Let's clear up the ignorance about homosexuality - I hope to never hear these arguments again

I have come to the personal conclusion that people simply need someone to hate. What they should be hating is their ego.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" - Is is really that hard?

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Annee

 

Well, read what Bo Xian wrote on p.1, which made me wonder why people attempted to debate science with him while missing his original position, which is faith-based, or only scientific as far as it fits into a religious paradigm.
And reading on Henry Wright, they are not even teachings generally agreed upon as "Christian".

OH! Well okay then. Not buying into any of that.

Not to mention what I think of Exorcisms.

reply to post by k1k1to


Yeah I agree. I'm a school teacher in Barcelona, Spain and often I see children even from a young age who are going to be gay. They can be 8 or 10 or 12 they always have similar traits and are often confused about what is happening. One such thing happened in class yesterday. I asked them all to work in pairs and obviously choose a partner . The gay one went straight to the girls and paired up with one of them as the guys don't seem to get on with him either . It's really a bit sad that people have such preconceptions about gay people. But he is a cool kid and very funny but is already blatantly gay and he is 12 years old he is one of about 7 I have seen since teaching. It is most certainly not a choice , he doesn't even know what male on male sex is yet.

reply to post by arpgme


If you love someone, regardless of sex, you should be able to make love to that person. Who is to say that Gay sex is wrong? Nobody put on a tablet in stone carving that says Gays are bad. Seriously! This type of thinking is what leads to wars and conflict!

Every human has both masculine and feminine energy, regardless of the "body" that you are presently in. Homosexuality is natural and normal.

There are ways of creating people without sexual intercourse. You're acting like the entire world is going gay and we have no hope for any new life. It's not like that. They intertwine with us, and so everything works out fine.

For lack of a better label, I believe homosexuality is a mental "disorder". The negative connotation is not intended, nor do I believe that it is a disorder that should be cured, if at all possible, unless a cure is desired by the individual. While sexual attractions and actions ultimately serve more then one purpose in humans and highly social animals, sexual attraction and the inherent drive to act on sexual attraction exists for the sole purpose of reproduction. Therefor, an individual of any sexually reproducing species that engages in a homosexual act must have a couple wires crossed, or was just overcome by hormones causing it to grab the best/nearest object for a release.
I am not of the opinion that homosexuals choose to be or are born gay. Children aren't born sexual period. They may be born with a certain susceptibility to homosexuality that later develops naturally in life. I also do believe that it can develop in a "normal" person through certain experiences, emotions, external coercion, and et cetera. The same could be true for the exact opposite.
Regardless, that is the only argument that i would argue to be valid. Although I don't understand what the argument would be for. Homosexuality is wrong? Although I admit I do get disturbed and uncomfortable around overly flamboyant individuals and I've only met a very few number of homosexuals that I had enough in common with to hold a conversation with, (there was only 1, a lesbian, that I actually became friends with) I can't say homosexuality is wrong. I can't say OCD or bipolar or what ever is wrong, and I find passing judgments on people with them to be distasteful and with out class.
Lets be honest though. There will always be people who find homosexuality wrong. Whether it be because they were raised that way, they are ashamed of being gay themselves, or they just flat out find it disgusting there will always be people who need to justify demonizing it. This is one problem with the human psyche. We absolutely need to explain and/or justify everything, and this often overwhelms reason and logic giving rise to great ignorance.

Originally posted by BeforeTooLong
reply to post by arpgme

 

#1 most ignorant and dumbfounding argument:

But my fictional book tells me it’s bad and that homosexuals will burn in hell.

Riiiiiiiiggggght

Totally agree with you. I have no problem with Christianity, but when the fundamentalists start to cause # about my sexuality, it pisses me off.

And i'm not one of those gay people that makes a point of FORCING my femininity upon people, I am not in the slightest feminine other than obsessing over my hair. I otherwise go out and drink beer, play darts in the pub and have a neddish swagger

The Bible say all Sin is equally bad, except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This means that even the simple act of lying, which most people do every single day, gives you a one way ticket to hell unless you repent. Does anybody else get pissed of when Christians, and regular people that lead sinful lives (even though they use the Bible argument, like my mum) just pick this one Sin and force hatred upon it? I NEVER see picket lines with sandwich boards stating that a liar, an glutton, a greedy person, an angry person, a person who eats shellfish or a person who adulterates goes to Hell, so is there something going on that people have something wrong with this ONE Sin?!

