The Messiah destroys the Edomites and Moabites in his return.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
The jewish priests didn't change anything and the dead sea scrolls proves it.

Today, the majority of scholars agree that the Torah does not have a single author, and that its composition took place over centuries. From the late 19th century there was a general consensus around the documentary hypothesis, which suggests that the five books were created c.450 BCE by combining four originally independent sources, known as the Jahwist, or J (about 900 BCE), the Elohist, or E (about 800 BCE), the Deuteronomist, or D, (about 600 BCE), and the Priestly source, or P (about 500 BCE).


There is the majority of scholars on one side, including expert JEWISH scholars, christian scholars, atheist scholars - and then there is you on the other side.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are dated between 150 BCE and 70 CE.

That is more than 300 years after the Torah was combined by priests (450 bce), and over 1000 years after Moses lived.

edit on 9/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)

Take a look at Yahshua's life, then look at Muhammad...compare the two. Yahshua lived a perfect life, Muhammad...did not. Yahshua conquered the hearts of men, Muhammad conquered men period. You call Muhammad a prophet yet he made no prophecies. You think Muhammad was the Holy Spirit yet he could not prophecy...see the problem? The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth and he also governs prophecy. The only thing Muhammad prophecied was falsehoods. Even Lucifer can heal people, but only the Holy Spirit can prophecy.

I agree completely and this is the main reason why I struggle to take the ideas of Muhammad and Islam seriously. It demonizes people. Anyone who disbelieves is an infidel to be killed/conquered, rather than another human being to be reasoned with.

Just adds to the bigger cloud of BS that is religion and makes the teachings of Christ more hazy.

reply to post by DarkKnight21


Thats why you have to know who the Messiah is and you learn this by reading the bible. His entire ministry is chronicled in it and it tells you how he was and his personality and it gives you a feel about him as a person. This enables us to desire to know him more on a personal level so we can throw out the religious b.s. Christiaity isn't a religion it's a brotherhood we have together with eachother in him. We are his servants and he is the equalizer. Under his rule a rich man is no more than a poor man as a servant. Under the same master no slave is above another, all are equal.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

Thats why you have to know who the Messiah is and you learn this by reading the bible. His entire ministry is chronicled in it and it tells you how he was and his personality and it gives you a feel about him as a person. This enables us to desire to know him more on a personal level so we can throw out the religious b.s.

Yes you are right. More Jesus, less religion. He is the most famous person of the Bible and for a good reason: he reaches out to everyone. Though he lived 2,000 years ago and I have never met him in the flesh, I miss him and love him. How is this possible?

Even Einstein had this to say about Yeshua:

Originally said by Albert Einstein
I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene....No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

Thats why you have to know who the Messiah is and you learn this by reading the bible. His entire ministry is chronicled in it and it tells you how he was and his personality and it gives you a feel about him as a person. This enables us to desire to know him more on a personal level so we can throw out the religious b.s. Christiaity isn't a religion it's a brotherhood we have together with eachother in him. We are his servants and he is the equalizer. Under his rule a rich man is no more than a poor man as a servant. Under the same master no slave is above another, all are equal.

And Jesus said "Ye are no more my servants, but my friends".

John 15:13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 15:15Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Jesus said we are His friends. That is something no other religious figure has ever promised. We are friends of Jesus and He laid down His life for us, because of His love for us. Not only has He laid it down for us, but for all men. That means that Jesus laid down His life for every Muslim and Jew as well as the Christian. That means that Jesus was crucified.

No other religious figure ever said they would lay their life down and take it back up, in love. The whole ministry of Jesus was motivated by love and never one time did Jesus condone killing others. Jesus was the ultimate martyr, and never killed a person.

reply to post by WarminIndy


And yet Jesus claims to worship the God of the Law (Torah/Old Testament) who DOES command killing.

Jesus message does not fit with the killing commands of God in the Law and yet he said his Laws are eternal and unchanging..

reply to post by arpgme

. . . he said his Laws are eternal and unchanging..

