Kansas slashes food aid for children of illegal immigrants

reply to post by wildtimes


So, now you've gone from "we have to feed all the children" to "illegals really are needed here to do the jobs Americans wonn't", and that tells me what I suspected all along, that you are really an advocate for illegal immigration.

All that talk about pitchforks is just because some of us won't get behind your rally cry.

Originally posted by wildtimes

Originally posted by Night Star
There are genuine cases of course where people need these services and should have them. There is aso a lot of fraud going on where women say they are a one income household and yet they are not and the combined income is well over the poverty lines.

Any MANY of these are citizens of the United States. They don't want to work, they want to freeload; they have more babies to get more freeloader funding.

The immigrants with whom I worked were not doing that. They wanted to earn their keep, to provide for their kids honestly, and to pay back the help they were given. They were frightened people willing to do whatever it took to give their kids a better life.

I'm not an "illegal alien" but I want the same thing for MY kids also. There are probably many americans who are frightened and willing to do whatever to feed their kids also. You said some key things here. The comments you made about american citizens freeloading/ the immigrants with whom you worked= a partial story. Have you questioned EVERY american/ "illegal alien" who is recieving assistance, about their personal situation?

My point is this, WE ALL WANT THE SAME THING, but attacking one side while praising the other seems a little bit biased to me.

Maybe I'm interpreting what you posted in the wrong way. If so, I apologize beforehand because that is not my intention.

Peace

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Night Star

 

how do they afford their stolen identities and fraudulent documents etc.?

Those documents cost about $10 bucks, and take about 10 minutes to produce. Have you ever been witness to someone going to have their pic taken in front of a blue screen, and half an hour later going to pick up their 'fake ID'? For all of ten bucks?

edit on 29-1-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

I hope these were not the same people you stated did not "game", for lack of better term, the system

Originally posted by PopSecretMission
reply to post by wildtimes

 

This is a horrible policy! People these days are way too ok with putting money before people. Some people even get angry at you for suggesting (even suggesting!) something that might be expensive whether it's needed or not. It's like,....they'd rather just see people die!

And the things they think are expensive really wouldn't be anyway, as long as someone was actually willing to hash out different options and ways of dealing with a given problem.

And our financial problems certainly aren't going to be fixed by starving children (or anybody else). I don't care where they come from. They are still human beings and deserve to be treated as such.

And, you've got to wonder sometimes.....if something ever happened in the U.S. that made it too dangerous here for people to live. A situation so bad that people became refugees and started crossing into Mexico....what would the Mexicans do? Would they remember what so many here have done to them and their people, shutting them out, starving their children, etc....or would they turn the other cheek and help us anyway because they knew it was right (even though we didn't seem to know)? If we continue on the road we are on, we may well find out that we too will be turned away in our time of need.

I agree. I just hate the fact that, even in this situation, a way is found to divide us once again

reply to post by DivineFem


No, this particular person was neither married nor a parent (but nevertheless did pay taxes).... and I was merely an acquaintance ... not a coworker or service provider. Still, it was an eye-opening experience.

I've seen those 'fake IDs' before; and they look fake. Really fake.
I also had the opportunity to go with a young couple to the post office to get their child, a beautiful two-year old, a passport; the postal worker was very friendly; there was no questioning of the parents in any way. They took the photo and processed the application, and within a few weeks, the child's passport arrived. The child was then a bona fide card-carrying citizen of the United States of America, as much as any of us.

Please understand, I am not in any way condoning the smuggling of contraband, weapons, humans, or anything else across the borders.

It's really not complicated:
the sins (crimes) of the fathers (or mothers) should not be visited (taken out) upon the children. Anywhere. Ever. Just as the crimes of the government or leaders anywhere should not be taken out on the victims they have harmed and disenfranchised.

There are corrupt people in every organization, nation, neighborhood, race, religion, political party, large corporation, grocery store, football stadium, jail and palace. Everywhere. Always have been. ... and sadly, probably always will be.

The crimes of the mothers and fathers should not be rewarded either.

reply to post by Night Star


Did I say they should?

HOW MANY times do I have to repeat that the problem is the SYSTEM? On BOTH SIDES of the border!

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that?
You all can label me a bleeding-heart liberal all you want. I know what my stance is, and if you refuse to acknowledge it as having any validity then that is your choice and right. I know what the laws are, and how they are used and/or ignored.

The employers are hiring those people.
The doctors are treating them when they come into the hospital to give birth, because they legally HAVE TO.
The law is looking the other way while rampant hiring of the fraudulently-documented are working. And the IRS is happily accepting the taxes taken out of their paychecks to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars. And what about sales tax? Property tax? All the other taxes that NO ONE gets away from....they are paying those taxes too -- that support the schools, the civil engineering (streets, etc), the civil servants, ALL OF THOSE.