Maybe they have pathetically dull lives, and have nobody else to push their illogical values on ...

Originally posted by autowrench


Homosexuality is known to exist in the Animal Kingdom. That fact alone makes it a natural act

Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.

The most well-known homosexual animal is the dwarf chimpanzee, one of humanity's closes relatives. The entire species is bisexual. Sex plays an conspicuous role in all their activities and takes the focus away from violence, which is the most typical method of solving conflicts among primates and many other animals.

I think there are two definitions to "natural" being used here
from dictionary.com:

natural (ˈnætʃrəl, -tʃərəl)

— adj
1. of, existing in, or produced by nature: natural science ; natural cliffs
2. in accordance with human nature: it is only natural to want to be liked
3. as is normal or to be expected; ordinary or logical: the natural course of events


as in number 1 "natural" can mean something that happens in nature

people giving examples of animal homosexuality are taking the first definition

in number 3 "natural" doesn't have anything to do with animal behavior but with the user perception of what is normal or "right"

people who say homosexuality is not natural are probably using the later definition

sorry but I just wanted to set that clear since I've seen many arguments like these were people just argue without really understanding each other

Originally posted by domasio
Totally agree with you. I have no problem with Christianity, but when the fundamentalists start to cause # about my sexuality, it pisses me off.

I have to agree that it's basically only religious people who have a problem with it. Though from my experience i got a lot more problems with muslims. They tend to be extremely aggressive, once they found out they can't # me and i'm basically a lesbian. It goes down to hate, comments (you only need to get a good #) and death threats. I don't know how many muslims combined over the years wanted to kill me, because i don't deserve to life

And to those who say that homosexuality is a disease: It isn't. I wasn't hetero before and never could imagine to be with a another woman. Then i met my girlfriend in some sort of weird accident, i still think it was fate, because i was struck by lightning and fell so deeply in love. We're no together for 7 1/2 years and absolutely happy together

I don't know why people have a problem with it. We don't hurt anyone, we don't "show off" in public, we behave like other people and i don't think our sex live should be anybodys concern.
And for the "But you can't have children and that's what life's about": There's always the possibility to adopt some poor child from an orphanage and personally i think that's a lot better than filling the planet with even more people.

IMO just because something does or does not happen in nature should not be an indication that we should or should not do something

in the example of homosexuality among animals I saw a common theme that was about power and domination and to me it sounds awfully similar to rape
so I don't think giving examples of animal homosexuality to argue for homosexuality is a good way to do it, at least from the bits of information I read from the examples posted before

lastly I don't mean to sound pessimistic or harsh but I really don't see how homosexuality will ever be fully accepted by any society
if you see any gay movement you will see that its not about rights per se, its more about being mainstream and making homosexuality acceptable, erasing prejudices and being accepted just as an equal to a heterosexual.

even if gay marriage is legally accepted I expect a big portion of society will still think that homosexuality as wrong/sin/etc
and there is two outcomes once gay marriage is legalized
1) religious and homophobic groups will calm down and learn to live with yet not fully accepting homosexuals as equals
2) religious and homophobic groups will feel wronged and violence/prejudice against homosexuals will skyrocket

personally I think it will be a mixture of those two, and I just don't see a world were homosexuals are accepted by everyone.

Originally posted by quietlearner

lastly I don't mean to sound pessimistic or harsh but I really don't see how homosexuality will ever be fully accepted by any society

Well, isn't it this way with blacks and women as well? There are certainly groups of whites who still hate blacks, and still think whites are superior (skinheads, neo-nazis, KKK, etc.). And, there are plenty of men out there who think women should be subservient to men.

There's is nothing wrong with people who want the freedom to be able to sleep with who they want, and still be able to be an accepted part of our society. There's nothing wrong with two people who want to spend their life together in matrimony, and raise a family in a loving home. How can this be a bad thing?

reply to post by Annee

I don't understand what you mean by Bias/Belief/Religion

"it's pathetic"

--is NOT science
--is NOT valid statistics
--is NOT reality based on case histories nor group norms

--it IS a seemingly emotionally held BELIEF that's actually, on a number of points, contrary to reality.
--it IS evidently a strongly held BIAS without anything close to sufficient solid foundation.
--it IS a MISLABELING compared to the reality
--THEREFORE it is MUCH MORE related to RELIGION as a bias, belief, perspective by far than it is anything CLOSE to a fact, reality, truth.

you're just reaching for excuses.

