Kansas slashes food aid for children of illegal immigrants

Originally posted by binkbonk
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

The only way to stop the drug cartels is to end the preposterous war on drugs, and legalize all drugs. Legalize, produce, regulate, sell and tax all drugs. Problem solved.

That wouldn't end the problem it would only make it worse. People are already dying in the streets everyday, do you want to make that worse? How many people use drugs responsiibly? Alcohol is a drug and how many people die a year to drunk drivers or driving while intoxicated? How many innocent people die from others' neferious use of drugs?

If you legalize those dangerous drugs every highschool and possibly middleschool kid will get ahold of them and become addicts themselves. Do you honestly know how many teens have access to prescription drugs already? More than you would want to know. Highschool kids already drink, alcohol is their gateway drug.

reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic

What needs to happen is for the Federal government to start leaning on the leadership of other countries, and use US trade power - what's left of it - to demand that trading partners start creating livable conditions in their countries.

That will decrease the incentive to come here illegally. Which is the ONLY way this is ever going to get under control.

Precisely. Thank you for reiterating my point.
We must insist our leaders work with, and not against, our neighbors' leaders, so that people everywhere are cared for, have enough, and are not endangered by simply breathing and existing where they are.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by kimish

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
If you want illegal mexican immigrants to stop jumping borders to the U.S., you make mexico safe for their people and help them build their economy to maximize their potential.

Why do 'we', the U.S. have to help them? they are their own Country with a government, military, education system, etc.

Would you leave them in their misery? I could not and would not. The drug cartels are terrorists no different than any other terrorist organization. They shouldn't have to ask our help we should be volunteering it.

But we have enough problems here at home, right? IMO, you take care of your family that is in dire need before you help the person you don't know 4 blocks away that is in dire need. Don't get me wrong, I don't like people suffering but there is a right and wrong way about doing things. Doing things illegally is wrong. And when someone does something illegally their are consequences and every illegal knows what the consequences are so, why put children through that?

The whole country of Mexico isn't a war zone. Maybe some of them could move to a safer haven within their own country? Instead of breaking the law and having that neighbor foot the bill? Mexico is aggressive at deporting illegals so why is it wrong that the U.S. does the same? It is all hypocritical to me. Hypocritical and wrong on almost every level.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

f you want illegal mexican immigrants to stop jumping borders to the U.S., you make mexico safe for their people and help them build their economy to maximize their potential.

lonewolf, you amaze me.

Where you and I differ on things "religious", I could not agree with your pov on this matter more.
You are absolutely, spot-on, no argument at all, CORRECT.

Thank you for giving me (us) that glimpse of yourself that is missing from some of your other areas of interest.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

f you want illegal mexican immigrants to stop jumping borders to the U.S., you make mexico safe for their people and help them build their economy to maximize their potential.

lonewolf, you amaze me.

Where you and I differ on things "religious", I could not agree with your pov on this matter more.
You are absolutely, spot-on, no argument at all, CORRECT.

Thank you for giving me (us) that glimpse of yourself that is missing from some of your other areas of interest.

The only country, to my knowledge, that actually did some good with U.S. intervention, as far as helping build an economy and maximizing potential was Japan after WW2, and that was because we almost leveled the entire Country. How many African nations are booming with our Aid and all the advice on maximizing potential, hand me outs and so forth that the U.S. has been giving them? None, and it's just not the U.S., you have a plethora of nations 'helping' and it's done no good. Africa is probably the riches continent on Earth in regards to natural resources. Why would Mexico be different?... Take the money and run.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by kimish

 

IMO a lot of these illegal immigrants are having children to take advantage of the system because they know that if they are pregnant/have child born here the likelihood of deportation is minimal.

This is incorrect. Please read the above threads to get a more clear picture of the reasons they come here. They come here to escape extreme poverty, poor education, poor health care, and hopelessness. They come here for the sake of their children, and their desperate extended families (or immediate families) at home who remain in war-torn, dire straits.

They hope that one day their citizen-born children will be able to "sponsor" them coming here legally.

I know a lot of illegals and they are content on taking hand me outs, not assimilating and have no intentions of becoming legal. Actually, the majority of illegals I know are that way.
Yes they had it bad in their home country but why contribute to your hosts problems? It only makes things worse in the end. And why not come legally like millions of others? Their are no deportation consequences for being here legally and you aren't bleeding your host dry by being here legally.

reply to post by kimish


Well, kimish, those are the people who should be deported.

They are NOT the dozens and dozens of people that I worked among every day for 10 years. In your area, I suspect the majority of the "undocumented residents" (the term 'illegals' is very icky, imo) are not from the same countries, values, or experiences as most of the people in my area.

