Tired of the Ron Paul Bandwagon???

Originally posted by open_eyeballs


how ridiculous. It indeed does and would work...as it had for all of the 18th &19th century and half of the 20th ...you know...when europe was continuously at war and.

Hmmmm.......

The two governments have set aside past disagreements and adopted a common policy on numerous international issues. They also now closely coordinate mutually supporting policies on regional security, nuclear security, Afghanistan, and development assistance. As US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton rightly noted during the recent visit of South Korean Foreign Minister Kim Sung-hwan: ‘Our partnership truly has gone global.’

The trouble is that this harmony has actually worsened ties between South Korea, the United States and important third parties, such as North Korea and China. These states fear that a US-South Korean partnership will harm their own regional interests, and could potentially provoke North Korea. With this in mind, are Washington and Seoul really likely to keep prioritizing bilateral ties at the expense of other actors?

Relations between the US and South Korea have been steadily warming. The problem is, it could push North Korea into even worse behaviour.

So if we keep diplomatic ties only,it looks like North Korea would see that as a threat ALSO. Looks like North Korea views ALL actions of the US,with angry eyes. You cant win with North Korea. Bugging out,would give them a reason to "try" and take South Korea by force. They eat,breath and sleep,South Koreas downfall.

Originally posted by type0civ
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

If you're wrong it will cost the lives of Tens of thousands upwards to possibility Millions. Right now, there are one or two a years killed in the ONGOING Korean Conflict.

South korea is not a thrird world country with no defense and the argument by the OP is that WE...the USA will be endangered by the FP of RP....the argument is not other countries but you all keep acting as if these are our territories.

Get it straight...will his foreign policy weaken and endanger us or other countries?

And if you wake up anytime soon, you will see that the status quo is costing tens of thousands of lives....if not millions.



Pick an argument and stick with it. Stop changing it up.

edit on 23-1-2012 by type0civ because: (no reason given)

MY ARGUMENT HASN'T CHANGED. YES, RP'S FP WILL AFFECT US AND OTHER COUNTRIES WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!!! RP's golden rule is ignorant in-fact almost ridiculous to believe can work in today's times

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by mrgregbusybee

 

30k American soldiers are stopping 1 million North Korean soldiers?

The "presence" of 30k troops,is stopping 1 million North Korean soldiers. For 50+ years.

America walks away,and the North would most likely attack. Its the vacuum of the US leaving.

Its the most protected area for Americas Foreign Interest.

ding ding ding...you sir see the big picture. thanks.....

Originally posted by type0civ
South korea is not a thrird world country with no defense and the argument by the OP is that WE...the USA will be endangered by the FP of RP....the argument is not other countries but you all keep acting as if these are our territories.

What part of my earlier replies did you fail to read?

North Korea has demonstrated that they are developing Missile technology that reach Hawaii. South Korea has agreed to station our troops there. It makes North Korea think twice and civilians in the region and at home sleep well knowing somebody is standing watch.

Get it straight...will his foreign policy weaken and endanger us or other countries?

Get this straight.
The Blanket approach to foreign policy is DOA!

And if you wake up anytime soon, you will see that the status quo is costing tens of thousands of lives....if not millions.

Tell that to the Tens of Millions alive today.

reply to post by SLAYER69
but if i am right there would be peace, is giving peace a chance worth less than 2 lives, one life lost in an ongoing conflict is one to many when the act of pulling out could bring peace, an act if I was the Pres, or a risk I would be willing to take.

reply to post by mrgregbusybee


Your only example of a weaker US is war in another country......that and the scenerio from a tom clancy novel of all the asians getting us. Go to bed already.

Ron Paul is the only candidate who has taken a stand against the current NDAA and the "indefinite detention without charges" of American citizens.

When we're fighting for the very soul of our Bill of Rights, all other concerns are secondary.

reply to post by mrgregbusybee


who is a socialist? point him out so we can throw rocks at him!

I just had to reply to this absolutely ridiculous thread. You think its okay for us to be stationed in over 100 other countries around the world? You say that's its for the sake of protecting ourselves? Maybe we should have multiple cops patrolling every neighborhood to make sure "nothing bad happens" in them. Most other countries "dislike" us because of our elitist attitude. We think we can patrol any country we want because "we're so tough" and those countries dislike that attitude (and the fact were in their countries). If North Korea wants to invade South Korea they can go ahead, but you know what? South Korea is MORE (emphasis on the MORE) militarily equipped than North Korea. The fact that you believe North Korea could overtake South Korea is proof that you really have no idea what your talking about.

