Kansas slashes food aid for children of illegal immigrants

It is, unfortunately, true that the US and Mexican governments collude to encourage immigration, because the employers can earn a bigger profit.

Mexican nationals often send their money back home and that counts as receipts for the Mexican govt. Meanwhile they get paid under the table here in the States and do not pay income tax. That is why Calderone and Fox before him approved. So that has nothing to do with big business. In the States they may get paid lower wages because it's under the table and so the employer does not have to do withholding. So again, it's about taxes isn't it? It's about taxes and regulations on benefits. And I already told you last night that the US still pays higher wages than Mexico. And I cited the Carnegie Endowment Fund for that, since you question my sources and accuse me of being a foreign national.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

So your answer to working with other countries is to give their Nationals a safe haven in the States.

Horus, please.
My point in this thread is that those children are citizens. They are not foreign nationals, by US law, they are citizens.
I don't know how else to say it. I am not condoning the infiltration of trouble-makers, thieves, freeloaders, drug-cartel leaders. I try to see to the roots of the problems.

I have not said give the parents "safe haven". I have said it is imperative to set an example and encourage ethical treatment of citizens in their own homelands, so that they do not feel the desperate need to flee.

Hi Wildtimes
I agree with your thoughts on this subject. People cheat at times, and lie. Regardless, we cannot let children suffer because of the dishonesty of an adult parent.

Please people, if you know of those who are abusing the system REPORT THEM.

Every state has a fraud hot line for this purpose. Use it.

In the meantime, we have to do the decent thing by feeding the hungry. Our country is way too opulent to allow that to occur. Whether you like admitting it or not. We have an abundance of food in our country and there is no reason for anyone to go hungry.

Bon jour.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Your assumption that they "all" work under the table is incorrect, Horus. Did you read through the posts that elucidate that?
Did you read through the very last of the links I posted?
The majority of those immigrants work for minimum wage paychecks out of which taxes are taken, and those taxes contribute $7 billion dollars a year to Social Security.

Please, try to see both sides of the coin, and to recognize that foreign policy and domestic policy (including turning a blind eye to the plight of the citizens of BOTH nations) are the roots of the problem. Desperate people do desperate things. Excessively greedy people do ruthless things in the name of increasing their own wealth and keeping their 'investors' happy, while disregarding the suffering of those who are the victims of their actions.

Peace

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Your assumption that they "all" work under the table is incorrect, Horus. Did you read through the posts that elucidate that?
Did you read through the very last of the links I posted?
The majority of those immigrants work for minimum wage paychecks out of which taxes are taken, and those taxes contribute $7 billion dollars a year to Social Security.

Please, try to see both sides of the coin, and to recognize that foreign policy and domestic policy (including turning a blind eye to the plight of the citizens of BOTH nations) are the roots of the problem. Desperate people do desperate things. Excessively greedy people do ruthless things in the name of increasing their own wealth and keeping their 'investors' happy, while disregarding the suffering of those who are the victims of their actions.

Peace

If they are illegal, than either they are working under the table or they stole a social security number, that's how that works. If they are not illegal, or attained citizenship, another story.

Oh, while I am thinking about it, here is another thread with discussion of Obamanomics, and someone posted statistics on the "Food Stamp President". Icing on the cake for me and Rush.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by apollo7keep
I agree with your points about how bad a situation it is for these people, and how they are coming to this country out of desperation. However, my question to you is why is it right for them to dump their problems onto U.S. citizens? If they were in such a destitute situation, I would think the only logical thing, if they cared about their family so much, would be to not have children in the first place! What right do they have to come to a foreign country, have a child, and then demand that every citizen of said foreign country takes care of their children? I hope other states follow Kansas' lead on this issue.

I agree. I too am fully against starving a child, but come on! These Illegals spend a few thousand to get here, and then expect a broke America to feed them all? America can barely afford to feed our own children, folks. How about a public announcement to Mexico, telling them there will be no Food Stamps or Medicaid for Illegals? A better idea is force the Illegals back home, at any cost, and enforce our Border with Troops. A do nothing government made this problem, I think these billionaire Congressmen and Senators can pony up to pay for it.

I do have a question though for you Wildtimes. What are the codes and guidelines you use for applications for food stamps? SInce you know that they are children of illegals, is it INS who sets the code by which you grant the citizen children of illegals food stamps? Or is is some other guideline set by the govt? Or no guideline at all, just your personal discrimination or that of another govt official?

reply to post by wildtimes


If they are here illegally, then the term "immigrant" is a ruse to confuse the issue. If they have a worker's permit, then they are here on a visa. If they overstayed their visa and ICE hasn't figured it out, then they are in a gray area.

