US-infantry, any good?

Originally posted by SKUNK2
Umm a US Marine isn't anything special, US marine is equivelant to a British rifleman, except a British rifleman gets x2 as much basic training...
Don't get me started on Royal Marine Commando's or Para's because these are far superior to even your Navy seals etc, except they are still classed as conventional forces while you in the US say they are Special forces

Not quite true, teh Royal Marines and Para's are not on teh SEAL's level. that is like saying they are as good as the SAS or SBS. The SEALS along with SFPD-D, SAS, SBS, SASR and some others are what are known as Tier 1 Special Forces, which means the very best in the world. Royal Marines and Para's would be Tier 3.
So yeah the SEAL's are equivalent to teh British SBS or the Australian SASR OAG.

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
Who knows.

One thing about Delta and the SAS is that they are both completely classified. NO ONE knows anything about Delta except Delta itself and those involved with it. Otherwise, all anyone knows is that it is elite. Pretty much the same goes for the SAS.

I once watched a Rugby match between the SAS and my Dad's REME unit, a few years back. Needless to say, the REME boy's lost, but not by much! They're not super-secret, they just don't shout about it. They did put a tarp over the perimeter fence of the camp though, so no civi's could get a any pic's of the boy's.

I did get a little intimidated when one of the SAS guy's got stroppy with my dad. My dad had finished with his water bottle during a stop in play and kicked it too touch, hitting one of the SAS guy's kids on the head....

He wasn't that impressed, shall we say!

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
You can chalk up our military's failures to the U.S. government.

The U.S. government simply doesn't realize that the U.S. military is a COMBAT force. They are not built for winning hearts and minds or being "diplomats," or for occupation. So you can't blame the infantry for that.

The U.S. government always puts our soldiers in uncompromising positions with no margin for error, situations they have no idea what to do in. Then, when the reporters ask the government officials what went wrong, they say "Evil. Satan is at work in the world."

Exactly.

The Army is designed to kill, to hell with "being diplomats" .. let the politicians fail at that on their own and leave the army out of it.

Why have we been floundering in Iraq? Because we tried to let the Army do the peace bridging because the real politicians don't have the balls to go over there, that is, outside of central Green Zone.

When it comes to actual combat, the entire US armed forces, including infantry is unbeatable.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
When it comes to actual combat, the entire US armed forces, including infantry is unbeatable.

Not quite, Rockpuk. In exercises, British forces regularly beat Us forces. Often outnumbered as well.

My brother was on the HMS Iron Duke, facing down two US destroyers and a Submarine. After some trickery, which the Yanks fell for hook, line and sinker, the Iron Duke killed the lot. The Yanks didn't know where she was.

Paddyinf and others have also stated their own experiences here which show that the US is not "unbeatable". They're good, but often you rely on overwhelming firepower and numbers to get the job done. Without this superiority in manpower, the US is beatable by quite a few nations.

s an ex Britsh soldier and having worked with the Americans

From my experience are very geared up for war...but not policing ..because at the end of the day this crap going on with the Iraquis and Afghanistan is supposed to change the regimes...and the winning of hearts and minds to a diferent way of thinking is half of the battle...just from my impession...the Mericans were a bit too Gung Ho!!

The Brits learned a lot about urban warfare in Northen Irland!! and how to deal with people in a hostile environment!!

The Brits idea is to Police and keep a low profile ..

reply to post by stumason


Wouldn't doubt it, I have a friend who was in the British Army, for some reason moved to the states.

But as an overall attacking (entire army of course) America is unmatchable. Then again we have not had a chance to see Britain leading an attack against anyone like we have done to Iraq and Afgahnistan.

As far as policing goes though, both armies have failed, and NATO is failing in Afgahnistan. Modern armies of the super powers of the world are geared for WWII fighting. Not occupation.

Now if a standing army came against an American European alliance it would be an easily won war, tactics need to change for this policing and "nation building" we are trying to do.

I hope that America can keep friendships with Europe, especially Britain so that we would never have to see our force in true combat against one another.

Not going to happen! Europe, Britain will never do that!...all forged from the same steel !!

I think the US has focused too much on getting everyone with high tech equipment. Other countries have to compensate for the lack of such a huge budget and invest more in tactics.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
The Army is designed to kill, to hell with "being diplomats" .. let the politicians fail at that on their own and leave the army out of it.

I would have to disagree with you there. The role of the Army is traditionally to close in with and kill the enemy. However, the British experiences in N. Ireland, Malaya etc have demonstrated that, when used correctly, the Army can be a very potent force while hardly firing a shot.

In Malaya for example there were small groups of soldiers in the jungle moving between villages offering medical aid and construction services to the locals. This then got them on side, allowing information about terrorist movements to be passed onto the Brits. This allowed them to mount operations that resulted in a very effective campaign.

In N. Ireland the situation was handled quite badly in the early years, with the Army using a very heavy handed approach. This resulted in very poor relations between the military and the locals, developing enemies on both sides. Much trial and error resulted in the dramatic increase in solid arrests, reduced terrorist activity, reduced murders and a better relation between the Army and many parts of the community.

There was much wailing and knashing of teeth about soldiering with one hand tied around their backs, but the fact is that a heavy hand in this type of operation will almost always result in increased terrorist recruitment, further distancing between the military and the local population and increased civillian and military deaths. Yes more terrorists die, but tha is usually because of increased numbers of terrorists due to high recruitment numbers because of heavy handed tactics.

