The Illuminati are the GOOD GUYS!

reply to post by WhoKnows100


I think you missed the part where you have to understand that there is no christian god, before the rest makes sence.
If you even clicked the links in my OP and read anything that is.

You are clearly not at this stage yet, so maybe stick to the Religious forum.

Originally posted by Tesclo


Let's just kill each other and thank Jesus? I mean I really can't stand behind your statement here.

I didn't say anything about Jesus, and the current church thought is that reincarnation does not exist. I am a spiritual person, not a religious one. IMO almost all religions have some truth to them.

Originally posted by Tesclo
What was the point of advancing ourselves to this point then? Let's just all go back to living in caves?

To live, and experience life. Think of it as if going to school, if you learn everything you need to learn in a level, you go to the next level.

Originally posted by Tesclo
Why not try to advance ourselves past this point?

Because you can't force others to do your will.

Originally posted by Tesclo
Every person on this planet should look at war as primitive unless they are the type of people that you directly describe as tyrants.

That would be forcing others to do what you want. Each person has to learn by himself/herself what is best for him/her, and what he/she thinks is best might not be what you think is best.

Originally posted by Tesclo
You can't defend the position of war in one statement and then turn around and call someone a tyrant for forcing them to abandon ideas of mass bloodshed. It makes no sense.

I only defend war/violence when it comes to self defense, but I know war is brutal and would rather that there were no wars. However, other people will see it differently.

I am not perfect, and no one in this world is perfect. I am flawed and have caused harm on others, mostly with words because of experience, and because of seeing what their thought pattern leads to and would rather that no such thing happens again.

I don't have all the answers, each person must look for his/her answers and if you are ready you will find them.

My advice is live life, love who you can for who they are, and experience all the good things that life has to offer, unless it causes harm to others or to yourself. But then again, you might have a different view of life than my own, and I wouldn't force it upon you.

Originally posted by NeoVain

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by NeoVain

Wars are the result of unresolvable conflicts between nations.

 

Really? I thought they were all about economics and politics. Wow, here I thought wars were resolved when an opposing country sacked their enemy and took all their resources.

Someone should rewrite the history books...

Nice derail attempt, funnyguy

But sorry, i won´t bite

You have a tendency not to reply to things you can't address.

So I'm not surprised.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


You may think I'm crazy, but any God that demands that I bow to my knee at his presense is not my God. If I have to burn in hell for the rest of eternity then so be it. Any God that would threaten my very soul with eternal fire and damnation while handing me freedom of will can never be respected or seen as JUST. An entity of such should be seen as the devil.

I have no problem with people that wish to believe in their book. The problem I have is the pure ignorance in the fact that these people refuse to listen to reason or even a statement without defining it as blasphemy. And in fear, they run away, hit the X button, and think they're saved. I have a problem with the fake Christians that think that just because they go to church on a weekly basis, that somehow they are better than the rest of us that choose not to buy into religion. No sir, my problem is not in the fact that you believe in a religion. My problem is the fact that you think that you are better than I am because you do.

I will not be sucked into a religious debate of the kind that you propose simply because you want to bible thump your way around this website. I've read enough of the Torah, Bible and Koran to know my place in it's order. This website is holds no influence over me in that regard. Thanks.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


The problem I'm having here is that by your definition, people shouldn't be locked up for rape or murder. Because you don't want to force your ideas on them right? So we should let everyone out of prison that ever commited a crime, repeal all laws ever issued and just let the world rise into anarchy because we shouldn't tell people what to do? I think we as a species would be damn right to tell people they cant wage war and cause massive bloodshed. If not, whats the point of the laws described above?

Originally posted by Tesclo

The problem I'm having here is that by your definition, people shouldn't be locked up for rape or murder. Because you don't want to force your ideas on them right? So we should let everyone out of prison that ever commited a crime, repeal all laws ever issued and just let the world rise into anarchy because we shouldn't tell people what to do? I think we as a species would be damn right to tell people they cant wage war and cause massive bloodshed. If not, whats the point of the laws described above?