When you address THOSE problems, the ENABLERS at the top, THEN you are addressing the real issue.

Until you begin to pressure congress, at state and federal levels, and corporations that hire these people and 'pretend' that they 'thought' it was a 'real ID,' to CHANGE THE LAWS and the NEGLECT OF ENFORCING IT.

How about hold accountable the people in charge?
That's THEIR JOB.

Correct. If we followed already existing laws, we wouldn't have the chaos we do now. Unless ALL states follow the same laws, we will continue to have problems. With so many sanctuary cities and special interest groups, it is like a never ending war. Many States are now coming down hard and fining companies that hire illegals. There are many new bills that if passed will improve things a great deal.

reply to post by Night Star


Thank you.
I am not part of any 'special interest group', Night Star. I am a parent of two adult children, who is unemployed, and I do not condone "illegal immigration" as Horus so rudely suggested.

Neither do I condone abuse of any system. I do not abuse any part of the system and never have, and I do not approve of it.

My big problem with this issue, is those who entered the country illegally then gave birth to their now US Citizen children are being afforded more rights and concessions than US Citizens attempting to legally support their foreign born spouse's and/or children Legal immigration into the US.

US Citizens do not have the right to live in the US with their spouse, their petition for legal immigration benefits along with thousands of dollars in fee's in the end can be denied forcing the US Citizen..sometimes with US Citizen children to leave the country to live with their loved ones.

In the process of all this a US Citizen applying for legal immigration benefits on behalf of their family member. must provide proof of support, which is a binding agreement that their relative will not use means tested public benefits for 10 years,if they cannot provide that proof, their petition will be denied. The foreign born family member must pass several background checks before being allowed to enter the country.

It's not fair...those attempting to make their way through the legal immigration process, who are in doing so also proving they are a US Citizen or Lawful Permanent Resident, should be accommodated equally.and first.

This story brings me to tears:
ries from the Golden Zone: How US policy puts Americans at risk in Mexico’s Narco Wars

Over at the Immigrate2US forum, Susan O’Brien (a pseudonym) took on a similar role, posting as Liley99. In 1998, at age 17, her husband Sabas had embarked on the treacherous journey across the Sonoran desert and entered the United States. He’d worked hard and saved his money. He married O’Brien and, by 2007, the couple had their own home, a successful carpet-cleaning business, and a baby boy. In late 2007, Sabas left the United States so that he could apply for legal immigrant status. “He is living the all-American dream!” O’Brien wrote in a filing to the Juárez consulate. Wanting to remain closer to his wife and child, Sabas decided to look for work in Juárez rather than travel far from the border. Using money from their savings, he rented an apartment in a gated area. But O’Brien still worried. “My husband told me that in just March, 250 people have been killed in Juárez alone,” she posted to her forum. Because the US consulate in Juárez was so short-staffed, Sabas’ application was placed on backlog, a bureaucratic limbo. “I had no idea what immigration was,” O’Brien wrote on the forum on May 17, 2008, after six months apart from her husband, “nor did I understand the obstacles in front of us now…”

Five hours later, she posted another message to the forum, this one frantic. The subject line read: “Please pray, oh god please pray.” Sabas had been kidnapped along with two other men. For hours, O’Brien called her husband’s cell phone with no response. When she finally got through, the man on the other end of the line was a police detective. Throughout that night and into the early morning hours, as O’Brien posted what few details she managed to learn, dozens of forum members stayed up to support her. At 2:15 a.m., she notified the forum that the Juárez police had found a car with three unidentified bodies. “God please let this NOT be him,” O’Brien wrote. “I am lost, I don’t know what to do.” By 5:22 a.m., the identity of one of the bodies had been established; it was the owner of the apartment complex where Sabas lived. “I only hope that he is not one of the other 2,” she wrote. At 8:05 a.m., more bad news. The victims’ last names hadn’t been released, but one had been identified by the first name Sabas. O’Brien awaited the inevitable: “I can’t sleep and still feel like I am dying slowly.” Just after midnight, she posted a message saying that her husband’s body had been positively identified. His hands and feet were bound and he had been shot in the head and tossed into the car trunk. Supporters of Liley99 filled the forum boards with expressions of grief, sympathy, and calls for changes to the system they blamed for Sabas’ death.