If you mean, as spelled out by Jesus, then yes . . otherwise, no.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

And yet Jesus claims to worship the God of the Law (Torah/Old Testament) who DOES command killing.

Jesus message does not fit with the killing commands of God in the Law and yet he said his Laws are eternal and unchanging..

Thats where you have to know the true identity of Christ, and only he can reveal that to you. You cannot see it on your own.

Ever wonder if the laws of Moses were being taught the way they were supposed to be? The answer is no, they were not and Jesus even told the Sanhedrin pharisees they were not living the law as according to God but according to their own desires and they hated him for it.

So the laws they were teaching, were not really God's laws, but their own personal view of it.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


So the old testament was corrupted by them because their own desires were stronger than their love for God's true teachings?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

So the old testament was corrupted by them because their own desires were stronger than their love for God's true teachings?

No the scriptures remained the same, but they were teaching their opinions and saying "this is the way it is" when it was not. This what the Talmud also does. You have rabbis saying it's this certain way when they have no real idea it even is. This is why you don't listen to other people preach their opinions, you go straight to the source and ask Jesus to allow his Holy Spirit to show you.

The Sanhedrin wanted to kill Jesus on the spot when he called them out but he thwarted them with everything he said because he is the Living Word and the perfect lawyer. They had nothing on him until he told them "I AM the truth the way and the life, no man comes to the Father but through me", he was claiming to be I AM, the Living God in the flesh and when he did this he fulfilled Isaiah's prophecy of Immanu'el and you know the rest of the story.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

So the old testament was corrupted by them because their own desires were stronger than their love for God's true teachings?

What people don't realize also is this, that every feast day, every tradition, ever Sabbath, every promise in the Old Testament was a shadow of what was to come and is fulfilled in Jesus. We, as Christians, do indeed keep the Passover and the other holy days.

For people like Jim Dewey, who conveniently forget even what Jesus said, need to read it. Let me expound some scripture here. For space sake, I will only put in half of the chapter here and the rest in the next.

Matthew 24 1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Let's do some exegesis here. OK, it starts here with Jesus on the Mount of Olives, and His disciples come and ask Him how the world is going to be when Jesus comes back...not when He is leaving. Understand this very clearly, when He is coming back and the end of the world. You might then say to me, it was the end of their world as they knew it, making it an allegorical world..but let's see if that is what He was referring to.

Here He refers to the temple being destroyed. That is the start of the message, He says it will be destroyed. We know it was in 70 AD, but is that the end? No, according to Jesus, it is not. And who was Jesus telling this to? His disciples, that were not yet converted to Christianity. They were very much Jewish at that time. Yes, they were Jewish, not converted Christians. In fact, no one becomes Christian without believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus, and it had not happened yet...but let's continue...

reply to post by WarminIndy


So we know He said the temple would be destroyed, and yet does not say Rome was going to do it. He merely says it will happen. Then Jesus immediately segues into the false christs that will come in His name, but the END IS NOT YET. So we see He went from the destruction of the temple to false christs. Is this important? Yes, it is. He says the false christs will deceive many. Then He goes on to speak about wars and rumours of wars.

He also mentions famines, pestilences and earthquakes, and then says "these are the BEGINNINGS of sorrows. And many false prophets shall arise, and deceive many. Why did Jesus refer to false prophets even before the end? He mentioned them in the same context with wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes. Do you think there may be a connection?

Now get this, Jesus said "The GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world, for a witness to all nations. And THEN shall the end come. If you want to say all that happened in 70 AD, let's consider a moment, were there famines and earthquakes and pestilences in 70 AD that destroyed the earth? And was the gospel of the kingdom preached to all the earth, to all nations by 70 AD? We can without a doubt say no, it had not happened by 70 AD, so maybe Jesus is telling us it will be a further in the future event? Yes, it was an event in the far future of those disciples.