I didn't say that. Each action has an equal and oposite reaction. If you murder someone out of some macabre joy, or for whatever reason you should pay for what you did.

I abhor pedophiliacs, and imo every one of them who has done harm to a child should be castrated and at the least never be allowed to be anywhere 1,000 meters close to any child.

I have studied, and lived under the refuge of a Buddhist monk, but I never took the oaths because I learned that their way of life was not my own.

I won't accept a murderer, or a pedophiliac for what they are, and i believe that what they have done they will pay in this life and in other lives. But because I believe that they will pay in another life what they have done, and or will do, doesn't mean that I am ok with them not paying in this life for what they have done in this life. (not sure if you understand what I am trying to say)

Murder, and rape, among other things are not ok by me, and I would rather that the world was ridden of every pedophiliac that exists out there, and every murderer that is out there.

However, you must be careful because if you hate too much certain people, no matter how bad they are, you might become something just as deplorable, and the hate will eat you inside.

You see, this

NeoVain just added you as a respected foe...

is part of the reason why there will always be wars.

There will always be somebody, who thinks he/she/they know what is best for everyone, and would force others to do their will "because they say so".

Originally posted by Tesclo

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Tesclo

So it's better to bomb ourselves back the stoneage (again?) or atleast attempt to give the idea a try? That's my only question. Because the way we're going now, we wont make it 10 years without a 3rd world war. This one will be nucular.

IMO we are here to experience life and make the best of our experience with what we are given.

A few of us, if we learn what we need to learn, will move into another form of existance, meanwhile others will stay behind and will have to learn what they came to learn in this life.

Let's just kill each other and thank Jesus? I mean I really can't stand behind your statement here. What was the point of advancing ourselves to this point then? Let's just all go back to living in caves? Why not try to advance ourselves past this point? Every person on this planet should look at war as primitive unless they are the type of people that you directly describe as tyrants. You can't defend the position of war in one statement and then turn around and call someone a tyrant for forcing them to abandon ideas of mass bloodshed. It makes no sense.

Can I ask you a question? Do you not stop to think that a car has only been here just over 100 years yet humanity has been here thousands? That the industrial revolution only started a couple hundred years ago? We forget completely, or never stop to think, that some force caused a sudden shift in technology that has never been seen in the history of humanity? A sudden shift that promoted materialism, wealth, lifestyles of pleasure, gadgets, ancient "gods", anything and everything that takes western nations away from our God in Heaven. Look at rural China, Africa, parts of South America - all of which have not seen this great shift to advances that fuel physical and fleshy pleasures? Do you think that the elite simply keep them in destitute conditions or do you ever ponder why it is that all the western nations are the only one's who lead lifestylses that promote pleasure? What do all the western nations have in common? Christ professing peoples. And if you cannot see that it's the western nations being targeted for internal decay, then nothing will make sense to you. The threat of nuclear war is real and terrifying. And what's even more terrifying is the thought that secret societies such as the one being discussed and adored in this thread cannot accomplish their version of utopia (Satan's kingdom) without finally forcing it upon people. Even the supporters of the Illuminati, know deep down that their groups will have to eventually force the world to such a low point that it involves the wholesale slaughter and destruction of people in order for their goal of open Satan worship. Their words are already demonising one group (Christians) as "ignorant", "judgemental", "deluded" - how do you think Hitler accomplished what he did? The very same technique.

War is barbaric and it is of evil. It is darkness that cannot stand in the light. The Illuminati say that they worship the "light bearer" yet work in secret, demonise their enemies and only serve their end goals. And to do that, they lie for

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


There is a difference between hatred and justice. And this goes back to the guy that asked me how I know for a fact that there isn't some secret people helping us in the shadows. My response was the same as it will be here. I honestly don't care. We have to take action ourselves if we want real change in our world. And that means that I don't rely on outcomes of a next life to dictate my actions here and now.