In regards to the whole Middle East conflict. It would really benefit you if you read up on some of the history of our involvement there since the Cold War. Really puts it in perspective as to why they hate us and why we SHOULDN'T be there.

If our soldiers were here in America, where they belong, then we would be able to defend ourselves. Do you realize how much we spend just feeding soldiers in other countries? That doesn't take into account all the other expenses with being militarily equipped overseas. Soldiers would be able to mobilize from this country if there were a threat from a foreign country and devote more resources to that effort. If another country even attempted to start something nuclear we are more than equipped to utterly obliterate them before they attacked us.

There is no perfect president, but at least I know Ron Paul has stood by his beliefs longer than any other candidate and isn't corrupt (at least from what we see).

reply to post by mrgregbusybee


Do you not understand that all the other candidates if they get in they will just be puppets to the new world order and do what ever they are told? Are you really that blind and deceived to think they would really do anything different than the status-quo which is leading America to become a failed nation? Ron Paul is the only man that will not be told what to do and is the only incorruptible guy.

If you want another Bush or Obama go ahead and vote for the other candidates, you will be sorry after you see they are bureaucrat shills for the banking elite. When will the sheeple wake up and smell the coffee ?

Originally posted by ping9
reply to post by mrgregbusybee

 

I understand where you're coming from and how you can believe we are past the point of no return. But here's my thing, I believe we should strive to give our children a better America and for that matter a better world and every day we occupy some foreign land this becomes less of a probability. I think our main point of disagreement is that you are thinking short-term and I am thinking long-term. Short-term we can depress the people wanting to harm us, but long-term we've created more of a threat. Just hit a reset buttons of sorts and leave everyone alone, if they mess with us they are done.

Also, for you to ask if Ron Paul has the courage the "hit the button" while at the same time defending that coward Gingrich is sick.

I'm not defending gingrich...i am not on his train. i do like some of the things he stands for and i think he's smart enough to out think obama's campaign...but i think he's a narcissistic asshole that's too blunt and arrogant to be diplomatic when we need that from our president. i think he has the balls to go to war when needed and wouldn't take the approach of.... let's talk about this first even though we've been punched in the nose....with that being said, i'd really like to take half of RP and add gingriche's no BS attitude and put Santorium in office because i think he has good morals and family values and actually cares about getting our people back to work...etc. in RPs defense, he cares also and again, he makes sense and has a lot of good policies....i just can't sign-off on the man as president from his golden rule approach.

a reset button my friend is exactly what i wish we had...unfortunately we don't. and i appreciate you're looking into the future for our children and country and world....i do respect that and respect your opinions and discussion. you're a very diplomatic, intelligent and sensible man, thank you for that btw....and i agree i'm looking at next 4 years only and i'm honestly afraid that it's already too late because of obama. he's manipulated the constitution so badly that if we don't get him out of office....he may be the last president we ever elect. i think this election may be one of the most important ones in our history. i also think for the next 8 years at least (it'll take 2 terms of the same president to make a significant change) we need to remain a strong and strategically placed military to keep our enemies at bay until we can right our own ship....i don't think the golden rule is what can do that at this particular time....

To the OP, you said if we moved troops out of South Korea, North Korea would invade them.

Like I said earlier, the last time there was North and South Korea drama, China quashed it. They have business interests in South Korea

If you guys think China is going to give up their capitalist traits and economic dominance for control, you're being too cute.

I take it most people here don't want to China getting ahead of us (which they already have in SOME ways). The more time we spend worrying about other nations with our military and money, the less we worry about our economic dominance. You want to maintain #1??? You need to shift focus from military might to economic might.

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

but if i am right there would be peace, is giving peace a chance worth less than 2 lives, one life lost in an ongoing conflict is one to many when the act of pulling out could bring peace, an act if I was the Pres, or a risk I would be willing to take.

edit on 23-1-2012 by bekod because: editting

Sorry,but I have to interject............

On September 22nd, Chamberlain flew to Bad Godesberg to meet Hitler so that the final details of the plan could be worked out. At this meeting Hitler made new demands that took Chamberlain by surprise. Hitler wanted German troops to occupy the Sudetenland. He also demanded that land containing a majority of Poles and Magyars should also be returned to Poland and Hungary. Britain and France rejected these demands and both the French and British governments prepared for war.

