US-infantry, any good?

Originally posted by Klepto
It had alwayz been my impression that a sniper was a military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldierz from a concealed place.. guess I was wrong then.

Yeah, that's what they do, but rarely do they get to actually perform a sharpshooting mission. There are snipers in Iraq right now, but they're just serving as part of a squad. Their AG has probably got his SAW pointed out the same window the M24 is. It's not sniping just because they have sniper rifles. In fact, since they're such good shots, they should be saving the ammo and just using M4s, like everyone else.

Originally posted by highash
My uncle fought with the selous Scouts in Rhodesia in the late 70's (he latter fought with south african sf's (can't remember the regiment but will ask my da) in angola and mozambique before joining the legion. He always stated tha the best fghting men he had ever fought with were the scouts (black and white). I know that they don't exist anymore and fought a loosing war in zimbabwe but I just thought I would add that for thought.

As far as COIN goes in Africa, these guys wrote the book, they came so close to getting Mugabe a couple of times. I've read several books on the Scouts and their daring is almost unbelievable.
Did your Uncle take part in the radi on Chimio ( I think thats how it's spelt ), over 1000 insurgents KIA in a cross boarder raid. If you can post any more inforamtion about your uncle I'd be very intersted.

I,m not sure about Chimio, the fact is that my uncle isn't the kind of guy who went to too many family do's. Most of the stories (although not all) are second hand accounts by my dad or hearing stories when I was too young to really understand what was going on. I do know that he was involved on the attack on a terrorist base in mozambique called Nyadziona(?) where they demolished the joint.

sorry but im quite confused as to what the topic is now.

Originally posted by The_Squid
sorry but im quite confused as to what the topic is now.

After reading the entire topic, it appears to have started out about the quality of the US Army. Later the subject turned to Special Forces of the world, then to some sort of contest to see who has the biggest pen�err�which country has the best Special Forces. After that mad scientist and devilwasp decided to have their own personal pissing contest. Currently the subject seems to be snipers and chicks with huge guns (and by huge guns I mean ****ing anti-armor rifles).

Originally posted by Aviator
After that mad scientist and devilwasp decided to have their own personal pissing contest.

personaly i call it an arguement but if you want to call it that go ahead.
also so what we had an argument over who's country had better SF, if you think its to childish then just dont post there.

Originally posted by Aviator

Originally posted by The_Squid
sorry but im quite confused as to what the topic is now.

Currently the subject seems to be snipers and chicks with huge guns (and by huge guns I mean ****ing anti-armor rifles).

Well I certainly think there should be more chicks with huge, ehrm guns

hmmm, this topic is getting a bit boring now, well... if u can call it a topic, since its SO far away from it...

Originally posted by thesaint
I served in the first Gulf alongside the Americans and also in Bosnia. I was then part of a British Infantary Battalion. We were so pissed with the Americans in Bosnia. For instance we had to paint the roof of our (camoflauged) vehicles Lumonious orange just so the Americans would not take shots at us but did it stop them ? did it hell. They used to go out on routine patrols and for some reason cause absolute havoc and in the end we would get crashed out to go and deal with it. We in the British Army are also trained on the hearts and mind side of things aswell (as proven in iraq) however the yanks are bloody cowboys. They may have all the latest fancy kit but not really good at soldiering as far as im concerned from my experience with them. Just my opinion.

well Saint at least they are not a bunch of beret wearing pansies, who need some one to fight its battles for it , my cousin used to be a101airborne Div pathfinder he's now a ranger he has trained with u clowns and do u know that he calls exercises with you duck hunts cuz youre like ducks so easy to whack,while you quack

Hey devilwasp, in an earlier post on this thread, you mentioned something like, "The U.S. has OK forces, and their Ranger and Delta units are pretty good....etc....etc...." then you said about how bad-ass Marine Force Recon was and Marines are; you're right, Marine Recon is very good, but Delta Force is the U.S.'s equivalent of the British SAS.

So I mean unless you're implying that the SAS is just "pretty good" as well, then don't imply that Delta is that. Delta Force is the elite of the elite of the elite of the U.S. military.

Like I said, it was based off of the British SAS. It is essentially the American equivalent.

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
Hey devilwasp, in an earlier post on this thread, you mentioned something like, "The U.S. has OK forces, and their Ranger and Delta units are pretty good....etc....etc...." then you said about how bad-ass Marine Force Recon was and Marines are; you're right, Marine Recon is very good, but Delta Force is the U.S.'s equivalent of the British SAS.

So I mean unless you're implying that the SAS is just "pretty good" as well, then don't imply that Delta is that. Delta Force is the elite of the elite of the elite of the U.S. military.

Like I said, it was based off of the British SAS. It is essentially the American equivalent.

Ha, omg man, i havent seen this thread in like months. Wow, am I really still like that?

I dont hold the SAS in any high regard myself, they are a good regiment and frankly kick ass but not in my opinion the best.
Delta are good, but i dont really know a lot about them.
Why are people bringing these dead threads back to life?
Are people just going throuhg the old ones to start them up again?

Who knows.

