Let's clear up the ignorance about homosexuality - I hope to never hear these arguments again

* Homosexuality isn't natural.


Natural - In accordance with nature; relating to or concerning nature.

Obviously it is natural because most animals engage in homosexual intercourse. Most animals are bisexual.



* But they also eat their own feces and/or children...


Yes, and that is natural too, which is why it is stupid to label something "right" or "wrong" based on whether it is "natural" or not... There are things that are natural that are good and there are things that are natural that are bad (in a human's point of view)...


* If everyone were gay, we would go extinct...

So what? If everyone were male we would go extinct. If everyone were female we would go extinct. If everyone were born infertile we would go extinct.



* But it's a disease or mental disorder...

All of the institutes which actually studies the brain in depth disagrees with you... If it were a "disease" you would think we would have found and labeled this "virus" or "bacteria" by now.


* It is causes by evil spirits...

This is a religious/spiritual belief. This is just an opinion. Please do not state it as fact.



* They shouldn't be allowed to get married because it ruins the sanctity!


If you are worried about "sanctity" why not make divorces illegal? Wouldn't that help protect the "sanctity" instead of letting people get married 6 or 7 times? By the way "sanctity" means "holiness" and there is more than one spiritual belief in the nation. Some spiritual beliefs are actually open minded towards gay people... So this is not a valid reason to not allow gay marriages.



* Marriage is between a man and a women!

Yes, because somewhere along the line gay people were banned from getting married. Gay people were getting married long ago believe it or not and no one had a problem then!




* It's disgusting!


This is just an opinion and has nothing to do with the objective reality.




* What's next, allowing animals to get married!? Where do we draw the line!?

How about we draw the line at two consenting adults agreeing to be married, that sounds fair. It will allow blacks and interracial couples to get married too.



* Being gay is a "white" thing...


No, it is a human thing. It doesn't matter if you are black, white, asian, or any other race. If you have same-sex attractions you are gay. If you have same-sex and opposite-sex attractions you are bi. If you have opposite-sex attractions you are straight. It doesn't matter if you "act" on it or not. It's called sexual ATTRACTION not sexual involvement... So people just can't admit to it for whatever reason...

There are plenty of so-called "Straight" guys being with Gay guys and then criticizing homosexuality. This is hypocrisy at its best.



So please, no more of these ignorant arguments OK? Thank you.

reply to post by arpgme


#1 most ignorant and dumbfounding argument:

But my fictional book tells me it’s bad and that homosexuals will burn in hell.

Riiiiiiiiggggght

Are you glad you got that off your chest ?
Good !
Moving on then !

You missed the most mindbogglingly stupid one. "It's a life-style choice. These people choose to be gay." That kind of stupidity is why it's so hard to get equal rights for everyone.

reply to post by arpgme




if homosexuality isnt natural...


answer me this...


at what point in your life did you stop and think..."hmmm i think i like girls, or hmm im gonna start liking guys"


NO. it just came naturally, you were just NATURALLY attracted to females (if you are a male) or males (if you are a female) its not a choice you had to make at some point in your life.

homosexuality is a chemical inbalance, that developes at some point during fetal development, somehow certain areas of the brain that deal with gender,and emotions crossed or went haywire..

you dont choose to be a homosexual...you are BORN that way..period.

you can even tell at a certain point in a childs life early on, i had a cousin who was 8* years old and was always into jewlery and earings, and loved dressing up...he turned out to be gay..


you mean to tell me an 8 year old child has chosen to "be" gay?


gimmee a break

reply to post by k1k1to

reply to post by arpgme


Just get in from your folks place hmmm?
I'm just curious why yer all fired up all of a sudden.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by k1k1to

 

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

People really need to get over sexuality in general. I mean for god's sake it's just sex. If your rights aren't being trampled on in any sense of the word; then you really have no argument, not one that's good anyway.

~Tenth

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

you sir, need to apply for presidency...NOW

correct. it is a birth defect as explained in the chemistry post above.

Hermaphrodites are also victims of a similar but less common birth defect. This happens with both sets of organs at about 1:1000. Homosexuality that is a true defect and not a lifestyle choice runs at about ten to 50 times times that rate.