If you are helping the parents of these children obtain food stamps, that is one thing, and if you are helping grown children of illegals who are working, that is also another thing. I didn't catch which one you are discussing or if you are doing both. If the children are grown up and working, and considered citizens by INS guidelines, then of course you are obviously working within the law and they are doubtless working or out of a job.

But the question then becomes, why are we allowing people to come here and never become citizens but their children become automatic citizens? This is clearly the loophole being used by foreigners. I happen to know a Russian family who had a child here, and they had to file with the INS and have a sponsor family here and go through everything legal to stay, but the child was considered a citizen. And now they are all citizens through the legal process, and the Grandmother now too.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


When I was helping people fill out applications, I was a parent educator and case worker. I was not and never have been a bureaucrat, nor have I worked for ANY state-run agency that made those policies.

I used the local application, and assisted the families in answering the questions truthfully. At that time (prior to 2006), the state system that oversaw the applications had clear policies to award food stamps only to the children in the household who were legitimate citizens, born here.

The parents who were not documented were not counted in the family's need. Any children who were non-citizens were likewise not included in the family's need. ONLY the citizen children were considered, and the householders received ONLY the portion of assistance that was directly entitled to those citizen children.

I did not decide who got benefits or who did not. I merely helped them fill out the applications truthfully.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

When I was helping people fill out applications, I was a parent educator and case worker. I was not and never have been a bureaucrat, nor have I worked for ANY state-run agency that made those policies.

I used the local application, and assisted the families in answering the questions truthfully. At that time (prior to 2006), the state system that oversaw the applications had clear policies to award food stamps only to the children in the household who were legitimate citizens, born here.

The parents who were not documented were not counted in the family's need. Any children who were non-citizens were likewise not included in the family's need. ONLY the citizen children were considered, and the householders received ONLY the portion of assistance that was directly entitled to those citizen children.

I did not decide who got benefits or who did not. I merely helped them fill out the applications truthfully.

Of course it is obvious that the children would be awarded the food stamps. I am guessing it is the parents who control that, unless their children are grown....

but thank you for answering my question.

Originally posted by angeldoll
Hi Wildtimes
I agree with your thoughts on this subject. People cheat at times, and lie. Regardless, we cannot let children suffer because of the dishonesty of an adult parent.

Please people, if you know of those who are abusing the system REPORT THEM.

Every state has a fraud hot line for this purpose. Use it.

In the meantime, we have to do the decent thing by feeding the hungry. Our country is way too opulent to allow that to occur. Whether you like admitting it or not. We have an abundance of food in our country and there is no reason for anyone to go hungry.

Bon jour.

We are well on our way to not being so opulent due to so much mismanagement by politicians and lawmakers. Haven't you heard the news of our credit rating being downgraded and us having an unsustainable amount of debt and unfunded liabilities and even borrowing from China so we can buy their manufactured goods from businesses which moved there to get away from the regulations?
See the thread with the chart on how many more people are unemployed since Obama got in office?

Anyway, I want to clarify my position as an anti-Statist, and I found a blog by a woman with knowledge of economics. I was startled by the statistics of socialist Zimbabwe, but it's more evidence that socialism doesn't work and actually makes things worse.

ginacobb.typepad.com...

I am wondering of the OP's position here is that children of illegals are more deserving of State aid because our evil empire 'stole" the land of their ancestors, or if OP is an advocate of all children's rights.


The original article states this

Now, they get nothing. Neither do hundreds of other Kansas families who, like Pedro’s, are a mix of undocumented immigrants and U.S. citizens.

Read more here: www.kansascity.com...=cpy

but goes on to focus on children of illegals in a somewhat slanted view

At a time when Gov. Sam Brownback has vowed to reduce child poverty, the Kansas Department of Social and Rehabilitation Services — a state agency the governor controls — made a policy change that eliminated food stamps for hundreds of low-income U.S. children whose parents are illegal immigrants

Read more here: www.kansascity.com...=cpy

Looks like the article was written to oppose the governor as an evil jerk while making a case for illegals.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

OP is an advocate of all children's rights.

YES

THAT ^^^
and against oppression, excessive wealthy, and contrived poverty and want.
Thanks for asking.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

OP is an advocate of all children's rights.

