The Coca Cola Conspiracy: The secret cause for the U.S. obesity epidemic

Epic post, will definitely watch the rest of it when I have time.

Brb, changing my diet to something that actually was meant for humans

Originally posted by Mach5
Epic post, will definitely watch the rest of it when I have time.

Brb, changing my diet to something that actually was meant for humans

Dr. Lustig presents to Harvard Law School how personal responsibility is not the real problem.

Right now everybody is still in personal responsibility mode. It's your fault. Basically if you say to people, eat less, exercise more, your in that mode because the corollary to that is it's your fault. Because you choose what your put into your mouth. You choose whether you get on the treadmill. It's your fault. And ultimately that is just not just effective but it's actually hurtful. Because nobody chooses to be obese. Nobody. Especially not any children. And that's who I take care of. And they taught me this very clearly.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


I actually love these conspiracies.

Not because I feel in any way related to them, or because they fascinate me in any way. I just love them because they are so easy to "debunk".

So what if Coca-cola has wrong morale standards and sells those drinks? So what if they are filled with sugar (whatever kind) and other chemicals for flavor, addiction or whatever?

The matter of fact is that there are numerous other conspiracies, or simple outrageous cases for people to get mad at, investigate and bring the responsible ones to justice (or some form of it).

Why bother with crap like this? If it's bad, don't drink it.

I don't see people making threads about conspiracies about the fact that eating rocks breaks your teeth. I also don't see people with conspiracies related to smoking. Not saying there aren't any, I'm sure there is still a powerful lobby with cigarette brands, but nobody is questioning wether they are good or not.

We are always learning, and we learn with time that some crap we eat and drink is bad for us.

I'm tired that people use this boogeyman concept of corporations and companies to justify their own mistakes.

Coca-cola isn't making anyone fat, nor any other brand or any other product. What is in fact making people fat, is the irresponsible way western countries (especially the US) handle their eating habits and respective diets.

You don't see this kind of crap in countries that still hold on to their native and cultural diets. It's almost funny to me to see news about obesity in europe compared to american, for instance. It's like, in europe, when people discuss weight problems, if you look at most numbers, they are half what americans deal with.

You actually allowed the problem to get almost viral in behavior, and spread out like some sort of disease. But it's not. If you are getting fat, close your freaking mouth. Food won't make you fat if you don't eat it. The most important thing about health is self-control and balance. There aren't any excuses for eating badly, not even lack of time. If you don't have time to eat properly, you have to actually consider your life-style. Work is meant to support you, give you the resources to sustain your life. Do you see the "crack" in logic if your work is actually making you sick or weak? It's a situation so pathetic in it's basis that you have to make some effort to understand why it exists in the first place.

And for those who are trying to grasp this so bad, that they even say "but our kids grow up with sugar needs that are abnormal"... Well, as far as I know, women have breasts. They are a lot of fun, and are pretty, but they are actually there to FEED the women's children, which means, breasts don't actually produce Coca-cola. They produce milk, which brings the loop to the same spot again... Who feeds this crap to children? It's the Coca-cola responsibility? No, it's yours (generally speaking). Kids are getting fat and sick because parents lack the responsibility to actually take care of them, and this goes from education standards and educational support to what you feed your children.

I never had health problems, especially not the kind that are consequence of a irresponsible diet. Not because it's genetic, not because it's cultural or related to nationality, but simply because I take seriously what I eat. I always ate chocolate, I love an ice cold coke in the summer, I like McDonald's or Burger King or KFC, but you see, I only eat those things once a month, or every couple of months, and I actually respect people who don't eat that at all.

But on the other hand, people shouldn't make any sorts of extremes. If you eat poorly, you shouldn't go vegan. Just be careful and responsible with what you eat.

If I don't like certain meat sources, I buy biological grown meat. Same with vegetables. They are available, they are just not available without any sort of effort and you do need to pay attention.

It's almost like half the crap people complain about. If people actually read what they agree to with contracts, and actually read the labels of the products they consume, half this stuff wouldn't even be discussed.