You brought up the point that there is a possiblity that we've already bombed ourselves back into the stoneage once before. Perhaps even multiple times. I tend to agree with that and I don't want to see it happen within my life time. The biggest issue that I have with your opinion is that we need to discredit war. We need to show people that war is not the answer. Because we will never get off this rock if we don't. And as much as you disagree with me, it is a primitive practice and it needs to be stopped.

Now do we force people into this one world order simply to stop the violence? No. But we do force them to stop waging war. We do force them to abandon their nucular weapons while we also abandon ours. The United States needs to lead by example and the only war that I would ever support is one that forces other nations to give up their nucular weapons. But the thing is we need to give up ours aswell.

Humanity is better than this. We don't need to run around with billy clubs beating each other over the heads. We have the potential to see the stars within this generation's lifetime. Make it a reality. Invest in education and technology. The survival of this species is more important than any war or religious book. My God is the creator of this Universe and to my knowledge, it didn't write a book. But Jesus told me to treat others how I would want to be treated, the man spoke truth in that sense.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


I'm not sure why you insist on making me your enemy. We disagree on religion. Leave it at that. Read my posts in this thread and find the similarities of our ideas instead of pulling the Jesus card. I'm entitled to my opinion on the matter just as you're entitled to your decision to not read the link in the OP.

Originally posted by Tesclo
reply to post by WhoKnows100

 

You may think I'm crazy, but any God that demands that I bow to my knee at his presense is not my God. If I have to burn in hell for the rest of eternity then so be it. Any God that would threaten my very soul with eternal fire and damnation while handing me freedom of will can never be respected or seen as JUST. An entity of such should be seen as the devil.
I have no problem with people that wish to believe in their book. The problem I have is the pure ignorance in the fact that these people refuse to listen to reason or even a statement without defining it as blasphemy. And in fear, they run away, hit the X button, and think they're saved. I have a problem with the fake Christians that think that just because they go to church on a weekly basis, that somehow they are better than the rest of us that choose not to buy into religion. No sir, my problem is not in the fact that you believe in a religion. My problem is the fact that you think that you are better than I am because you do.

I will not be sucked into a religious debate of the kind that you propose simply because you want to bible thump your way around this website. I've read enough of the Torah, Bible and Koran to know my place in it's order. This website is holds no influence over me in that regard. Thanks.

I actually wasn't Bible thumping to you, merely pointing out that you made known the viewpoints of the Illuminati.
Being wrapped up in nice packaging still does not disguise that demons demonise. Your words "while eliminating that which has enslaved us thus far" were clear to all those who have ears. Christ Jesus, not once, advocated the killing of His enemies in the last days. In fact, I shall do my utmost to turn the other cheek when insulted because those insults stem from hearts that are hardened and from hearts that do not know the Glory of God in the universe. I wish you well, and will even forgive you if you are the one calling for my execution in these last days simply because I choose the Light and Glory of Christ Jesus and God. I hope that my pointing out your words as support of the "elimination of that which has enslaved us so far" does not cause offense, but rather a search in your heart for what made you utter such hate. What comes out of our mouths is the spirit which lives in us.
Peace.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


How do you know your God is not actually the Devil in disguise?
How do you know you have not been deceived by Satan into believeing he is your God?
How can you know this? Look at what he teaches. Compare to what the Illuminati teaches.

Then it becomes apparent who is the Deceiver.

The Illuminati encourage skepticism. We do not seek sheep. We seek those who can apply their critical faculties and see beyond the delusions and lies of the old, false religions. Illumination - the ancient religion of the Illuminati - is not for believers who place blind faith in absurd gods and prophets. Many of our members began their journey as skeptics, cynics and atheists. To bring such people to illumination is a vastly more difficult task than preaching to the herds and flocks who wish to spend their lives on their knees worshipping deities in which no rational person could possibly believe. Illumination is the most remarkable religion in history because it is the only one that convinces atheists that they are mistaken. The reason for that is simple. The True God of Illumination has nothing at all in common with Jehovah, Allah or Christ. When God is defined in absurd ways, absurd conclusions flow. When the real nature of God is understood, all the mysteries of life fall into place.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


How do you know for certain that mankind hasn't existed before in a civilization similar to our own, or even more advanced?