There are differences between the Latin nationals, depending on their country of birth. They might all speak Spanish, but are from vastly different cultural mindsets. I worked with predominantly Mexican and Central American people. I have worked with Puerto Ricans and Cubans as well; they are different, come from different places, just as people who speak English can come from vastly different cultural backgrounds.

There are differences between midwesterners, southerners, new-englanders, west-coasters. There are, likewise, differences between Spanish-speaking people from various locations.


It's important to recognize the difference.

I have also worked in food stamps, welfare, MHMR (mental health mental retardation), and immigration.

Philosophically, I understand where you are coming from. The philosophy of kindness and valuing human life, no matter where on the earth it originates from, is what we should all strive for. In theory, immigrants are honest, hardworking, and just want a fair shake in the Land of Milk and Honey.

However, I have been in the real world, and here are the things that I have observed: The illegal immigrants come here in violation of our laws, knowing that they will not be punished for it. Pregnant women deliberately cross the border in order to secure "anchor baby" status for their children, and they bring a large, extended family with them. Illegals who have handicapped children bring them here for the incredibly expensive therapies, treatments, and medications, which they receive free.

Social security numbers are stolen, so although these illegals pay taxes, it is through a fraudulent avenue. I have seen young children who have employment histories under their SSN that are older than they are. On a few kids, there were over 10 individuals with Spanish names using the same number. Their credit histories are ruined before they are old enough to know what that is. The schools are overburdened by students who were not born here, and who require everything to be in Spanish because they know no English.

Yes they pay taxes, but how much in taxes is debatable, because many work under the table for unscrupulous employers who under report, or do not report at all, that they are paying these people. When you count medicaid, food stamps, and education, I would argue that they are draining the system faster than they are paying into it.

The argument that they take jobs that Americans don't want is a damned, dirty lie and it infuriates me when I see it repeated ad nauseum. I have had welfare recipients try and get jobs working in the farm fields. They were threatened, bullied, told to get lost or get knifed, and their tires were slashed and sugar poured into their gas tanks. The illegals want those jobs for their relatives and friends soon to cross the border illegally just like they did They are clannish, suspicious, and opportunistic. There is no room for Whitey working next to them.

All that aside, I'll tell you what really chaps my hide about illegals. They hate this country, they hate us, they feel we've "stolen" their land, and they laugh in our face while they take, take, take. They have no desire to assimilate, but to overrun. I know there are some who are good souls, but since my parents were immigrants who came here legally, who did everything to assimilate themselves and us, I have a special dislike for this type of sneaky, slow invasion which our government totally sanctions.

In philosophy and theory, love conquers all. In reality, you can love them all you like, but see how far you get when you want love and respect in return.

I think our citizens deserve the assistance as real Americans. We are broke enough as it is, and at this rate, we will be a third world crap-hole within 10 years. Illegals, go home. Our citizens will certainly pick up the slack, of that you can be certain. As for the employers who hire the illegals at dirt wages, they should be strung up as traitors.

My stance is borne out of what I witnessed in reality, not in some mushy, feel-good fantasy. I was once like you, full of love for humanity and the desire to help all those in need, until reality intruded and I realized those I was helping were laughing at us behind our backs, stealing identities, causing crime, disharmony, division, and bankruptcy. If you are here illegally, you are corrupting the system and bringing us down. Period.

reply to post by wildtimes


I agree with you on the reasons they come here, I see what you're saying exactly, and believe me, I do feel bad for these people. I guess the point I disagree with you on is who should foot the bill for their choice to illegally immigrate. Again, I feel bad for these people and the situations they are escaping, but how do you somehow argue that I have some responsibility, as a US citizen, to take care of them? How, in any way, shape, or form, is their situation my fault, and something I should be forced to help them with? Charity is one thing, compulsory taxation and spending is another.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by binkbonk
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

The only way to stop the drug cartels is to end the preposterous war on drugs, and legalize all drugs. Legalize, produce, regulate, sell and tax all drugs. Problem solved.

That wouldn't end the problem it would only make it worse. People are already dying in the streets everyday, do you want to make that worse? How many people use drugs responsiibly? Alcohol is a drug and how many people die a year to drunk drivers or driving while intoxicated? How many innocent people die from others' neferious use of drugs?

If you legalize those dangerous drugs every highschool and possibly middleschool kid will get ahold of them and become addicts themselves. Do you honestly know how many teens have access to prescription drugs already? More than you would want to know. Highschool kids already drink, alcohol is their gateway drug.

You are wrong. Drugs are already so prevalent that anyone that wants them, regardless of age already has them. Make them legal, the cartels have no more power. You are not going to wipe out the drug cartels by force and you are not going to stop people from using drugs by force.

...Oh, and believe me I have plenty of experience in this area. Plenty, please don't try to educate me on you projected numbers of high school kids that will start using drugs if they are legalized. I am not saying to lower the legal age limit.

reply to post by FissionSurplus

In philosophy and theory, love conquers all. In reality, you can love them all you like, but see how far you get when you want love and respect in return.

