. How do you think restaurants make money? Crossing their fingers?

The public water, despite your ignorance, IS contaminated with flouride. NO CONSPIRACY, IT'S FACT.
public knowledge, no one denies this.

Apparently there is also a conspiracy theory about how to turn liquid water into vapor, because it's really not that hard to purify water, whatever the source, nor gather it, even in a city. Unless it's sea-water, but that's another discussion.

You need to really educate yourself on many topics before you could have a conversation with me.

And I'm the arrogant?

At least I speak with years of experience. Something, that by your speech, you clearly don't have.

And please, whatever instances you want to bring up concerning the EU, don't add them to my comments.
I live in New York so you have no idea what I'm talking about.

Seriously? Your post lacks content on all forms and shapes, yet you ramble about being right without providing anything at all. Like I said (multiple times, stating it clearly that I wasn't american) I'm putting forward my opinion and my point of view, along with my experience, which is in the EU.

Maybe you should be more concerned about learning where others succeeded instead of being so worried about being right?

Who's the arrogant now?

Now, go back and read my last thread and understand these are American issues. Everything I said is exact. No need for your wandering clarifications, thank you.

So besides not getting any substantial responses from you, I still have to go back to your profile and read your threads because you are too lazy to have an argument?

And people still wonder why there's an obesity problem. You can't even surf on the web without being lazy...

LOL, a vegetable for $.10 lasts 3 meals???

Yes. You can buy them at small local markets, prices are way lower than supermarket ones and the quality is far better since most of them are home-grown in small farms.

Whatever happened to small businesses in the US that sold good food? OH! Right.... People stopped buying them, so they went bankrupt and lost to the major surfaces because apparently, there is also a conspiracy about forcing people into buying crap instead of good food.

And as for the 3 meals. Yes, it can last 3 meals if you have a refrigerator. Unless you eat like a mad cow... Then it lasts less. But for 10cents a veggie, it's worth it anyway.

Surely you don't buy groceries or shop.

Actually, I do. And it's so easy I actually buy them every 2 days, fresh. Fish, meat and vegetables. The only thing I buy in supermarkets is sauce, spices and dried foods (pasta, etc).

You have to be about the most ignorant person to debate on ATS I've come across so far.

You're too kind and humble.

reply to post by rickymouse


I liked your post, you seem concerned about your health, which is something many people don't take seriously.

But I also think you shouldn't overcomplicate things. Humans eat anything (from meat to vegetables I mean), and as long as it's natural and you don't strict yourself to a narrowed down diet, you can't be wrong.

There are plenty of communities that show how healthy you can be with only natural resources of food, and I'm sure you are aware of those more than myself.

The main problem about eating-related health in the US is that people either don't care at all, or go for extremes. You can be healthy without being obsessive about it.

Either way, we might not agree on all basis, but I assure you, at least you have the will to learn and compensate for the lack of information in the US market. I do know that the temptation to give in to the mainstream diet is far greater than the pay-off from having your own diet. If that happens here, I imagine in the US where everything is "plastic".

Regards

Originally posted by rickymouse
Food and spice science is complex. Just because someone is fat doesn't necessarily mean they are unhealthy. Just because a person is skinny doesn't mean they are healthy either. Where the fat is on the body can sometimes tell you something but not closing you're jacket in the winter can make you build up stomach fat also. Without knowing all that's going on it's just assumptions. I can tell just by how someone looks sometimes if they are unhealthy, if they appear bloated than they are building up toxins in the fat cells because their body is not detoxifying them as the toxins are created. There are so many probable causes that it's going to take me many years of studying to be able to help people.

edit on 30-1-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

No, not really. People are so misinformed about weight loss and health and fat gain, and then spread that misinformation as fact. Being cold (or swimming a lot) doesn't make you get fat, it's negligible. Just like drinking cold water doesn't make you lose more weight. It's like people who think parking an extra 12 car lengths from a store or workplace is the step needed to help lose weight. That's not going to do the trick. Nor will going into the gym once a week and hitting the treadmill for 15 minutes.

You can be overweight but still relatively fit, but make no mistake, being heavier is a strain on your body - your joints, your heart has to work a lot harder, etc. Only in a few rare cares are obese people in great shape - for example, sumo wrestlers. They are some of the healthiest fat people around.

It's very simple: Steady exercise raises your metabolism as well as burns fat. Lower impact exercise is better for fat loss than higher impact. Burn more calories than you intake, you lose weight (and fat, if doing it at a reasonable HR). Eat 6 meals a day - don't skip meals, eat reasonable meals with portions that make sense. But even eating 3 reasonable meals is fine - just keep the calories under control. Weight watchers is a laugh - they are simply calling calories points, and charging you to count them. Just count your input and output. There are online caloric calculators to see how much you burn in your normal day. Add in your execise, and then remove what you ate for the day. As long as your # burned is greater than taken in.. tadah, you are losing weight.