I can show you proof of for example ruins of advanced cities which are under the oceans and existed tens of thousands if not hundred of thousands of years ago.

For example, there are ruins off the west coast of Cuba of what must have been a very advanced civilization, but it is now over 2,000 feet underwater.

Scans have been taken of these ruins, and 3d replicas have been made showing what such a city looks like today.

Many of these cities have pyramids, and the one in Cuba is bigger than the pyramid of Kheops.

Some years back a new race, completly appart from humans was discovered, and named "Hobbits".

Every ancient culture talks about these creatures, and others, including giants, and not too long ago modern science thought these were just myths.

Mankind has certainly existed far longer than modern science claims we have existed.

BTW, how are you sure that the bible isn't a work of the devil? the devil is also supposed to be able to do miracles. He is/was an angel of light, but also a deciever.

What could be the greatest deception of all but to make people think that the devil is God. After all a God that rules by fear is no good God at all.

Just like a father who rules his children with fear, and punishment, including death if his children don't do as he commands, is not a good father.

How do you know for certain that maybe the true teachings of Jesus were those recorded in the apocrypha books such as the Gospel of Thomas?

Those books existed for millenia without going through the hands of people who could have changed what was really in the books, but the bible has gone through many different hands and has been changed, and things have been removed because "church officials wanted them removed".

Christian holidays, like the birth of Jesus on December 25th are Pagan holidays. Back in those days there was a majority of Pagans, and the Emperor Constantine wanted them to accept the new christian religion, so christian holidays were merged with Pagan holidays so slowly the Pagans would accept the Christian teachings.

In this way many things were changed, and others were taken from the books, because the church "thought they knew exactly what their God wanted people to learn".

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Those words weren't directed towards religion. Those words were directed towards the tyrants that refuse to let go of humanity. From Egypt to Rome from Rome to the British Empire to the current situation we have. If you didn't take offense to words not directed towards you or your religion, you would see that I'm fighting the same war that Christ himself fought against and was crucified for. It always has been a war for humanity. I hold no loyalty towards any secret society including the Illuminati. But I also simply do not believe in religion. I've read all I need to know about it. But an athiest does not believe in God. I do. Understand the seperation of religion and God and you'll see my stance. And on that day that Jesus Christ himself rides down with a sword in his hand, I'll stand next to him against evil. But I will never bow. And if that in itself casts me into hell, then so be it.

reply to post by NeoVain


seems plausable at the least... most media portrayes them as the bad guys, could just be more misinfo

reply to post by NeoVain

I read parts of the second link posted.

One thing I found interesting about their political philosophy is 'constant iteration of the Hegelian dialectic of thesis and antithesis giving rise to a synthesis, which becomes another thesis with its own antithesis'. In that sense what they are proposing 'meritocracy/social capitalism' is the synthesis of democratic capitalism and its antithesis, socialism. However, I suppose this would be applicable to those parts of the world where democratic capitalism is the current thesis, primarily the West. Hence I fail to see how this is supposed to result in a new world order.

Even if its applicability is only to the West, it is still interesting because it proposes a non-dogmatic approach to political philosophy. The 100% inheritance tax proposed, while innovative, is not likely to achieve the desired effect, same starting point for everyone in the race. A child born to successful parents gets a better start than a child born to less successful parents. There is also nothing preventing a person from transferring the wealth while alive, ensuring that the children of the rich enjoy the advantages of being born to the rich. Sure those who cannot manage to transfer their wealth before their death will be unable to pass on the advantages to their children, but they will be mostly those who died an unexpected death. About the only way of ensuring a "level playing field" for everyone, if it is even possible, is a 'Brave New World' kind of society where children are not brought up by their parents, but in some communal nurseries. I assume they are not trying to remove the genetic advantages and manufacture everyone from the exact same genetic material.