YES

THAT ^^^
and against oppression, excessive wealthy, and contrived poverty and want.
Thanks for asking.

Well, you should be giving credit where credit is due on the "contrived poverty" issue. Sounds more like you are making a case for increasing taxes on the wealthy, and/or capping wealth arbitrarily, which again is typical of this administration and it's supporters, mainly that of pushing soicalism and redistribution of the wealth, and you ignore the deliberate attempts of this admin to create a new class of dependents on the State while demonizing teh private sector. And are you a public servant as well?

reply to post by wildtimes


My point is that there would not be hungry children ANYWHERE, of ANY nationality, here or abroad, if the global financial system was not exploiting people. The fake SS cards are sold to the immigrants, and the immigrants know that the employers who prefer to hire them because they are more vulnerable (i.e. afraid of deportation), and the employers can get away with doing less to ensure the wellbeing of those families.

The US and Mexican governments actively entice illegal immigrants to enter this country and to work illegally for profit-hungry U.S. employers. Poverty-stricken immigrants , who are often desperate to house and feed their families, respond to the financial enticements...and then are blamed by U.S. citizenry for illegally being in the US.

The US and Mexican governments actively entice illegal immigrants to enter this country and to work illegally for profit-hungry U.S. employers. Poverty-stricken immigrants , who are often desperate to house and feed their families, respond to the financial enticements...and then are blamed by U.S. citizenry for illegally being in the US.

Now please pay attention to the following if you don't read anything else that I've posted:

But here's the rub. In 1999, under President Bill Clinton, the US government collected $3.69 million in fines from 890 companies for employing undocumented workers. In 2004, under President George Bush, the federal government collected $188,500 from 64 companies for such illegal employment practices. And in 2004, the Bush Administration levied NO fines for US companies employing undocumented workers.

In 21st-century America, it's an unspoken agreement between employer, the undocumented employee and the federal government: the employee provides acceptable ID that appears authentic, the employer asks no questions, and the US government looks the other way. Fake ID...Social Security cards, US permanent residency cards (i.e. "green cards"), US temporary employment authorization cards....are readily available for about $100 to $200 in every major American city,and plenty of smaller ones, too.

Wrote reporter Eduardo Porter in an April 5, 2005 New York Times article, "Currently available for about $150 on street corners in just about any immigrant neighborhood in California, a typical fake ID package includes a green card and a Social Security card. It provides cover for employers, who, if asked, can plausibly assert that they believe all their workers are legal."

That is how it works. It's a conspiracy of monumental proportions.
peace

The chilren that the governor is cutting aid from are U.S. Citizens

2nd.

reply to post by wildtimes


You are still advocating a socialist redistributionist solution instead of the private sector because obviously the private sector cannot take care of all the children of the world even though my search did turn up 14 million 400 thousand results for Christian missionaries which support children.
You are also blaming the private sector as the cause of all the suffering of the little children.

Again, you are clearly stating that if only the wealthy would stop being so selfish, all the little children would forever be taken care of in the idyllic world of Ameritopia, and it is also seemingly a case for World totalitarianism and a One World Govt. That is where it is leading us, although perhaps you haven't followed the logical conclusion.

I might add that there is nothing in the bible which suggests that forced redistribution by the State is Christian or even charitable.


Here is the statement of Paul in Corinthians

American King James Version
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profits me nothing.

source: scripturetext.com...

and from Matthew

Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
.

Matthew 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

source: www.topical-bible-studies.org...

reply to post by wildtimes


So, those evil corporations are hurting all those poor people by employing them but they are evil because they are "profiting" off their backs and thus causing all the problems of the starving poor? Is this some kind of liberal cognitive dissonance? And oh please, the Clinton admin came to the rescue and fined the evil bad corporations. Who was selling the SS documents? Govt employees with an inside access?

Originally posted by muse7
The chilren that the governor is cutting aid from are U.S. Citizens

2nd.

Then why is the main focus of the article on Pedro the illegal father of citizen children? Why is this distinction being made in the article? You see, the whole slant was designed by the journalist to place focus on the terrible plight of children of illegals, and it's the same sad song over and over again by those who advocate wealth redistribution and socialism and Statism.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Is this some kind of liberal cognitive dissonance?

I think this issue is bigger than typical party lines.

I bet you can find people on both sides of the spectrum whoagree, and disagree .

When you write the above quote in all your replies, it takes away from your arguement, induces a possible alternative motive.

Just saying.