I had no idea about this until a friend who is a hermaphrodite educated me on the subjects. He told me that he didnt have a desire to be with a man or a woman. only with someone like him.

delete

Sorry the NSA is making my mouse stutter again lol please delete.

Originally posted by arpgme


* Homosexuality isn't natural.


Natural - In accordance with nature; relating to or concerning nature.

Obviously it is natural because most animals engage in homosexual intercourse. Most animals are bisexual.

How do you define "most?"

If you are talking about individual animals, that is a GROSSLY INACCURATE statement.

Even if you are talking about a very few isolated individuals in SOME species--that's STILL GROSSLY INACCURATE. MOST SPECIES ARE *NOT* homosexual nor bi-sexual.

Yes, and that is natural too, which is why it is stupid to label something "right" or "wrong" based on whether it is "natural" or not... There are things that are natural that are good and there are things that are natural that are bad (in a human's point of view)...

Ahhhhhhhhh, yes, the old delusion the Main Stream Media and globalists have been brainwashing the world with for more than 60 years.

i.e.
--there is NO RIGHT OR WRONG
--there's only a right or wrong FOR YOU
--man is nothing more than a rat, a pigeo, a radish or a rock.
--man is nothing more than chance plus time.

Ahhhhhhhhhh, welllll, then, it makes as much sense for someone to shoot you on a whim as to treat you to a Big Mac. Both are equally 'right' according to YOUR value system as illustrated in your post.

* If everyone were gay, we would go extinct...

So what? If everyone were male we would go extinct. If everyone were female we would go extinct. If everyone were born infertile we would go extinct.

I suppose you are unaware that while the elite globalists may engage in buggering toddler boys in initiation and satanic sacrifice rites . . . even they realize that homosexuality is very corrosive to cultural cohesion and stability. They purportedly plan to execute all homosexuals once their are fully overtly in global control of the planet--after they have used them to help creat chaos, division, rampant sexual acting out as well as contribute toward a decrease in population.

* But it's a disease or mental disorder...

All of the institutes which actually studies the brain in depth disagrees with you... If it were a "disease" you would think we would have found and labeled this "virus" or "bacteria" by now.

Actually,





The American Psychological Association changed the designation decades ago

NOT BECAUSE OF SCIENTIFIC EVICENCE indicating the mental disorder was wrong
BUT BECAUSE OF A SLICK AND VERY EFFECTIVE POLITICAL EFFORT
on the part of globalist stooges, operatives, sympathesizers.

It was all part of the centuries old plan to destroy the social fabric of our current culture in order to make the NWO easier to set up on the ashes of the old. They were keenly aware that WHENEVER homosexuality has become a pervasive significant percentage of the cultural mores, the culture collapases in relatively short order--less than 100 years, IIRC.

I terms of evil spirit involvement. I'm inclined to believe it overwhelmingly is a factor. I've been invovled in 100's of exorcisms of all types and I'm pretty convinced in terms of homosexuality. The fact that it's USUALLY very difficult to change and experience lasting deliverance is not a good sign to the contrary.

However, i believe that Henry Wright

www.beinhealth.com...

is correct . . . that ALL ADDICTIONS are a

DESPERATE CRY FOR DADDY'S LOVE

that wasn't sufficiently there the early years of life.

In my experience and observations, that's extremely true about homosexuality.

The hormonal, genetic, factors, according to the research AT MOST contribute 10-20% toward a predisposition toward homosexuality in males.

Lesbianism in females appears to be much more complicated in terms of origins and contributing factors.
.
.

I think in some cases homosexuality is chosen but for the most part, it is innate. A gay friend of mine asked me if I could choose to start liking men instead of women. I of course cringed and said there is NO WAY in hell I could be sexually attracted to men. He then explained that is exactly how he feels about women. There is no way to flip a switch and be attracted to someone. How can anyone argue with that?

Like all social changes, that affect society, the biggest hurdle that will have to be over come is that of fear. And it is one that we are all programmed with from the day we were born. We live with it, grew up with it and ultimately must one day come to the conclusion to either break the programming or go with it.