While their critique of existing religions is reasonable, their own proposed religion is laughable. It is amusing to see them develop such huge blindspots for their own religion which they accuse the followers of other religions as having for theirs. Reincarnation/Rebirth without a concept of Karma? Is everyone born with a clean slate with the soul/spirit (or whatever they call it) no better in subsequent lives than the previous ones? If so, is the ultimate spiritual attainment a matter of chance, restricted to one lifetime? So where is the evolution of the spirit in this?

Gosh, these "illuminated" ones sure have a long way to go before they can present a coherent concept, be it political philosophy or sprituality. Don't think I will bother exploring it any further.

But like every other religion, it too has success potential, since being a coherent concept is not a necessity for success of a concept. All it needs is bunch of guys, either honestly because they lack the intellect to see the blindspots or dishonestly, to claim it is a coherent concept and gain converts because appeals to the emotions or self-interest of the others. Since at the moment there are a lot of 'lynch the bankers', 'lynch the wealthy' crowd in the West, it might become a huge hit.

Of course, none of it gives us a clue as to what the "secret" is that they are holding. But going by what has been "revealed", there isn't any secret to be revealed. Just a trick to hold interest. Or it could be a dishonest claim that they have a way of harnessing unlimited supply of energy, but cannot reveal it until the NWO is established, because such knowledge gives the government unlimited power and cannot be trusted with a society unless it has responsible and "illuminated" leadership, something that will be swallowed by the suckers joining them.

reply to post by Tesclo


Hmmmmmmmmm . . . rather a stark and interesting set of declarations.

My curiosity is tweaked. I find myself wondering . . . what were the horrendous disappointments with your parents at critical ages and stages. Whence comes this outrage against . . . what . . . against

order?

. . . but any God that demands that I bow to my knee at his presense is not my God.

Welllllllllll Love does REQUIRE, imho,

at least the REAL FUNCTIONAL

OPTION

to choose NON-LOVE

AND

to set up the conditions, reality, context such that

having chosen NON-LOVE

there are REAL NON-LOVE CONSEQUENCES for such a choice.

Else the choice is meaningless and there is no free-will at all.

If I have to burn in hell for the rest of eternity then so be it.

I don't know how to wrap my understanding around hell very well, though I've paid a visit long ago. It was quite frightful. I'm not the least bit interested in returning. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

It is interesting that Christ spoke more of hell than He did a lot of things. Treated it as a very real place.

And, 4 year old Colton Burpo in HEAVEN IS FOR REAL discovered hell was a real place, too.

So, whatever it is . . . I'm convinced that

1. hell is real.
2. hell is to be avoided at all costs
3. Christ is the only means/route/solution for avoiding hell
4. unavoided hell is a very long time of serious discomfort to the max.

Yet, the gates of hell (defensive) shall not prevail against the authentic Church of the Lord Jesus. Puzzling.

I'm not a universalist--as I don't think that's per se, Biblical. Yet, there are mysteries I have no answers for. I just choose to take Christ at His Word as His Word and He have been the most profoundly meaningful and redemptive realities in my 65 year old life.

Any God that would threaten my very soul with eternal fire and damnation while handing me freedom of will can never be respected or seen as JUST. An entity of such should be seen as the devil.

Just because you have difficulty wrapping your understanding around God

ON HIS TERMS

does NOT MEAN that YOUR TERMS are BETTER THAN GOD'S

at defining "REALITY."

However, that's a pretty slick rationalization for nominating yourself as God above Almighty God.

I have no problem with people that wish to believe in their book.

Are you SURE that's 100% honest with yourself?

My suspicion is that as long as folks believe in their book in a dark hole or closet somehwere, you can sort of tolerate it.

When they dare to assault your ears or eyes with something about it, it sounds like you do have significant problems about them and their book.

I suspect, however, you have no problem spewing your values and perspective all over reality and your contexts, relationships and associations.