I believe this is my first post and I feel the need to be fairly careful with my words among so many distinguished forum members.

This thread breaks my heart. The American solider combined with our steadfast British allies have done more good for the world than any other fighting force I am aware of. How many millions enjoy freedom today (hello France) because of the sacrifices of the American/British soldier?

This thread continues the tradition of maligning and bashing the American solider. I take the cheap shots, mis characterizations and out right lies personally. Having an opinion is, of course, everyone's prerogative. Speaking without knowing what your talking about is just foolish. I know it's now in vogue to belittle, impune the integrity and question the intelligence of our soldiers. It's also insulting and more importantly, factually untrue.

I'm beside myself with anger and I am doing my best to not throw jabs back to the other side. It's harder than I thought it would be when I first started typing this out.

To answer the original question: yes, the American infantry is very good. Man for man, there is no better. Are there equals, I am sure. Are there units that are better? Absolutely! I have trained with some of those units and we gave them nothing but respect and they to us. There is no other country in the world that has a an Army the size of ours, as well trained as ours.

Saying our soldiers are brutal, Neanderthals with weapons is insulting and patently untrue - no matter how in vogue and hip bashing them appears to be to others.

A soldiers job is not a nice one !! sounds great to start of ...then when you become one its not that good at all..

Anyone that has served will understand the mentality Anerican or British...Like I said it was a relatively good job in a fairly stable environment ...you had a good Idea who the baddies were ...this scenario is very different,...and this typr of war brutalises..because of the need to survive...every soldier knows they cannot trust the people they are trying to protect...and that screws with the mind!!

I think both are as good as each other...pointless to argue...both are doing a difficult job a very unusual conflict ...

The Americans should get the job the get out and the Brits restore order!
That would be a good combination....the Americans have the fire power the brits have the way of dealing with people without upsetting things too much and getting some order!! I don't think there is any need for continually bombing the crap out of a country...

That is my opinion...

It really is a crap job no matter with army you are in in wartime!!
and they are all doing their best to cope !! and survive!

Rockpuck, Americans are unbeatable oh really, so Vietnam, Korea, and now Iraq yes I see what you mean they were all magnificent victories wern't they. If US troops do have a flaw it is their over confidence in relying on technology to do the job for them as demonstrated in Vietnam and Iraq 2 coulped with their shoot anybody and then look to see who you have shot.

It has been said before but I will say it again. A US soldier, infact any soldier, is just that, a soldier. They(We) are trained to kill the enemy. However they(we) are not trained to go out and paint schools, build roads, plant corn, so on and so on. Then put on top of that, the fact that any car, any person, hell even any rock could be a bomb. Then add the fact that the politicans back home dont know WTF reality is and are trying to pass laws 'for the good of the soldier' but infact it only makes there job all that more hard and dangerous. Combine all of that and you get the situation in Iraq today.

Now when it comes to the question: Is the US Military the best in the world? The answer to that question is Yes and No.

Now, I have owrked with several different soldiers from different countries and I have the upmost respect for them all. Now, with that said, the soldiers I have the most respect for are the British SAS. Their professionalism is the best I've ever seen, I think they give US Marines a run for there money. I have only worked with them a few times, there is no other group I would rather trust with my life than the SAS.

PS: I cant give details.

Also don't forget the United States' dogs of war are kept on a tight leash but if need be they can be let off the chain

I would think that everyone could see that you can't win a Politically correct war but having said that we are doing a fine job Politically correct or not...



US Marine corps "Semper Fi" Happy belated Birthday to all you Marines
US Army "This We'll Defend"
US Navy Paratus Et Potens
US air Force "Un Ab Alto"
US Coast Guard "Semper Paratus"

Respectfully
GEO

reply to post by magicmushroom


Those were political defeats if anything- certainly in Vietnam, where the military never lost a single major battle.

reply to post by The_Jackal94

US marines are not even in the same league as the SAS, to say so shows your blind ignorance.
SAS are among the best SF'S in the world with the SBS being the best, US marines are just infantry at best.

Im sorry, I didnt really word that well. I ment to say that the SAS gives the US Marines a run for there money when it comes to discipline and there professionalism. I know that they are in two different legues. But the Marines are known for there high discipline and there professionalism. I was just saying that the SAS is also very very good in that area. I ment no disrespect.

Oh, and the best SF's in the world( you really cant say that one is the best, so I just grouped them all together) are:

Special Air Service Regiment (SAS)- UK

1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta (Delta Force)- US Army

National Gendarmes Intervention Group (GIGN)- France

United States Navy Sea, Air and Land (SEAL)- US Navy

Grenzschutzgruppe 9 (GSG9)- Germany

Special Forces (Green Berets)- US Army

French Foreign Legion- France

Kommando Spezialkraefte (KSK)- Germany

Spetsialnoje Naznachenie (Spetznaz)- Russia

United States Navy Special Warfare Development Group (DEVGRU ,SEAL Team 6)- US Navy



These are the best in the world and all share the #1 spot for "Worlds best Specail Forces Unit".

Think I'll nip this in the bud before we get into yet another willies out, my-daddys-bigger-than-your-daddy "best special forces" thread

Best special forces 1

here's another

and another

yet another

Starting to see a pattern? You'll notice how they all get a bit repetative and boring quite quickly.

This is a thread about the US Infantry, not Special Forces. Lets' keep it there, shall we.