From a historical point of view, this is more true of ideas or concepts that go against what is the accepted norm that most people are raised and programmed with. If you look at such from the point of history, this is nothing new, where people are using all of the arguments or similar ideas along those same lines. Topics on the areas of the teaching of evolution, or the civil rights movements, or even bi-racial marriage, all at one time were fought over and debated, demonized all of the arguments ultimately were based on the fear of a change that challenged our very idea on what is considered normal to society.

We believe that the sky is blue, we see such, yet how would we feel if all of the sudden, we were told that it was green or red? And to be told such on a regular basis, would be infuriating to us, as it goes against everything that we grew up knowing. And this is no different, many people, were raised to believe that a marriage were between a man and a woman, as that is the norm that is believed by society.

While change is slowly coming, and it comes slowly, we must be patient and allow for those who have reservation and ultimately must come to accept or not in their own time. The only real way to win this argument is through patients and ultimately to gently pointing out the fallacy in their arguments, rather than out right attacking them. By outright attacking them, it only serves to harden their hearts and close their minds, rather than open such up to new ideas and concepts.

As one poster pointed out about religion, what would have been much better stated is the following as it is more of a challenge, without being an attack: How can a religion or any belief that preaches love and acceptance, the gate of heaven being open to those who accept Jesus, even to those who would kill another person, how can be so valid, as to deny such to those who are homosexual and just as devout?

reply to post by BLKMJK

How can anyone argue with that?

Easy.

We can become conditioned to be attracted to doorknobs.

Particularly at key developmental ages and stages.

Sure there are other factors . . . e.g. women who are extremely stressed during the first tri-mester of pregnancy have a significantly higher percentage of homosexual sons than those who were mostly lacking in anxiety or stress. The stress hormones influenced the sexuality outcome of those sons to a significant degree.

However, sons who grew up with harsh, abusive, and/or smothering mothers and cold, distant, harsh or absent fathers also have a significantly higher percentage of sons ending up with a homosexual orientation.

Nevertheless, LIKE ALCOHOLISM

A PREDISPOSITION TO ALCOHOLISM

does NOT FORCE someone to walk into a bar; drink 6 drinks and go out and run over a mother and 3 children.

NEITHER does a 10-20% predisposition to homosexuality FORCE someone to have 10 unprotected sexual experiences with 8 partners in 8 days.

CHOICE IS INVOLVED.

Sure we'd all like to plead . . .

My hormones forced me to do it.
My gas pains forced me to do it.
My anxieties forced me to do it.
The 6 pack forced me to drink it.
His penis just couldn NOT POSSIBLY be kept in his pants and kept dragging him from bath-house to bath-house.
The 12 twinkies just COULD NOT be kept out of her mouth in spite of her best efforts.

. . .
. . .

reply to post by sdcigarpig

As one poster pointed out about religion, what would have been much better stated is the following as it is more of a challenge, without being an attack: How can a religion or any belief that preaches love and acceptance, the gate of heaven being open to those who accept Jesus, even to those who would kill another person, how can be so valid, as to deny such to those who are homosexual and just as devout?

Let's not be muddle headed about this.

IF one is claiming Jesus as Lord and Master . . .

PRETENDING that Jesus winks at homosexuality has NOTHING to do with the authentic Jesus and His teachings, values for life etc.

Jesus says . . . live this way and be blessed and prosper.

Live a different way and pay the costs of violating the manual that was designed for your welfare and blessings.

Pretending that one's human 'not so good idea' trumps THE CREATOR GOD'S design . . . is abject foolishness.

I really have never understood the big debate here. It's not like gay couples are fast roping down from pink helicopters and converting the rest of us or doing anything to hurt anyone. Someone else's sexual orientation has nothing to do with me, and as someone else said I don't remember choosing to be straight. Even if someone DID choose to be gay, who cares? How is it hurting you? Some of the religious folks seem more likely to forgive a murderer than a homosexual.

Also, if you're not doing at least something in the bedroom a religious zealot would condemn you're doing it wrong.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Didn't Jesus also say something about judging? Why don't you just let God deal with it and leave people be? They aren't hurting anyone, and if they are then there are laws against it. People don't run around trying to legislate against Christians even though many find their beliefs wrong/horrible. You have a right to do what you want if it's not hurting someone. Let God sort out the details, remember that you're not Him.

reply to post by Domo1


I have no trouble forgiving anyone of anything.