The problem I have is the pure ignorance in the fact that these people refuse to listen to reason or even a statement without defining it as blasphemy.

Actually, I don't find your assertions all that REASONABLE--blasphemy or no blasphemny. I can't speak for other Christians on such scores.

And in fear, they run away, hit the X button,

Soooooooo, you're a master psychologist mind-reader in addition to your omniscient skills and qualities. Impressive!

and think they're saved.

Wellllllll The Book does say:

Those who call on the Name of The Lord Jesus will be saved.

and

Those who believe that Jesus is God and raised from The Dead in their heart and confess such with their mouths, will be saved.

Given the evidence for The Resurrection, I consider trust in those assertions to be quite REASONABLE.

I have a problem with the fake Christians that think that just because they go to church on a weekly basis, that somehow they are better than the rest of us that choose not to buy into religion.

Most of the authentic Christians I know of have a problem with holier-than-thou extrensic phony pseudo-'Christians' too. The authentic Christians I know consider ourselves flawed sinners saved by God's Grace, working out our salvation in fear and trembling in our dialogue and walk with Him.

My problem is the fact that you think that you are better than I am because you do.

To determind "better" or "worse," I've found it's useful to know 3 things, first:

1. What is the related GOAL?
2. What is the criteria/standard of measure that informs that the goal has been reached?
3. What is the context?

imho, we are ALL thoroughly EQUAL BEFORE THE CROSS.

However, some do have a BETTER RELATIONSHIP with God than others.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm
.

Originally posted by maestromason

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by maestromason

 

If you are going to post in a thread about secret societies , post something that Refutes that societies exist .. or that the Illuminati do not exist. You are not adding to the thread discussion. You are taking the discussion of the thread off topic.

Neither actually. I am very thankful for higher education, cerebral blockers and humor.

This is no way adds the productivity of your argument or this thread. We can bring up Facts and stated ideals that the Illuminati / Free masons exist. Please bring in your source that the Illuminati and the Free masons do not exist and we will discuss it. Otherwise , why do you continue to post insults / non topical comments?

edit on 04/30/2011 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

I have added plenty to this "discussion". My points are valid and irrefutable. If you want to believe in an IMAGINARY(straight from one kook's mind) maleficent cabal then go right ahead and keep it moving to you get to the funny farm.

The FACTS are no where on the internet. In order to find them requires the following:

#1) A WELL. SOUND MIND & BODY of A WELL-ROUNDED & HIGHLY EDUCATED individual who is willing AND HEALTHY enough to travel the world.(check)
#2) multiple passports(check)
#3) copious amounts of money(check)
#4) a well-documented itinerary and agenda(check)

Let us be truthful here...how many of you here have traveled the world in search of the mysteries?(check)

How many people here even know about the various mysteries of the world outside of sitting in front of a computer?(check)

Heck, how many people here are above the age of 30? 40? (check)

How many people here have been alive long enough to know their anus from a hole in the ground?(double check)

When it come down to facts I am brutally honest.

edit on 11-1-2012 by maestromason because: (no reason given)

Brutally honest and quite pompous as well...

reply to post by Observor


Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

Even if its applicability is only to the West, it is still interesting because it proposes a non-dogmatic approach to political philosophy. The 100% inheritance tax proposed, while innovative, is not likely to achieve the desired effect, same starting point for everyone in the race. A child born to successful parents gets a better start than a child born to less successful parents. There is also nothing preventing a person from transferring the wealth while alive, ensuring that the children of the rich enjoy the advantages of being born to the rich. Sure those who cannot manage to transfer their wealth before their death will be unable to pass on the advantages to their children, but they will be mostly those who died an unexpected death. About the only way of ensuring a "level playing field" for everyone, if it is even possible, is a 'Brave New World' kind of society where children are not brought up by their parents, but in some communal nurseries. I assume they are not trying to remove the genetic advantages and manufacture everyone from the exact same genetic material.