Just my opinion.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong

Right now everybody is still in personal responsibility mode. It's your fault. Basically if you say to people, eat less, exercise more, your in that mode because the corollary to that is it's your fault. Because you choose what your put into your mouth. You choose whether you get on the treadmill. It's your fault. And ultimately that is just not just effective but it's actually hurtful. Because nobody chooses to be obese. Nobody. Especially not any children. And that's who I take care of. And they taught me this very clearly.

I am truly shocked how someone has the balls to go to Harvard and say that it's "not your fault" and that saying to people "move your fat ass" is hurtful.

What are we supposed to do as society? Continue to feed them? Sue companies in millions just because people are stupid?

So what if children are getting obese? It's not the companies responsability. They make a crap product, DON'T BUY IT. It's your responsability as a consumer what you grab from the shelf and buy.

I'm at a loss for words to how idiotic that argument is.

Of course a kid doesn't know what to eat, and of course they are easy targets for these corporations. But what the F has happened to being a parent? What happened to saying "NO!" to your kid and teaching him what's good and bad for him?

So what? Now companies and corporations have to educate your children? Seriously...

To me, this is all pathetic.

reply to post by flexy123


Amen... lol, your post almost made me spit out my water..

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


There is no sodium in coke! perhaps back in the day but i just looked at the bottle next to me and it says 0g

well im looking at this diet coke can that my girlfriend just drank next to me and it says 40 mg's of sodium in it..

reply to post by Tifozi


You miss the point. These products are mostly pushed to attract KIDS. More than that, you never know exactly which products Coca-Cola and similar companies own. Yes you can say adults should avoid them but they own or oversee the production of how many other products designed to detriment the human body?

Second, there are no mandatory or voluntary warning labels on these products to educate people who have no idea the effect HFCS has on the human body.

Back to the first point, children should be more protected from this onslaught. I remember some years back, in New York, all sodas were removed from school vending machines only to be replaced with Snapple. Same difference only a bottle of Snapple has MORE HFCS because the bottle holds more than the can. Snapple is soda w/out carbonation. So as you can see it is important and should be discussed.

reply to post by RestlessNRG


False, all soda has sodium and its measured in milligrms, not grams.

reply to post by MentalData

These products are mostly pushed to attract KIDS.

Westernd kids don't work, which means they don't have an income, which by itself translates to the fact that they don't have purchase power. Their parents do. And if parents buy, it's because they are just answering a stupid cry from a child they are supposed to raise under discipline.

Being a bad parent isn't an excuse.

More than that, you never know exactly which products Coca-Cola and similar companies own.

You do. Read the labels. Coca-cola actually makes a stand of being proud of their products, which means all Coca-cola products (like Fanta and whatnot) actually have the Coca-Cola Company logo somewhere in the label.

By the way, along with the logo, there is detailed information on the contents of such products. And it also states all the info people complain about "not knowing".

Yes you can say adults should avoid them but they own or oversee the production of how many other products designed to detriment the human body?

It's not a government secret what's good and bad for you.

Water is good, and the best. Milk is also good. Meat, vegetables, and the sorts, are also good for you. Actually, anything natural is good for you.

The sources are up to the consumer, and the quality of the products go as low as the consumer allows them to go.

In my country we like our meat tasty, chemical free and cheap. You know what suppliers were forced to do in order to sell here? Yeah... Supply cheap, good, chemical free meat.

Just ONE example.

there are no mandatory or voluntary warning labels on these products to educate people who have no idea the effect HFCS has on the human body.

No. But when you purchase something that is brown, has gas in it and makes you as hyped up as drinking 2 cups of coffee, maybe you should read the label to know what's in it that causes that.

And the fact that you can read complex things like HFCS in the label should make people wonder what they are ingesting.

Would you eat something that you don't know what it has inside? I wouldn't.

children should be more protected from this onslaught. I remember some years back, in New York, all sodas were removed from school vending machines only to be replaced with Snapple. Same difference only a bottle of Snapple has MORE HFCS because the bottle holds more than the can. Snapple is soda w/out carbonation. So as you can see it is important and should be discussed.

Actually, there are several studies that show that if kids are taught how to eat, and are given healthy and tasty alternatives, they will opt for the healthy diet.