I need forgiveness so extend forgiveness I'd like to receive.

I also know from lots of counseling how destructive homosexuality tends to be TO THE INDIVIDUALS and families involved.

There are RELATIVELY FEW long term relationships percentage-wise.

Even in some moderately extended relationships, sexual behavior outside the primary relationships is routine.

Just from a disease standpoint, that's not very healthy or safe.

imho, most homosexuals I've known well have had a lot of isolation/loneliness angst.

The desperate longing for lasting intimacy is rampant and very rarely met within the homosexual lifestyle with anything satisfyingly lasting and complete.

All this supposedly idyllic supportiveness for homosexuals and homsexuality is, imho, 98% political and group think brainwashing EXTREMELY OUT OF TOUCH with the average homosexual's personal experiences and angst.

Popularizing dysfunctional behavor does NOT make it wonderful nor fully satisfying. It just provides a cheer leading section.

Soooo . . . let's PRETEND one is an axe murderer. And one joins a group called

"HELP YOUR LOCAL AXE MURDERER FEEL INCLUDED AND FULFILLED"

or


"GLEEFULLY ENJOYING YOUR LOCAL ISLAMIC BEHEADING CLASS AND PRACTICE SESSIONS"

or


"JOINING YOUR LOCAL POPULATION REDUCTION CASTRATION CLUB FOR RECREATIONAL SURGERY"

or

"PRACTICING PEDOPHILE RECRUITMENT FOR LOCAL PRIESTS"

or

"THE FINE ART OF FEMALE CIRCUMCISION FOR RECREATIONAL DATING SURGERY"


Would the self-help groups cheering such on make such work?
Would laws supporting such make those practices wonderful?
Would Main Stream Media cheer leading such activities make them constructive to the culture and comprehensively wonderful?

I think not.

Replacing sound psychological and/or spiritual perspectives with horrifically bad "science" and POLITICAL PROPAGANDA is dishonest and far from a sure route to healthiness.

I don't know if you are aware, or not, . . . it has come out in the last several years that several of the homosexual researchers early on declaring that their studies indicated homosexuality was not a choice . . . were discovered to have cooked the books. They doctored the data to prove their agenda.

Most of even the quality homosexual researchers were more honest. They noted that their research did not PROVE any such thing. That one could still not tell which came first, the chicken or the egg--i.e. the behavior caused the physiological changes or vice versa.

99.99% of the world's populace can INSIST that anything and everything homosexual is 100% purely wonderful with NO negative consequences.

That does NOT MAKE IT SO.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

Didn't Jesus also say something about judging? Why don't you just let God deal with it and leave people be? They aren't hurting anyone, and if they are then there are laws against it. People don't run around trying to legislate against Christians even though many find their beliefs wrong/horrible. You have a right to do what you want if it's not hurting someone. Let God sort out the details, remember that you're not Him.

edit on 12-1-2012 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)

You seem to be assuming that I don't.

In my face to face life, I do pretty much exactly that.

However, as a Christian psychologist, I also have an obligation to stand up for the truth as I have learned it and observe it and am convinced of.

HOWEVER, THE NOTION that homosexuality hurts NO ONE but the two involved is demonstrably untrue.

Even the powers that be pushing homosexuality know that all recorded history indicates that when extensive homosexual acting out pervades a significant proportion of a culture, it isn't a very long time before the culture collapses.

And, how many homosexuals do you know who are thrilled that their partner is out humping with someone else? They seek a more or less exclusive comphrehensive thoroughly fulfilling intimacy. That's something the homosexual lifestyle and community almost never lives up to. Yet, what they experience is the best they can manage within that set of behaviors. Certainly it's easier for them to defend such than be schizophrenic about it all more overtly.

However, I've met extremely few homosexuals, who, if possible, wouldn't flip the switch to become heterosexual.

And those who did seemed to be GREATLY MORE INFLUENCED by the political propaganda and GROUP THINK than by their own personal truths and experiences in their own tortured and mostly unsatisfying, unfulfilling homexual relationships.