You need to understand the full picture here, not only do they propose a 100% inheritance tax, but they also propose Maximum income cap per citizen, to be 20x the "average" income. This means that even a very successful family will not be able to spoil their children nowhere near what they can do today. Sure their children may have it slightly better for awhile... but once the parents are dead they better be prepared like everyone else.

While their critique of existing religions is reasonable, their own proposed religion is laughable. It is amusing to see them develop such huge blindspots for their own religion which they accuse the followers of other religions as having for theirs. Reincarnation/Rebirth without a concept of Karma? Is everyone born with a clean slate with the soul/spirit (or whatever they call it) no better in subsequent lives than the previous ones? If so, is the ultimate spiritual attainment a matter of chance, restricted to one lifetime? So where is the evolution of the spirit in this?

Reincarnation may sound absurd, unless you KNOW it is true. Considering their Gnostic and scientific viewpoint about everything else, why would they suddenly take such a leap of faith? Not logical.

I think we can be fairly certain their "Big Secret" have something to do with this fact...
Considering spirit science says the same thing.. (that our spirits are eternally recycled)

I find this fascinating, because the more i research it, the more unrelated sources i get saying the same thing.

Originally posted by Tesclo

There is a difference between hatred and justice. And this goes back to the guy that asked me how I know for a fact that there isn't some secret people helping us in the shadows. My response was the same as it will be here. I honestly don't care. We have to take action ourselves if we want real change in our world. And that means that I don't rely on outcomes of a next life to dictate my actions here and now.

But are you the world? or is the world comprised of people with many different beliefs than you?

Despite popular belief, one person CAN'T change the world. You need most, or all people to accept your view to cause that change you want, and I can assure you that a lot of people do not believe what you believe.

I haven't visited every place on Earth, but i have seen enough places and people to know that most people do not believe what you believe.

Originally posted by Tesclo
You brought up the point that there is a possiblity that we've already bombed ourselves back into the stoneage once before. Perhaps even multiple times. I tend to agree with that and I don't want to see it happen within my life time.

And what will you do if it happens again? Because most certainly you won't have any say on whether it will happen again or not. Most people in the world would have to think like you for this to happen, and many, at least millions, will not accept it.

Originally posted by Tesclo
The biggest issue that I have with your opinion is that we need to discredit war. We need to show people that war is not the answer. Because we will never get off this rock if we don't. And as much as you disagree with me, it is a primitive practice and it needs to be stopped.

But war is part of the human condition. It is part of mankind's nature. As it is even you want to force people to not want war, that in itself would cause a war if it happened. When you FORCE people against their will, they will attack back.

Originally posted by Tesclo
Now do we force people into this one world order simply to stop the violence? No. But we do force them to stop waging war. We do force them to abandon their nucular weapons while we also abandon ours. The United States needs to lead by example and the only war that I would ever support is one that forces other nations to give up their nucular weapons. But the thing is we need to give up ours aswell.

Humanity is better than this. We don't need to run around with billy clubs beating each other over the heads. We have the potential to see the stars within this generation's lifetime. Make it a reality. Invest in education and technology. The survival of this species is more important than any war or religious book. My God is the creator of this Universe and to my knowledge, it didn't write a book. But Jesus told me to treat others how I would want to be treated, the man spoke truth in that sense.

Humanity will survive, if only with a few people like it has happened before.

We know that mankind has gone through what is called "population bottlenecks" where most of mankind died for one reason or another, and only a small group survived.

If you think that we are just a physical body, then you are bound to repeat this life. We are more than just a physical body, but as spiritual beings we want to experience life, and all forms of manifestation, and right now we are living life as humans in this world.

If you want to cause good change then you need to change first, and you need to realise that nothing good will come from forcing others to see the world like you want.

Each individual must learn of their own accord.

Socialism/communism tried to force something similar to what you want, and in 87 years it caused the murder of 110 million people, and millions more were put in indoctrination camps and in gulags/prison, because they would not accept socialism/communism.