Interesting suggestion.
In fact, I did get love and respect in return from the people I worked with.

Perhaps your experience was with a different sub-group. The people in my area, with whom I worked, were not like that. And it is not a damned, dirty lie. You may have come across unscrupulous, threatening arseholes;
I did not.

I have also worked with that population as a corporate low-level supervisor, with both immigrants and US citizens on the same team. I saw a clear and vastly different work ethic, and results.

Each individual is different; the people I worked with each had their own way of seeing the world.
You lumping them all together and stating that they are mocking freeloaders and threatening others is what is the damned, dirty lie.

And I'm sick and tired of it, just as you are.

reply to post by apollo7keep

how do you somehow argue that I have some responsibility, as a US citizen, to take care of them? How, in any way, shape, or form, is their situation my fault, and something I should be forced to help them with? Charity is one thing, compulsory taxation and spending is another.

apollo,
I understand your point. I am not talking about anything except making sure the children that are citizens have the same rights as every other citizen. I don't like knowing my tax dollars are supporting fraudulent ghetto-dwellers who have babies every year so they can stay on welfare. I don't care where they were born. It should not be my job to enable them.

I am talking about seeing to the welfare of the children whose parents are not, or cannot, provide for them the best foundation for a future as a positive, contributing member of the society of which they are, literally, card-carrying members.

Hope that's clear.

BUT JUST IN CASE: Edit to add:

How, in any way, shape, or form, is their situation my fault, and something I should be forced to help them with?

Perhaps the difference is in seeing yourself as a human being sharing the same time on the same planet, and leave behind the 'nationality' difference, which is a construct of society that has no bearing on our 'responsibilities' as adults in a world inextricably connected. We are citizens of planet earth. We should strive for promoting a mindset and value system that will empower our children, and theirs, to be the leaders we would like to have had in our own generation.

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
I have also worked in food stamps, welfare, MHMR (mental health mental retardation), and immigration.

Philosophically, I understand where you are coming from. The philosophy of kindness and valuing human life, no matter where on the earth it originates from, is what we should all strive for. In theory, immigrants are honest, hardworking, and just want a fair shake in the Land of Milk and Honey.

However, I have been in the real world, and here are the things that I have observed: The illegal immigrants come here in violation of our laws, knowing that they will not be punished for it. Pregnant women deliberately cross the border in order to secure "anchor baby" status for their children, and they bring a large, extended family with them. Illegals who have handicapped children bring them here for the incredibly expensive therapies, treatments, and medications, which they receive free.

Social security numbers are stolen, so although these illegals pay taxes, it is through a fraudulent avenue. I have seen young children who have employment histories under their SSN that are older than they are. On a few kids, there were over 10 individuals with Spanish names using the same number. Their credit histories are ruined before they are old enough to know what that is. The schools are overburdened by students who were not born here, and who require everything to be in Spanish because they know no English.

Yes they pay taxes, but how much in taxes is debatable, because many work under the table for unscrupulous employers who under report, or do not report at all, that they are paying these people. When you count medicaid, food stamps, and education, I would argue that they are draining the system faster than they are paying into it.

The argument that they take jobs that Americans don't want is a damned, dirty lie and it infuriates me when I see it repeated ad nauseum. I have had welfare recipients try and get jobs working in the farm fields. They were threatened, bullied, told to get lost or get knifed, and their tires were slashed and sugar poured into their gas tanks. The illegals want those jobs for their relatives and friends soon to cross the border illegally just like they did They are clannish, suspicious, and opportunistic. There is no room for Whitey working next to them.

All that aside, I'll tell you what really chaps my hide about illegals. They hate this country, they hate us, they feel we've "stolen" their land, and they laugh in our face while they take, take, take. They have no desire to assimilate, but to overrun. I know there are some who are good souls, but since my parents were immigrants who came here legally, who did everything to assimilate themselves and us, I have a special dislike for this type of sneaky, slow invasion which our government totally sanctions.

In philosophy and theory, love conquers all. In reality, you can love them all you like, but see how far you get when you want love and respect in return.

I think our citizens deserve the assistance as real Americans. We are broke enough as it is, and at this rate, we will be a third world crap-hole within 10 years. Illegals, go home. Our citizens will certainly pick up the slack, of that you can be certain. As for the employers who hire the illegals at dirt wages, they should be strung up as traitors.

My stance is borne out of what I witnessed in reality, not in some mushy, feel-good fantasy. I was once like you, full of love for humanity and the desire to help all those in need, until reality intruded and I realized those I was helping were laughing at us behind our backs, stealing identities, causing crime, disharmony, division, and bankruptcy. If you are here illegally, you are corrupting the system and bringing us down. Period.