Once again, you demonstrate 100% inaccurate understanding;
100% inaccurate mind-reading;
100% inaccurate labeling.

I have NO NEED for any excuses. I'm not trying to excuse anything!

My perspective is built on tons of personal counseling and observational experience as well as solid research.

A shallow "if it feels good, do it" value, norm, religion, politics

does those applied to NO FAVORS.

It's sort of like giving the self-mutilators and cutters MORE and SHARPER razor blades and knives.

They may be temporarily thrilled with the gift of the sharper blades . . . but they'll still be bleeding and scared MORE.

There are consequences for destructive behavior and destructive motives regardless of how much denial may be involved in the process.

PRETENDING RELIGIOUSLY and politically that EVERYTHING IS WONDERFUL does NOT make it so.

My uncle has a colostomy because he used his rear contrary to design, so much.

The incidence of rectal cancer etc. is greatly higher amongst active homosexuals. That's not an "excuse."

That's merely a fact.

reply to post by kaylaluv

raise a family in a loving home. How can this be a bad thing?

It is now clear that the contention that homosexual dual fathers do NOT rear sons equally to heterosexual father and mother in terms of the sons sexuality--as the POLITICAL propaganda has contended for so long.

There IS a significantly higher incidence of the sons turning out homosexual from homosexual homes.

!!!DOH!!! What brilliant rocket science!

How is that a bad thing? Perhaps you have not lived directly nor vicariously 'inside a homosexual's skin.' Most I know would not wish the orientation on their enemies.

AND, MALE HOMOSEXUALS, LIVE ON AVERAGE,

20 YEARS LESS than male heterosexuals.

Perhaps you think a 20 year SHORTER life is a GOOD thing? Most do not.

Perhaps you think that chronically wondering where the next feel-good moment is going to come from is a good thing. Most do not.

Perhaps you think that chronically worrying about STD's including HIV is a wonderful thrill. Most do not.

Perhaps you think the chronic risk of rectal cancer is an excitingly pleasant side-effect. Most do not.

Perhaps you think that going to swimming parties with a colostomy bag is a proud distinctive. Most do not.

Perhaps you think that the most satisfying, fulfilling sense of intimacy comes from a few minutes of risky orgasm with transitory relationships instead of lasting commitment and fulfillment of intimate emotional verbal dialogue over a lifetime . . . many do not.

Perhaps you think that always living as odd-person out in the normal culture is a very satisfying distinctive. Most do not.

Perhaps you think that the chronic depression and loneliness of the average homosexual a huge percentage of the time is a nice side-effect. Most do not.

reply to post by quietlearner

and I just don't see a world were homosexuals are accepted by everyone.

There are occasionally blips of reports of the globalist elites planning to exterminate all homosexuals as destructive misfits--AFTER THEY ARE FINISHED USING THEM to shred social stability and help foster relationship chaos.

It' terrribly hypocritical of the elites as many of them are homosexuals & pedophiles themselves. They just realize that WHEN that orientation is broadly distributed in a society, ALL RECORDED HISTORY indicates that society will collapse not long after.

No. I don't have any refs filed away. It's just one of those puzzle pieces that has collected in my memory banks over the decades of studying globalism.

reply to post by domasio


I agree that a long list of sins are MORE OR LESS

AS destructive to individuals and to society as homosexuality is.

Lying, greed, pride, gluttony, theft, rape, provoking children to wrath, physical abuse etc. are all quite destructive.

There is certainly no room for a holier-than-thou attitude on the part of anyone.

reply to post by halfoldman


imho,

as well as observational and experience perspectives on RAD,

Reactive Attachment Disorder triggers a desperate need to belong;
to find something to fill the hole inadequate Daddy Love left.

Therefore, such triggers all addictions--including sexual addictions of all types.

I've seen this constantly in counseling and in observing families and individuals over 65 years.

That's why I think Pastor Wright is accurate. I don't recall . . . I think his assertion is in his book:

A MORE EXCELLENT WAY.

BTW, dozens of MD's consult with him because they have discovered in their medical practices that he is correct much of the time.

I probably don't have a good answer about why exorcisms fail so often with homosexuals--unless it is the obvious:

It may well be that the conditioned reflex and dopamine high IS SOOOOO POWERFUL physiologically as well as emotionally AND spiritually--that MAINTAINING FREEDOM AFTER deliverance is just very hard to manage. The compulsion for the moth to return to the flame is just intensely strong--maybe even than in nicotine withdrawal situations. And even if there's no partner handy--the hand is handy as are the fantasies available. And every nightly shower or visit to the bathroom can be a temptation.