Originally posted by fleabit

You can eat well and NOT exercise, and not be overweight you know.

That depends entirely on what you consider "eating well".

Many people eat a fairly healthy diet. Buy their own fruits and veggies and meats, and only rarely eat out, and don't eat a ton of junk food. They may not be super fit, but they are a healthy weight. If you eat crappier foods (i.e. highly processed, fast foods, junk food, candy, non-diet soda, etc.), and don't exercise, then you will take in more calories daily than you burn doing normal activities. i.e. you gain weight. This requires one of two things. Either being more active (burning more calories), or taking in less calories (eating better food). Yes.. it's very simple. Unless there is an underlying issue, like a thyroid problem or something, which is another kettle O fish.

But this completely ignores the observation that exercise won't counteract a poor diet. It doesn't...and studies are very clear on this.

It's the same for adults and children. It's an adults responsibility to teach their children about health, activity, and make sure they eat a healthy diet. That's all anyone does now though.. they point fingers. No accountability. It's easier to be lazy and not cook meals or exercise (or get your kids to do the same), and then blame the establishment.

Of course it's easy to be lazy. How can adults teach children about health and activity if they themselves are are completely misinformed as you are?

It's a lifestyle choice. Being obese is 100% preventable

Agreed. But you can't seem to make up your mind why. Is it because we eat too much and exercise too little... or is it because we eat unhealthy foods?

Exercise alone has NEVER been a good treatment for obesity. Consciously burning more calories than you take in doesn't work.

reply to post by ThisIsMyName


How is this a fact? Can you provide a link before you start making "old wives tails" into proof of your argument?

reply to post by TheOilTruth


It's not a fact. It's complete B.S.

Just more evidence that our governments own us and there is a darker agenda. We are sheep
Or maybe our governments love us for being such nice citizens and are treating us to a sweet sugary soft drink

I don't believe corn syrup regular and aspartame diets sodas are the only culprit. Society is less active physically(economical(less money to spend on the gym or go to outdoor activities...state parks--quite possible)and technology(sitting more-computers, cable, games, etc) reasons, most all foods are processed(linked to obesity) and 80 percent...more are GMO-still speculative.

Americans are getting bigger in bone structure size, one study had expressed, (food? better health care? etc?)...weight/height will averages will rise. Of course, it should not entail obesity which is abnormal.

Look now Net MSM is catching on;
3 Surprising reasons to give up soda;

3. Fattens up organs
2.Contains flame retardants
1. Soda makes you a lab rat

Yahoo Health

Originally posted by fleabit

Originally posted by rickymouse
Food and spice science is complex. Just because someone is fat doesn't necessarily mean they are unhealthy. Just because a person is skinny doesn't mean they are healthy either. Where the fat is on the body can sometimes tell you something but not closing you're jacket in the winter can make you build up stomach fat also. Without knowing all that's going on it's just assumptions. I can tell just by how someone looks sometimes if they are unhealthy, if they appear bloated than they are building up toxins in the fat cells because their body is not detoxifying them as the toxins are created. There are so many probable causes that it's going to take me many years of studying to be able to help people.

edit on 30-1-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

No, not really. People are so misinformed about weight loss and health and fat gain, and then spread that misinformation as fact. Being cold (or swimming a lot) doesn't make you get fat, it's negligible. Just like drinking cold water doesn't make you lose more weight. It's like people who think parking an extra 12 car lengths from a store or workplace is the step needed to help lose weight. That's not going to do the trick. Nor will going into the gym once a week and hitting the treadmill for 15 minutes.

You can be overweight but still relatively fit, but make no mistake, being heavier is a strain on your body - your joints, your heart has to work a lot harder, etc. Only in a few rare cares are obese people in great shape - for example, sumo wrestlers. They are some of the healthiest fat people around.

It's very simple: Steady exercise raises your metabolism as well as burns fat. Lower impact exercise is better for fat loss than higher impact. Burn more calories than you intake, you lose weight (and fat, if doing it at a reasonable HR). Eat 6 meals a day - don't skip meals, eat reasonable meals with portions that make sense. But even eating 3 reasonable meals is fine - just keep the calories under control. Weight watchers is a laugh - they are simply calling calories points, and charging you to count them. Just count your input and output. There are online caloric calculators to see how much you burn in your normal day. Add in your execise, and then remove what you ate for the day. As long as your # burned is greater than taken in.. tadah, you are losing weight.