Their bodies are in the development stages, they will consume what captivates them more. If they are educated to eat with pleasure food that is good for them, they won't even chase those crappy foods.

I don't eat a lot of chocolate because I don't like it. I do. But I feel the crave for good food.

And in the end, kids only buy crap in school because their parents send them to school without any food, or any good food.

See the pattern here?

reply to post by Tifozi


Seems you have a lot to learn , my friend. Reason you can't advertise cigarettes or alcohol certain distance from school grounds?

Water is polluted with flouride, discussed in another thread. Milk has been pasteurized and homogenized and in some places it is illegal to sell raw milk.

There is no determining factor to know if you are buying GMO food or not. If you don't know the relevance, the food is grown with the pesticide built into the plant changing the molecular make-up of the plant by preventing it from absorbing certain minerals among other things.

There is no official guideline to let shoppers know the dangers of HFCS on ANY product. Some voluntarily say no HFCS, doesn't have to tell you why.

Kids can buy their own soda or candy there's no age limit so to state that made no sense. If you weren't aware kids are not joined to their mothers hip and do get allowance and lunch money. Another "blame the parents" hack. I'm not even a parent and can see the stupidity of that statement.
Yes if the parents buy it and have a house full of it, different story. Not always the case.
And like I said society is surrounded and bombarded with this kind of garbage.

* Here's a lesson, take ten random products and read the ingredients. Generally it will go something like this:
Bleached flour, HFCS, soybean oil, sucrose, salt, corn meal, artificial flavor, monodiglicerides, water, potassium sorbate, corn syrup, artificial color, brown sugar.

Nice tricks to break up the sugar ingredients in food.
To not see the food industries tricks to dump junk on the public is to be blind.

reply to post by Tifozi


(Your cat on the water slide is hilarious. I was distracted...LOL)

I agree with your comment about not eating foods unless you know what's in them. And choosing wisely. But, in this country, we are taught that certain foods, like whole grains, are good for us. People believe this. Many think that eating a diet very high in starchy carbs and low in fat is the way to go because the mainstream medical and FDA say so.

But starchy carbs and sugars cause a glucose spike in blood, and a resulting insulin response. Eventually, over-eating of carbs can lead to insulin resistance and diabetes down the road. Now, the people who are really thinking and trying to follow this advice are not consciously making bad choices. They are following the suggestions given them. And don't know that they are doing themselves a lot of harm.

I used to bake whole grain bread using organic wheat. We ate a lot of it, along with whole grain pasta. I was sick. I had Syndrome X, which is a precursor to diabetes. I thought i was doing it right, and was listening to my doctor. But it wasn't until I cut out sugar, wheat and carbs that I felt good. I added fats (good ones), and lost weight. My diet now is based around both raw and lightly cooked vegetables, adequate protein (we can't find and can't afford grass fed beef, so we eat less beef), a very occasional low glycemic fruit, and a small amount of dairy in the form of yogurt that I make myself.

Most people would balk at giving up bread. I did at first, but don't miss it now. And my problems are gone.

My point is, I think a lot of people are accepting of what they are told. Should we blame them?

As far as kids choosing good stuff at school, I was a high school teacher for 25 years and had ample opportunity to observe what the kids would choose. I'm sorry, but given great healthy choices daily such as salads, veggies, a baked main item, and fresh fruits always available - they would go through the line and have two servings of fries with a BOWL of ketchup. Eventually, the school stopped putting ketchup out and went to packets because the kids were using it almost like a beverage! The school also limited fries to once a week offerings to try to slow this practice down. But the kids just bought 10 cookies. I would guess that maybe 1/3 of the kids I saw made appalling choices. I used to wonder what their parents would think if they could see. Kids are invincible, you see, and they don't believe eating like this will harm them even though they have been told.

reply to post by MentalData

Seems you have a lot to learn , my friend.

With all due respect, it's not me but you. Especially on parenting.

Reason you can't advertise cigarettes or alcohol certain distance from school grounds?

Because those are the bogeeyman's of children. People don't make the mental effort of educating their kids so they don't want to smoke, they just cry to parliaments so they ban things, and then they get surprise how kids get hold of them anyway.