Homosexuality is a sin according to the bible. It needs to be repented of and stopped if one wishes to be a Christian.
If a homosexual wants to be in a union with another, fine. What I dont understand is why do they want to enter in to the religious institution of marriage. Its absurd. Marriage was originally defined as religious, between a Man and a Woman and God. I dont understand why an atheist would want to get married never mind a homosexual??

Also what I dont get is how a preachy homosexual can dictate what I have to accept. Talk about hypocrisy "the bible is a lie so believe what I tell you"
Yeah right

reply to post by borntowatch


There are other spiritual beliefs that says that marriage and homosexuality is ok. Christianity is not the only religion in the world. There are others with different beliefs. That's why.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Shadowalker
correct. it is a birth defect as explained in the chemistry post above.

It is a birth difference.

There is no defect. Gays are healthy - intelligent - normal - - as they are born.

This is ignorance.

Deny ignorance.

It is a chemical aberration during the fetus forming. A Birth Defect.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

raise a family in a loving home. How can this be a bad thing?

It is now clear that the contention that homosexual dual fathers do NOT rear sons equally to heterosexual father and mother in terms of the sons sexuality--as the POLITICAL propaganda has contended for so long.

There IS a significantly higher incidence of the sons turning out homosexual from homosexual homes.

!!!DOH!!! What brilliant rocket science!

How is that a bad thing? Perhaps you have not lived directly nor vicariously 'inside a homosexual's skin.' Most I know would not wish the orientation on their enemies.

AND, MALE HOMOSEXUALS, LIVE ON AVERAGE,

20 YEARS LESS than male heterosexuals.

Perhaps you think a 20 year SHORTER life is a GOOD thing? Most do not.

Perhaps you think that chronically wondering where the next feel-good moment is going to come from is a good thing. Most do not.

Perhaps you think that chronically worrying about STD's including HIV is a wonderful thrill. Most do not.

Perhaps you think the chronic risk of rectal cancer is an excitingly pleasant side-effect. Most do not.

Perhaps you think that going to swimming parties with a colostomy bag is a proud distinctive. Most do not.

Perhaps you think that the most satisfying, fulfilling sense of intimacy comes from a few minutes of risky orgasm with transitory relationships instead of lasting commitment and fulfillment of intimate emotional verbal dialogue over a lifetime . . . many do not.

Perhaps you think that always living as odd-person out in the normal culture is a very satisfying distinctive. Most do not.

Perhaps you think that the chronic depression and loneliness of the average homosexual a huge percentage of the time is a nice side-effect. Most do not.

I would like to dispute where you get your facts, because I have gotten some different information.

For example, regarding whether children with homosexual parents turn out homosexual:

www.post-gazette.com...

A number of professional medical organizations -- including the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Psychiatric Association -- have issued statements claiming that a parent's sexual orientation is irrelevant to his or her ability to raise a child.

For the most part, the organizations are relying on a relatively small but conclusive body of research -- approximately 67 studies -- looking at children of gay parents and compiled by the American Psychological Association. In study after study, children in same-sex parent families turned out the same, for better or for worse, as children in heterosexual families.

Moreover, a 2001 meta-analysis of those studies found that the sexual orientation of a parent is irrelevant to the development of a child's mental health and social development and to the quality of a parent-child relationship

Also, regarding life expectancy of homosexual men:

www.hypersync.net...

Unfortunately there really is no satisfactory measure of actual life expectancy among gay men. However, Harry Rosenberg, the mortality-statistics chief at the National Center for Health Statistics, says he's unaware of evidence that HIV-negative gays have a lower life expectancy than other males. Rosenberg also points to one reason to think the HIV-negative gay male may actually live longer on average than the straight male: Gays may have higher incomes and more education on average than straights--two factors powerfully correlated with longer life spans. (Bennett himself appears to share this view, terming gays, "as a group, wealthy and well educated.")

There may be a higher percentage of HIV/AIDS and rectal cancer with gays, but that is all the more reason to promote and encourage safe sex, as we do with heterosexuals.

Perhaps the chronic depression and loneliness of gays is attributed to the hate and prejudice spewed at them by people such as yourself. If gays could be accepted for who they are, if they could be allowed to stop hiding in their closets, and if they could stop being treated as if they were "freaks", I bet their loneliness and depression would magically disappear.