Suddenly Jesus refers to Daniel, and the anti-Christ. Oh, so wait, the anti-Christ will be before the end? And wait, doesn't Jesus say in the end, He is coming back? Yes, Jesus is coming back in the end, and I certainly did not see anywhere that Jesus came back in 70 AD..What do you think? Did Jesus come back in 70 AD? If you believe the end was in 70 AD, then show me where Jesus came back, and if Jesus came back, there can be no church on earth, isn't that correct?

This is how Jesus said it would be when He comes back....

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

AND THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven with what??? POWER and GREAT GLORY.

For those who refuse to believe in a visible rapture of the church, there it is, Jesus will come and the angels will gather the elect.

32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

What generation? The generation that witnessed the tribulation, as Jesus said will happen. He was telling us that it was not the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, it was a time in the far future, and the gospel of the kingdom has now been preached in all the world, and the tribulation is upon us.

But see this...

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

Watch and be ready, you don't know the day or the hour.

reply to post by WarminIndy



Jesus even tells you what time of year and what day the great tribulation begins...in winter and on a sabbath day. He's done everything but come right and say that it has already started. The people taken for his name's sake are the christians. Wars and rumors of wars abound, diseases and pestilences like swine flu and avian flu and maybe other things like HIV may be included in that and then the earthquakes in diverse places happening literally every day around the world and every week and strong ones at that.

But the great tribulation begins in winter on a sabbath day (dusk friday to dusk saturday). Now we can further narrow it down and pinpoint the approximate season. All the major players in the Gog and Magog war are in the middle east right now about to fight over Iran and Israel and this leads to the A/C taking power. I'd say theres a better than average chance were in the tribulation right now if you account for Zecharia's last generation prophecy all the requirements are falling into place right now. If the U.K. and U.S. break tie swith Israel to avoid war with Iran that fulfills another Revelation prophecy as Israel will no longer have any allies left. Either way it falls prophecy will be fulfilled.

It's ironic that Jesus told us were practically already in it right now, starting in winter and on a sabbath. I guess we can expect the first shot to be fired in the Israel/Iran war to be on Sabbath...but whose sabbath? Chistians sabbath falls on sunday...and the jew and muslim sabbath is on saturday...so maybe it starts on sunday as neither reveres that day for anything?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Great job here lonewolf!! Right up my alley

I could add some verses that old Chuck missed, but he did a good job as well.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Great job here lonewolf!! Right up my alley

I could add some verses that old Chuck missed, but he did a good job as well.

Wow dude. I've been hearing rumors that Israel could attack Iran in the 28th of January, in 14 days. if they do attack on Jan 28, then they just started the Gog and Magog war in winter on a Saturday the sabbath which coincides with the scripture warminindy posted and will be a fulfillment of prophecy.

Here's a charts that may be of some use, it's someone else's timeline...but the rapture could potentially happen anytime between now and then as a extreme possiblity. Here's the chart:

great tribulation time line

Looks like were currently in the time of sorrows, the actual tribulation may not start until the Gog and Magog war commences.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


What amazes me is this, when people are talking about the end, they seem to jump around this chapter without even viewing it along with Daniel and Revelation. They say those books make no sense and tell other people not to read them.

We can know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Jesus told us it was going to happen. He did not mean it allegorically, He meant it actually. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith and the final authority on the Bible. All we need to understand of any prophecy is what Jesus said and He knew the Scripture well, and read the Scripture and always said "It is written" or "As Scripture has said".

It appears that the wars in the middle east was of a great concern of people back then as it is now. People have not changed their actions and wars and through their arrogance and pride, will continue trying to kill each other. They blame it on Israel, trying to convince the rest of the world that Israel has always been at fault, but the truth is, Israel has had to defend herself many, many times. What is the hatred of the world against Israel? Really, have people asked themselves this? The reason is that Satan is angry with Israel because the Savior was born from her. He set out to make war with her. If people want to believe the church replaced Israel, then they need to be ready to fight the war against Satan. Judaism is our mother, honor and respect her and defend her.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

What amazes me is this, when people are talking about the end, they seem to jump around this chapter without even viewing it along with Daniel and Revelation. They say those books make no sense and tell other people not to read them.