Not everyone is a smoker, and a lot of young kids never pick up a cigarette. Have you tried to actually think about the "why"?

Education is a powerful thing. Especially when done the right way.

Water is polluted with flouride, discussed in another thread. Milk has been pasteurized and homogenized and in some places it is illegal to sell raw milk.

No, there is a conspiracy theory on water pollution by flouride. And besides, you don't have to drink water from the tap, you can get water from other sources.

Why not use the ridiculous amount of threads on water pollution to educate people on how to get proper water, or how to clean the water they consume?

Excuses and more excuses.

Same with milk. We have a lot of brands in Europe who have no problems with any sorts of milk, and people are stimulated into giving breast milk to babies, and then to use proper milk formulas from that moment forward. And the rest, is just good products. Again, because we demand the quality.

Any company that dares to put crap in products is doomed to fail. It happened so many times it's not even funny.

There is no determining factor to know if you are buying GMO food or not. If you don't know the relevance, the food is grown with the pesticide built into the plant changing the molecular make-up of the plant by preventing it from absorbing certain minerals among other things.

If that happens in the US, it's because nobody wanted to change that.

In Europe the meat that is processed needs to have certain EU regulated labels, telling YOU where it comes from, how it was grown, and it has to be under EU certificates. That's actually where a lot of EU funds go towards: funding biological products.

As for the vegetables, it's the same. Regulations and whatnot.

It's not that we don't have GMO food and whatnot. We do. But we also have a choice right next to that. Funny thing that most people are buying biological, eh?

There is no official guideline to let shoppers know the dangers of HFCS on ANY product. Some voluntarily say no HFCS, doesn't have to tell you why.

Again, it's your responsibility to ingest something that has stuff like "HFCS" or "WTF" written on the label.

Like I said in the previous post. I wouldn't eat something that contains stuff I don't know what it is. Would you? If you do, it's your responsibility.

There are laws that force companies into making real labels with all the information. They might mask it, but it's there. If you are a responsible consumer, you will read it and if you don't know what it is, you will inform yourself before going through your life drinking that crap, and then watching whole generations that are unable to look down and see their own penises.

I'm starting to admire your desire to make up excuses for people stupidity and irresponsibility.

I've yet to see a soda vending machine that grabs you from the street, opens your mouth, takes the coins out of your pocket, and then pours coke down your throat against your will.

Kids can buy their own soda or candy there's no age limit so to state that made no sense. If you weren't aware kids are not joined to their mothers hip and do get allowance and lunch money. Another "blame the parents" hack. I'm not even a parent and can see the stupidity of that statement.

I would actually take the time to refute such an ignorant argument, but I've a simple way of answering you:

You're clearly not a parent.

I am.

Yes if the parents buy it and have a house full of it, different story. Not always the case.
And like I said society is surrounded and bombarded with this kind of garbage.

Besides not being a parent, apparently you don't own your house either.

Natural and cooked food is cheaper than any crap you can buy. That's how they make money. Making you believe you actually pay less for more, while you don't.

You pay more, for less health and less food.

A vegetable you buy for 10 cents can last you for 3 meals. Let McDonald's beat that money for value.

It is. Society is filled with crap like this. But it's your responsibility to not go down with such primordial urges.

Seriously... Not being able to walk away from a vending machine? Give me a break.

Why do people worry about the health effects of drinking too much Coke. The company had help designing the formula from Monsanto corporation in the early 1900s after the government told it to remove the drugs out of it. Back then Monsanto wasn't that bad of a corporation, those owners have been replaced.

reply to post by Tifozi

RE: labeling- Perhaps not known in Europe, but here in the US it is illegal to mention GMOs in labeling. We are not permitted to know. The only way to be certain is to buy organic or grow it yourself.

There are grassroot movements trying to get labeling mandatory, but Monsanto owns the FDA and USDA. So, no one is holding their breath.

It's really hard here to find clean food. You are lucky. I don't know your country of origin, but most of the EU has wisely banned GMOs. And imported foods are labeled if they contain them.

Corn and soy are biggies. Over 90% of these crops are GM. They appear in the vast majority of factory foods. We are just now beginning to understand the implications for health.

reply to post by JustSlowlyBackAway


I hope it makes what is meant to do (the cat), make people giggle a bit and not take things so seriously. lol Glad you like!