And this is one of those opinions out there that flies in the face of what I've learned. Insulin response is pretty important. Eating 6 small meals a day keeps your body flooded with glucose and the resultant insulin. Give your beta cells a rest, for goodness sake!

Input vs output is too simplistic. All foods are not alike, and all foods are not handled in the same metabolic way. I am not picking on you! But you are repeating the old dogma of diet, and this old dogma is partially behind people's lack of understanding and resultant illness.

Eating 1,000 calories of Twinkies is not equal to eating 1,000 calories of green vegetables and steamed salmon. It is NOT calorie in and calorie out. Not to your body, and not to your health.

But these old wives tales die hard. You cannot tell a person who is fervent about his shiny new low fat, high carb diet that his "SnackWell fat free cookies" are doing him no favors. He is beneath his calorie limit, see?

i rarely drink soda because years ago i heard it wasn't good for you. my bmi is 22.4 but genetics might have a hand in that also

This guy makes a pretty good argument against the OP.
Straight talk about high-fructose corn syrup: what it is and what it ain't

There is no longer an association between HFCS and obesity in the United States: per capita consumption of HFCS has declined in recent years, whereas obesity rates continue to rise; and
There is absolutely no association between HFCS use and worldwide obesity; HFCS is really a minor sweetener in the global perspective.

Here is a list of the fattest countries. Most are not big on HFCS so as the above paper proposes HFCS is not a unique cause of obesity.
Worlds fattest countries

reply to post by Tifozi


You sound so ignorant I hurt for you.
Do you know what I am referring to when speaking of GMO??
If you do then understand here, in the U.S., there is no standard for labeling food GMO, get it?
So how the hell is it my responsibility or even possible for a consumer to know if the fruits are GMO
if they don't have to be labeled????

You, as good of a parent you claim to be, are not with your child at school to know exactly what they eat so stop with the "my child makes all the right decisions"

I'm probably in better shape than you, at least athletically, most would be hardpressed to compete.

What world you live in I'm not sure but nowhere here can you buy $.10 of anything and cook three meals with it. Suggesting my local vegetable stand has anything this cheap you are simply misinformed. Ask anyone current on food prices in New York what fresh food they can buy for $.10 let alone have it last 3 meals, come on man, what are you saying. Even lemons are 3/$1. Hell one pear works to about .40-.50 so this line of thinking makes no sense.
I do all shopping/cooking so I have first-hand knowledge of this.

Do a little research on agenda 21 and educate yourself to the problems the public is facing here in the U.S. as far as the industry onslaught against us, then climb down from your high horse and back to reality. It's o.k, you don't have to accuse everyone of being a lazy slob because the government is trying to sterilize/off a large portion of the population.

I can do 133 straight pushups so before you call me a lazy slob, check yourself.

reply to post by JustSlowlyBackAway


You make a good point, its what you eat and what your body gets out of those calories or better yet what it's looking for from them example drinking milk your body expects cholesterol/fat mostly and some sugar.

I would add though I have found if you work out the optimum intake is about every two-three hours. If you are not physical throughout the day then I wouldn't reccommend it but I would also add 3 large meals has got to be the worst.

HFCS is a nasty additive to food no matter how you cut it. Either way drinking syrup cannot be good. From what I have understood it is dealt with differently than sugar in the digestive system and its included in everything from breadcrumbs to sauce/ketchup and everything in between.

reply to post by daskakik


I would also add that article you linked is misleading at best. Look at obesity rates in U.S. from 1970 back and 1970-now and you will certailny see obesity at epidemic level the closer to the present you get. Also to state that HFCS consumption is down is ridiculous. The food world is polluted with it probably first to save expenses since its derived from corn and we grow tons as opposed to sugar from exports. But as I stated earlier its not just HFCS. Sugar in general is hidden in language in ingredient listings. It is not the only cause of obesity but I would certainly argue a leading cause saturation of HFCS/sugar in overall food.

There is also other epidemics linked to sugar in general like colitis/digestive diseases and heart disease that many feel are directly related to overconsumption of sugar/white flour (which is not shared with the medical community) as well as of course diabetes.

reply to post by MentalData

Misleading? It cites 37 refrences. It is backed up by science.
While Mexico and Argentina have a large obese population they consume very little HFCS. On the opther hand Japan and S. Korea consume large amounts and don't have half the obesity that Mexico and Argentina have. That alone shows that HFCS isn't the cause of obesity.

Looking at pre and post 70's shows an increase in calorie consumption from fats and grains not just HFCS.