Well said. I have known many illegals myself and speak from experience. All these women taking a free hand out when they were in actuality making above the poverty limit makes me sick. We have many people who legitimately need these services while others recieve them through deciet. Most of them had no intention of becoming legal, sent much of their money home to their own Countries and planned on returning back to their home Countries. When I asked them why they would be deceitful when so many people actually needed these services, I was told "America is stupid." What a slap in the face. Many said that they get a lot more by staying ilegal.

When it comes to these children, its the PARENTS FAULT for ALL of this. Blame THEM, the parents.

The parents came here illegally, THEY put their children in this situation, THEY illegally crossed the border. THEY refuse to become legal. THEY are to blame for it all. THEY!!!

And like said, we HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN FIRST. Because if these ILLEGALS (who do NOT belong here) keep TRICKING and MILKING our system, our veterans, and retirees, and disabled will GO HUNGRY and HOMELESS.

Help our own FIRST and FOREMOST. Especially before helping criminals.

Wake up. Wake up. Wake up.

reply to post by HangTheTraitors

I am awake.

It is the fault of the GOVERNMENTS of the countries in question. The leaders need to restructure the law so that people are safe and adequately sheltered and clothed and productive and educated.

The changes have to be made from the TOP of BOTH countries -- the place from where people are fleeing, AND the place to where they are going.

How can you not see this?
If those people had adequate opportunities in their own countries, they would have no reason to leave.

Location: ON THE NEIGHBORS WIRELESS CONNECTION

This is your idea of being responsible ^^^ ? Sorry, but that is criminal. A child born here is not a criminal.
Your double-standards and ignorance are showing.

Grow up.

reply to post by Night Star

We have many people who legitimately need these services while others recieve them through deciet.

Again, I am talking about the children, who are US citizens until the law is changed.

I never said there are not unscrupulous leaches among them.
But there are plenty of our own citizens who milk the system AND abuse and neglect their children.

Perhaps what we need is a system of "behavior = entitlement". Not "citizenship = free ride". If you're not a productive citizen, you don't get help. If you are, in whatever way you can do so, you deserve to be confident of food, water, and shelter.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by HangTheTraitors

 

I am awake.

Obviously not.

It is the fault of the GOVERNMENTS of the countries in question. The leaders need to restructure the law so that people are safe and adequately sheltered and clothed and productive and educated.

The changes have to be made from the TOP of BOTH countries -- the place from where people are fleeing, AND the place to where they are going.

So blame EVERYONE EXCEPT THE CRIMINAL, eh? And its NOT our gov's responsibility to take care of NON-CITIZENS. Should the U.S. gov also be responsible for hungry "aliens" on Mars too if they exist?

How can you not see this?

Right back atcha.

If those people had adequate opportunities in their own countries, they would have no reason to leave.

And whose fault again is this? The U.S. govs? And ME??

Location: ON THE NEIGHBORS WIRELESS CONNECTION
This is your idea of being responsible ^^^ ? Sorry, but that is criminal. A child born here is not a criminal.
Your double-standards and ignorance are showing.

You're just jealous.

There are currently U.S. citizens who are undernourished. No offense, but shouldn't the U.S. take care of its citizens first? I would propose that undernourished illegal aliens be given enough free nourishment until prompt deportation can be arranged.

reply to post by HangTheTraitors

So blame EVERYONE EXCEPT THE CRIMINAL, eh? And its NOT our gov's responsibility to take care of NON-CITIZENS. Should the U.S. gov also be responsible for hungry "aliens" on Mars too if they exist?

wow.
These kids are citizens, Traitor.

What a major fail.
Laughy faces give it away every time.

I'm not jealous; I'd hate to have your brain between my ears...what are you, 15? Been listening to mom and/or dad ranting about things they have no concept of?

You're busted as a troll...
and officially not to be taken seriously (not to mention a self-exposed criminal).
End of chat. Nerve duly struck and exposed ....
*brushes hands together and moves on to more intelligent participants*

Originally posted by qver74
There are currently U.S. citizens who are undernourished. No offense, but shouldn't the U.S. take care of its citizens first? I would propose that undernourished illegal aliens be given enough free nourishment until prompt deportation can be arranged.

No offense taken. These children are citizens.
I totally agree with you that there are millions of children, equally hungry, whose parents were born citizens as well.

My objection is to sending aid to foreigners while neglecting our OWN citizens.
Until the legislature change the laws of citizenship, these children are CITIZENS, and to be considered as such.

The USA needs to clean up its act, and look to the well-being of all of its own citizens BEFORE extending "aid" to other countries. I never said to feed the undocumented immigrants. I said their children are citizens, and will continue to be citizens when they reach majority and have a chance to step up and be leaders themselves.