But, in this country, we are taught that certain foods, like whole grains, are good for us. People believe this. Many think that eating a diet very high in starchy carbs and low in fat is the way to go because the mainstream medical and FDA say so.

I'm not saying the contrary. I hope I've not came out the wrong way, I'm not blaming americans for their obesity rates. I am however telling people that it's their own personal responsability to seek their own health is taken care of, and if everyone does that, then the government and surrounding companies are forced to follow consumer demand. You can't sell what people wont buy.

It's up to the american people to start demanding proper food regulations. Not simply debating them and continuously create conspiracy theories out of thin air.

Europeans aren't better or worst. We just, by chance, got ahead in terms of health regulations, and americans should take the good example we were able to create in food.

I might add that the problem isn't american "food culture". Burgers and all that stuff isn't bad. What is bad is the ingredients that you use. If the meat is crap, if the bread is crap, if the vegetables are filled with chemicals, and so forth... no matter where you eat, the burgers will be bad food.

We eat burgers here all the time. But our bread is healthier, our vegetables are clean, and our meat is lean and fresh. Our cheese isn't made from plastic, and so forth.

The irony of all this is that in the US, since you are such a "filthy-rich cultural" country you have foods from every single corner of this Earth. You should take advantage of that. Due to diversity alone, americans should have the best health in the world, not one of the worst.

My point is, I think a lot of people are accepting of what they are told. Should we blame them?

If there wasn't information out there, yes.

How many tv programs are focused around good food? Jamie Oliver, Gordon Ramsay, Oprah, Martha Stewart and all those tv reality shows about food teach you the basis or at least inspire you to seek better food. People are glued to those programs, but the "funny" part is, people actually watch those shows while eating a pack of chips and drinking a 6-pack of soda... that's pathetic!

The information is out there, and your meat might not be the best, and your veggies could be better... But hey, if you don't start somewhere, things aren't gonna change them-selfs.

People have to make the effort into changing their habits for the better. Why not make pizza at home with stuff you buy in stores? It's half the price, you can save that to make different meals, and everyone goes out belly-full...

I'm not talking out of my azz... I do this at my own home, and it's not that hard. It seems hard, because accepting change is hard. But it actually can be a lot of fun. And makes you proud about your own cooking abilities.

As far as kids choosing good stuff at school, I was a high school teacher for 25 years and had ample opportunity to observe what the kids would choose.

Since you were a teacher, I think you will be delighted to see Jamie Oliver's work in the UK. I think UK members could shine a better light on the subject than me, but he attempted to change UK's public school food programs. Making them cheaper (20 cents a meal I think), healthier and more appealing to children.

His biggest opponent? Cooks who didn't want to change abits, and a mentality that refused the better path, just because eating crap is easier.

But he did it in several schools, and kids actually started to enjoy healthy food. Actually, most started to demand better food, once they got past the "vegetable" trauma. lol

Ironic, isn't it?

reply to post by JustSlowlyBackAway


I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I was only making the case that it isn't impossible to live better, and I was just enforcing personal responsibility in all this.

The main problem aren't the ingredients. It's how they are served, and most of the eating diets. Even if you had non-GMO products wouldn't make a difference. McDonald's could use non-GMO products in all their menus, and people would still be fat and diabetic.

It's a matter of choice, and taking responsibility. And nobody is going to be able to change my mind on that, not because I'm closed minded, but because I've went through that change myself, and it can be done.

At first it's hard, and it takes time and effort. But once you go past the barrier, and you gather the knowledge, you will feel really good. Healthier, and more satisfied. You will prep and cook your own food to standards you thought you couldn't achieve at home.

And the best part: I've cut by more than half my household expenses related to food. And the quality has doubled.

reply to post by Tifozi


You seem to be an ignorant parent at that. Well it seems the EU has worked everything out to perfection but I don't live there.
The vending machines I referred to were in SCHOOLS..understand now?

Your use of the term "what not" makes no sense.

Here, in the U.S, there are no ways of knowing IF, let this soak in, IF the produce you buy is GMO. Same for eating from restaurants.