We can know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Jesus told us it was going to happen. He did not mean it allegorically, He meant it actually. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith and the final authority on the Bible. All we need to understand of any prophecy is what Jesus said and He knew the Scripture well, and read the Scripture and always said "It is written" or "As Scripture has said".

It appears that the wars in the middle east was of a great concern of people back then as it is now. People have not changed their actions and wars and through their arrogance and pride, will continue trying to kill each other. They blame it on Israel, trying to convince the rest of the world that Israel has always been at fault, but the truth is, Israel has had to defend herself many, many times. What is the hatred of the world against Israel? Really, have people asked themselves this? The reason is that Satan is angry with Israel because the Savior was born from her. He set out to make war with her. If people want to believe the church replaced Israel, then they need to be ready to fight the war against Satan. Judaism is our mother, honor and respect her and defend her.

I don't think the church replaced Israel, we were adopted into the royal family but we didn't replace it, at least not in my opinion. There's really not much to go on other than people's own personal interpretation. Personally i wouldn't even concern myself with that subject, it doesn't matter and what will be, will be. What matters now is that we stand ready and keep our lamps lit or we end up like the 5 foolish virgins and get stuck in the hell that is coming.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Exactly, we need to watch and be ready because we do not know the day nor the hour. We can never say my Lord delays His coming. He will come right in time and nothing will change that. Watch ye therefore, and be ready. There were many people who were told a day and an hour, it never happened. But what the signs of the times.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Just scanning the first page here . . . as usual, the truth seems to stir up quite a hornet's nest of opposition.

I'll have to view the video to make much comment on it. Certainly the Scripture is true.

I don't understand folks quibbling about Paul . . . except that they must not accept the Bible as truth, truly God's Word.

Thankfully, Christ was right--not the tiniest punctuation part of the Bible will pass away unfulfilled. Heaven and Earth will pass away first.

Thanks for the thread.

At least folks have another chance to be exposed to THE TRUTH.

Events racing toward us are going to alter reality on this planet to enormous degrees . . .

The light is getting lighter and the dark darker.

God is not about to allow satan to have all the dramatic fireworks and supernatural manifestations in the END TIMES.

Certainlyi the Moabites and Edomites are slated for incredible devastations. And the fact that they covet God's lands dedicated to the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob . . . and want to wipe their half brothers off the planet and out of existence is more than sufficient cause for God to deal with them very harshly. They were warned and have been ignoring the warning for centuries.

There are consequences for that.

reply to post by WarminIndy

For the person to believe God is not going to keep His covenants, are just repeating the lies Satan wants them to believe, and Satan wants to pull as many people away from God, he does not want people to be protected under the covenant, and they are destroyed.

Protection is in the covenant, as well as promise. Believe God is well-able to keep His covenants.

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

God declared that His EVERLASTING PROMISES to the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would

REMAIN IN FORCE as long as there were stars, moon and sun.

Jeremiah 31:35-36

35: Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Denial of such facts, truths is hazardous to individual, group and national health.

God WILL HAVE HIS ENEMIES IN DERISION.

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD.

reply to post by sHuRuLuNi




Certainly The Lord will discipline the children of Jacob severely for deserting their relationship with Him so wholesale.

However, the moon god that's the central focus of Islam will generate a MUCH MORE SEVERE THRASHING of Muslims by The Almighty Lord God.

The Bible is clear about God's severe discipline of the children of Ishmael.

His PROMISE TO BLESS THOSE WHO BLESS THE CHILDREN OF JACOB

AND CURSE THOSE WHO CURSE THE CHILDREN OF JACOB

REMAINS FULLY IN FORCE.

Dozens of exhortations in the Koran and the Hadith to violently thrash the Jews; to behead the Jews; to listen to rocks crying out--"there's a Jew hiding behind me--come kill him" . . . to destroy Jews off the face of the earth doesn't sound like

BLESSING THE CHILDREN OF JACOB

to me.