Chamberlain had returned to Croydon Airport near London as a hero; the man who saved peace in Europe. His "Piece of Paper" , signed both by Chamberlain and Hitler, was later called a "scrap of paper" by Hitler.

The Czech Crisis of 1938


Appeasement NEVER works,Mr Chamberlain found that out,all too well.


History shows it,unfortunately.

reply to post by mrgregbusybee


I love how neo-cons try to justify this culture of constant war that accomplishes very little.

Do you care to tell us how we're going to continue to pay for these 900-something bases we have around the world?
Do you care to tell us how we're going to prevent another 9/11 when we're already sowing the seeds for another one?

I don't support Ron Paul either but if there's anything I dislike more than RP, it's the neo-cons!

reply to post by SLAYER69

North Korea has demonstrated that they are developing Missile technology that reach Hawaii. South Korea has agreed to station our troops there. It makes North Korea think twice and civilians in the region and at home sleep well knowing somebody is standing watch.

30,000 US soldiers at the DMZ cant stop that missile. But a patriot missile battery in Hawaii might. And NK lobs rounds down south without thinking twice, so it's already a moot point....next.

Get this straight. The Blanket approach to foreign policy is DOA!

The current policy is such a success, right? Covert action followed by blowback and then we liberate and educate. We'll teach them to like us by precision predator strikes.

Tell that to the Tens of Millions alive today.

And you tell it to the dead ones.

reply to post by sonnny1


I just do not believe this. I used to until I spoke to many Koreans. I value their opinions and have therefore changed mine.

Those Koreans I spoke to have far greater animosity toward the US (and Russia, though to a lesser extent), than to the North. They are none to happy about the dictators propped up by the US in the South. They have long memories.

First of all get your facts straight, Ron Paul is not against gays getting married or pro-drugs as u explained it. He is against the government deciding these issues for us. You have been misled by the media to believe that he is for or against certain topics. Watch when news castors ask him questions or comment on what he says, they always present him as dangerous or they say he just flat out can't be president. I like Ron Paul because he is the only candidate addressing issues that affect me, listen to everyone else, every single other candidate is saying they will put sanctions on Iran or do whatever it takes to establish america as the top world power again. This is the perception that America should be put before everything else in the world. Sanctions will deprive the Iranians of food and water, and war could possibly kill us all. China and Russia will side with Iran.

Originally posted by type0civ
reply to post by mrgregbusybee

 

Your only example of a weaker US is war in another country......that and the scenerio from a tom clancy novel of all the asians getting us. Go to bed already.

Read your history genius. By re-deploying all our troops back to America and vacating foreign bases, we in-turn will be closing a blind eye to the countries that are our confirmed and acknowledged enemies. According to RP and his golden rule. This absolutely makes us a weaker country without a doubt. Turn your head for 4 years, pay no attention to only those 3 countries and see what happens. Who made the computer you are typing on....?? LOL...these countries can hurt us economically before ever firing a bullet genius. If you don't believe these things can happen, you haven't read your history or know enough to comment intelligently. do you not think Japan would drop a bomb on DC tomorrow if they could and had support behind them? What about China? Wake up hippie

You'd turn your back on our allies because what...f*ck it...they can defend themselves...who cares...it's not us getting killed...??? that's your approach? We have these foreign bases in place for a reason and if nothing else than to remind motherfu*kers we're still here....don't f*ck up. You bring everyone home and allow free reign every where else in the world....we are destined to receive a very rude awakening one day in your lifetime.

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by sonnny1

 

I just do not believe this. I used to until I spoke to many Koreans. I value their opinions and have therefore changed mine.

Those Koreans I spoke to have far greater animosity toward the US (and Russia, though to a lesser extent), than to the North. They are none to happy about the dictators propped up by the US in the South. They have long memories.

edit on 23-1-2012 by InvisibleAlbatross because: (no reason given)

Hmmmm.......

Can you ask them then "why" hasnt the South Koreans set a time table to have the Americans,withdraw from South Korea?


We have been there 50+ years.................I think a timetable is in order,if that's how they feel.

reply to post by mrgregbusybee


Your choices for president are reason enough to not bother talking to you. So what if you don't like Ron Paul you have one vote like the rest of us who dare to think differently than you do