The public water, despite your ignorance, IS contaminated with flouride. NO CONSPIRACY, IT'S FACT.
public knowledge, no one denies this.

You need to really educate yourself on many topics before you could have a conversation with me. And please, whatever instances you want to bring up concerning the EU, don't add them to my comments.
I live in New York so you have no idea what I'm talking about.

Now, go back and read my last thread and understand these are American issues. Everything I said is exact. No need for your wandering clarifications, thank you.

reply to post by Tifozi


LOL, a vegetable for $.10 lasts 3 meals??? Surely you don't buy groceries or shop. As for what I own, stick to any topic you may have some knowledge of.

You have to be about the most ignorant person to debate on ATS I've come across so far.

reply to post by Tifozi
I read the report a few years ago where Europe was going to reexamine all the additives to foods because of ill effects citizens were having to these chemicals. I applaud them for their insight. Before that you guys were in the same boat we are in in the USA. It will take you guys a generation or so to get straightened out but at least your governments have taken action. Our government lets the buyer beware.

You talk about milk. In Europe the farmers raise more of the cows that are a little less productive but have less antibodies in the milk. It seems to me it's like "type A cows". or something like that. We here in the states have businesses that want the best output for the money and do things to sell their products because of knowledge that hides the truth. It can be considered antibiotic free if you introduce natural things into the feed that creates a natural antibiotic as the food sets without calling it an antibiotic. The cow still injests antibiotics with no papertrail. This deceit is part of the American way and our legal system allows for this deceit because of "the common good" percieved by people making the laws. 25 percent of all people are allergic to annato yet our government says because it is natural it may be used in food without labeling. They can list it as an ingredient voluntarily but aren't required to by law. Turmeric would be a better thing to use, it has more health benefits than problems and just a little different color.

I know lots about these things and know that the legal systems look the other way to protect industries many times. This isn't really wrong, the problem comes when chemistry is created and isn't tested long term on people sharing certain genetic traits. Society has labeled these people as having genetic flaws. Just because I haven't evolved to eat every food or chemical out there doesn't mean I have a flaw. Everyone is allergic to something. Odin made people allergic to mistletoe because the witch didn't give baldr immunity. People don't even know of their allergies, they just don't like things that they are allergic to. You're saying that foods you consider good for people are good for everyone is flawed. My daughter tries that with me all the time and I tell her to eat a piece of smoked fish. The Pyrophosphates in that are better for guys that work hard than gals. Too much is no good, but the right amount for you're needs can be healthy. The Germans developed Liverwurst to help people with certain conditions long ago. If you have problems in making blood the chemistry of the Liverwurst helps. Technology that has been cast aside by our modern world. JL french put mustard together to combine the mustard seeds with turmeric so people didn't have to stock them. That was an advancement in my book. Study the many properties of these spices and see how they help people who work hard for a living. People who work in an office don't have to worry about aches and pains.

I study the good and bad properties of food, not what people say is good. There are plenty of good research papers out on the net and many are twisted in interpretation to fit peoples perception of things. I study why they say things are good for you to see if they really are. Many times the cons outnumber the pros tenfold and their are similar things in nature that share the pros without having the side effects. Here's a good example. If you keep eating foods that are anticarcinogenic you increase you're risk of copd and heart problems. Too much Isocyanates are not good for anyone. Eat in moderation and try not to eat foods and food additives that seem too good to be true in flavor. You will start to crave those foods and not the antidotes that our body needs to neutralize toxins that are formed by consumption of everyday foods. Our ancestors knew lots, after all we are here, they brought us to this point with the help of their traditions.

If you want to eat a certain way be my guest. When you tell a friend that eating something is good for them you have little knowledge of their eating habbits. Give them a taste or pass on a recipe. don't be pushy though because sometimes people sense their allergies. Brothers and sisters can have different allergies if their parents ate different before they were born. Bloodtype differences also create differences in diets but certain recipies help neutralize the allergens. It's a really complex subject and harder to explain on a broadform basis. Each person's metabolism is unique and they have to find their own diet on their own. What's good for the goose is not always good for the gander especially if the goose is kranky(german for sick)