For him to become a legal immigrant due to the time he spent in the US, he was required to leave the US and apply for a waiver of inadmissibility, see for those attempting legal immigration unathorized entry and stay in the US previously can be grounds for up to a 10 year ban

Memorial and Support Fund for Liley99 and Family

The original post has now been removed but there are others by her.

reply to post by wildtimes


Duly noted. No one wants to see any child suffer needlessly but we need to collectively realize that NO ONE should suffer needlessly, also

Peace

Originally posted by DivineFem
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Duly noted. No one wants to see any child suffer needlessly but we need to collectively realize that NO ONE should suffer needlessly, also

Peace

I certainly hope I have made it clear that is my point as well...
NO ONE should be suffering. So stop the people causing the suffering.

, so I'll use one of my fave analogies again here:
We can stand downstream all day long and pull drowning people out of the water (first-responder type thing, tertiary intervention), dry them off and send them on their way...

to the second-responders, who fill their bellies, teach them how to swim -- or at least grab a bit of driftwood! -- and give them their own towel
(secondary-intervention)

...or we can go find the BRIDGE off of which the people are being thrown, and STOP THE PEOPLE throwing them!! (primary interventoon -- PROACTIVE response).

Okay, so you and I, DivineFem, trudge our butts to the bridge, and we see the guy who is throwing his people, who look to him for sustenance and survival, into the river. He might even be laughing about it! And we say, "Uh, excuse me, can you stop that please? We don't have enough first-reponders or towels to keep this up!"

And he says "Not my problem!" as he hurls another person into the river. *splash* "And you're not the boss of me!" *hurl --- splash*...
so we go to -- if not the 'boss of him' -- his neighbor who is a peer and who is supplying the towels for the first-responders' efforts.

He says "Are you kidding me? He's doing WHAT?" and he stomps over to the bridge and grabs dude by the collar and says "ENOUGH! You're coming with me!!" and they have a come-to-Buddha meeting and have a look at the dude's reasons for throwing people off the bridge....his methods behind the madness...

and then work toward a win-win outcome and sign a contract to that effect. Whew! No more drowning people! No more need for first-responders! Everyone has enough to eat and a towel! Back to productive, mutually sustainable, peaceful business!

You can't just cut off the drowning people, send them back 'home', where they know they will again be thrown off the bridge. They'll say, 'No, no! Please, don't make me go back there! I just want to stay with you!'

*sigh* We have to say, "Well, let's put a stop to that! Because honestly, we barely have enough to go around here; so we'll have our leader talk to your leader to work it out so we all get to eat. Mmmkay?"

There are starving people all over the world. Can we save them all? Unfortunately no, we cannot. If each country took care of their own first and then helped others there wouldn't be such cruelty and chaos. Sadly, governments only care about power and greed.

reply to post by Night Star


Absolutely correct. I'm glad we have come to a mutual understanding.
Peace

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Night Star

 

Absolutely correct. I'm glad we have come to a mutual understanding.
Peace

Not to point out the obvious but: Mexico is a very wealthy nation. Mexico has the most billionaires out of all the nations of North America.

By allowing the flood of illegals your enabling an oppressive social system to stay in place. By supporting mass immigrants from other countries your preventing those countries from standing on their own. Corporations and other Western Elitist's use immigration to keep "third world countries", third world. By recruiting their strongest and most able citizens to leave those countries those countries will always remain poor.

People like you are responsible for the horrors overseas that you claim to rally against. Because you give protection to the corporations and other elitists. The only thing you are guaranteeing is that you yourself or your descendants will eventually be forced to live through the horrors you claim to stand against. Because by over saturating the West with third worlders will only turn the West into a third world nations. Our resources can only stretch so far before they break. And we are already slightly beyond the breaking point.

reply to post by korathin

People like you are responsible for the horrors overseas that you claim to rally against. Because you give protection to the corporations and other elitists.

Excuse me, but...
what the hell are you talking about?

I authored this thread, thanks, and I have repeatedly and at length stated very clearly that the 'elitists' and 'corporations' are evil incarnate. I honestly can't imagine how you are saying 'people like you' to me...

Did you even READ my posts? I am talking about STOPPING the elitists and corporations from creating slaves!

You've either deliberately misrepresented me, or mistaken me for someone else. Either way, 'people like me' are interested in seeing the redistribution of wealth, and all citizens of all nations having enough to eat and the basic necessities for survival seen to -- by one another, peacefully. Have a look at all of my posts in the Social Issues and Political forums, korathin.
Read them. And then you might possibly have a clear picture of 'people like me.'

I don't expect an apology because people like you don't READ or do any backchecking to make sure you have understood someone. Disrespectful much?

It looks like it is election time so I doubt any of this will be stopped. No enforcing of English, or current American customs, more rewarding of bad behavior of anchor babies and illegals pulling minimum wage down and for what? A #ing vote?