One thing about Delta and the SAS is that they are both completely classified. NO ONE knows anything about Delta except Delta itself and those involved with it. Otherwise, all anyone knows is that it is elite. Pretty much the same goes for the SAS.

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
Who knows.

One thing about Delta and the SAS is that they are both completely classified. NO ONE knows anything about Delta except Delta itself and those involved with it. Otherwise, all anyone knows is that it is elite. Pretty much the same goes for the SAS.

Delta operators are recruited from the cream of the infantry, SF, and Ranger ranks. Delta switched there name a few years back as well. I haven't heard what it was changed to, but they still operate and I am sure these days they are busier than ever.

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
Who knows.

One thing about Delta and the SAS is that they are both completely classified. NO ONE knows anything about Delta except Delta itself and those involved with it. Otherwise, all anyone knows is that it is elite. Pretty much the same goes for the SAS.

Quite a few SAS troopers have given information about the regiment and its purpose to the public, ruining its "stealth" status and throwing them into the lime light, although this is a double edged sword.
The SBS actually use the SAS as a shield to thier existance, many drug raids in london where done by SBS but since the tabloids dont know who the SBS are they naturally think its the SAS.
sneaky huh?

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
You can chalk up our military's failures to the U.S. government.

The U.S. government simply doesn't realize that the U.S. military is a COMBAT force. They are not built for winning hearts and minds or being "diplomats," or for occupation. So you can't blame the infantry for that.

The U.S. government always puts our soldiers in uncompromising positions with no margin for error, situations they have no idea what to do in. Then, when the reporters ask the government officials what went wrong, they say "Evil. Satan is at work in the world."

You've hit it right on the spot. Despite the SUCCESS in Iraq and Afghanistan, we still could be doing so much better. Bush isn't letting the generals do their job. Bush is trying to turn our boys into Blue Helmets, as I see it.

Best Spec Ops in the world is TAG West. (Australia)
They are selected from the ASAS. TAG East is not quite as good its members come from ASAS and 4RAR.

I also think that no other regular infantry would stand up to Australian Army and Reserves on home soil out in the bush. I would like to see a company of marines stand up to a company of regular australian soldiers with only what they could carry no tanks air support nothing.

Originally posted by marinefan
well Saint at least they are not a bunch of beret wearing pansies, who need some one to fight its battles for it , my cousin used to be a101airborne Div pathfinder he's now a ranger he has trained with u clowns and do u know that he calls exercises with you duck hunts cuz youre like ducks so easy to whack,while you quack

Just notices this post by that prat. Shame he's banned, becuse I'd have love to ask him about the last exercise I was in with 101st airborne in 2002 during an exchange visit in Fort Cambell, Kentucky. Despite being massively under equipped compared to the septics, we ran rings around them. Their fire and manouevre was slow, their lack of initiative was staggering and their reliance on technological support was worrying.

Don't get me wrong, they were supreme fighters and very professional. However they were too bogged down with over complicating problems and making highly detailed plans that rarely survived first contact. After this, the rigid command structure was slow to react, causing potential casualties.

The exercise went well and we were impressed with many of the skills displayed by the fighting troops. The problems seemed to come from higher up the command chain, which slowed reactions and hindered the progress of the troops on the ground. I couldn't help but think that if they were let off the leash a bit more the troops on the ground could have achieved a bit more. On the ground a firefight is a section commanders battle, and that did not seem to be acknowledged by the hierarchy.

these lessons are now being learned the hard way by the boys in Iraq. More initiative is being shown by junior commanders. Many of the earlier problems have been overcome and they are now working well.

Having served in the Marines...We were trained to kill. Simple. Not to hand out candy, not to smile,not to make friends. we were trained to kill the enemy, so that others wouldnt have to get their hands dirty,Marines joke a lot, drink a lot, do some very dumb things(ask any corpsman), but when the green light turns on they are killers.

Originally posted by tac109
Having served in the Marines...We were trained to kill. Simple. Not to hand out candy, not to smile,not to make friends. we were trained to kill the enemy, so that others wouldnt have to get their hands dirty,Marines joke a lot, drink a lot, do some very dumb things(ask any corpsman), but when the green light turns on they are killers.

Umm a US Marine isn't anything special, US marine is equivelant to a British rifleman, except a British rifleman gets x2 as much basic training...
Don't get me started on Royal Marine Commando's or Para's because these are far superior to even your Navy seals etc, except they are still classed as conventional forces while you in the US say they are Special forces

reply to post by PaddyInf


Your absolutely right. We trained with the US Marines in Battle Griffin '05, their biggest problems seemed to be related to slow reaction times to changing situations and the the general attitude that every patrol had to have an officer and they hardly ever patrolled in sub platoon sized units.

I think US (all branches) should take a long hard look at their leadership and command structure. Giving a little more trust and responsibility to NCOs would make the entire force run smoother and improve the flexibility. One main thing would be to give out "commanders general ideas" out to NCO level, so that they could improvise if needed in order get the job done. If you just order: "move to A1 and wait for orders" a simple communications cut could render the force useless for a while...