A war with Iran could lead to ...

Originally posted by BANGINCOLOR
"I think you'll find that the only reason America is deemed so powerful is because it is a major nuclear power, otherwise america is actually quite weak. Its currency of the dollar is forever becoming less and less valuable, the American millitary is not equiped with very good/reliable weaponary, and isnt trained as well as some are. Its just the threat that America could fire a nuclear missle anywhere it chooses, and has lots of them that scares the world. "

And all of this is said usually by jealous people that don't live in the United States. The American military is NOT equiped with very good equipment?!?! France, U.K., Isreal, Russia, China, Japan, possibly Germany all have nukes. It's not fear people around the world have, it's respect.

Jelous?! What the hell are we to be jelous OF?! Im proud to be British, I would prefer to be British ALOT MORE than American!!! I would also like to add that I do NOT respect America in any way, infact most of the world hates America, but is scared to death from the fact they have Most of the worlds nuclear weapons.

The American Army is equiped with an M-16/M-4 this, while proven to be a very accurate gun for target/practical shooting, But for combat this gun is just not the right tool! Its not reliable at all, check on the statistics proven, for example the tests done for the M-16 vs AK-47 test, most field results were taken from the vietnam war.

The Americans own MOST of the worlds nuclear weapons, therefore they get fear from that, because they have enough nuclear weapons to level most of the world to the ground, most countries do not have that amount.

Also; Japan and Germany were forbiden from owning Nuclear weapons, being they were the enemies in World War 2, and the countries signed an agreement not to own or produce any Nuclear Weapons.


Anyway, Back on point - I serriously doubt that the Main superpowers of the world would fight each other just for Iran, they would not for fear that if one side got the uper hand, the other side would deploy tactical nuclear weapons to "even the odds" therefore starting a Nuclear War... Do you really think they would risk all of that, for Iran?? I dont

If America does decide to attack Iran, I have this funny feeling they will be going it alone, as the British government certainly knows that if they do it the public will never vote for the party that launched the attack again.

And I really do hope America fouls up that war aswell and actually learns a lesson!! Unlike they did with Vietnam!

Originally posted by verfed
I don't know what Russia will do. I don't know what America will do. China may be involved. North Korea is a major arms suppplier to Iran so they will want a piece of that action. If they Iranians want a war they can start one by attacking Israel after Israel blows up the "nuclear power" plant. Israel does not want a war they just want to eliminate the possibility that a Muslim country will go nuclear. Pakistan is too far away and they are too busy with India.

Israel has threatened Russia many times before and Russia just backs off.
China wont attack, cuz their military depends on Israeli technology.
North Korea? r u serious? In a war, Israel will RAPE them. but that will never happen cuz they're too far from each other. Besides, if N Korea gets involved, the US will come into action.

Israel has threatened Russia many times before and Russia just backs off.

do you have a link to that?

Originally posted by persian

Israel has threatened Russia many times before and Russia just backs off.

do you have a link to that?

Israeli Threats

I remember posting this link once and you said that this link is BS, then how come you are using it?

[edit on 13-9-2004 by persian]

Originally posted by persian
I remember posting this link once and you said that this link is BS, then how come you are using it?

u did? my bad. i never said it was bs, though

i just hope u understand the danger of attacking Israel, especially if they got the "cojones" to threaten Russia!!!

there's a lot of things we dont know about the Dimona facility. The Israeli gov't wont let Vanunu speak. This indicates that those nukes could be more powerful than we think!!! kind of scary if ur the enemy...

I think israel has a huge stockpile of WMD, especially really dirty non-nuclear ones like ricine and other biological and chemical weapons. They are hiding it because it would make them world villain #1 immediately.

Why is Israel allowed to have nuclear weapons but everyone is up to the walls with Iran nuclear program and North Korea. Is Israel somehow better of safer country than Iran or North Korea or is it just that it is supported by US? I don't see US pre-empting South Korea or declaring sanctions against it.

Israel has nukes. ur correct. its too obvious.
at this time, they probably have more than 300 nukes.

but y doesnt the UN tell Pakistan and India to destroy their WMDs?

they cant really do anything about countries that ALREADY HAVE nukes, but they CAN prevent other countries from obtaining them.

Besides, Israel has had nukes for about 50 years now. have they ever used them? NO. so wats the big deal anyway? i'd rather have them in Israel's hands than in Islamic Extremists' hands!!!

Yes, DJAghetto, that's a very good point.

I would like to ask what's people's view on the deployment of Russian sunburns missiles to China, Iran and Syria. Is this be part of a retaliation or an offensive strategy? And would Russia be held accountable for this in view of the fact that it is the only supplier of this technology?

The U.S will not try to hold Rus accountable because 1. U.S. has no right to, 2. The investigation will get DEEPER like why did Russia have to give China sunburns and why are Russia Sukoi's piloted by Russian's in Iran and Syria with Sunburns on them, then the answer will show U.S. lied about Iraq to get oil and give it to hebrews in Palistine AKA= (Jews) so thats why Rus is protecting Iran Syria, but I belive Rus will believe U.S. will not care if sunburns are used against it because U.S. will bring draft to really take over mid east for jews so I believe Rus sees the only way to stop U.S. is to physically fight U.S. so some time in the next 2-3 months Russia will secretly pull it's sunburns out os Syria and Iran and allow U.S. to attack Syria and Iran so Rus will then have the right to attack U.S. mil in the middle east.

It depends on the usage of the sunburns. The SS-N-22s in Iran are under Russian control. The ones actually in Iranian hands aren't equipped with nuclear warheads.

The way I see it, the only way Russia gets nuked is if they directly nuke us. To tell the truth, I think that if Russian controlled nukes in Iran were used on our fleet, that we would let Russia off the hook. We'd nuke the holy hell out of Iran until, then we'd send an army in just to relieve its bladder on the ashes, and we'd tell our citizens that the Iranians had siezed control of the Russian weapons and acted alone.

The key between Russia and America is MAD. MAD is so strong that something called the "single nuke theory" comes into play- there is a theory that for the two nations which have the power to totally wipe somebody out, that they could push the button just once, and everbody would just step back and say WOH, GAME OVER. I dont know if it would work or not, but it seems to be a popular theory.
Here is an example of how the Single Nuke Theory claims to work:

America attacks Iran, and Russian SS-N-22s sink an American carrier group. Some people think that America could hit Russia back with an SLBM against an important Russian military or economic target and that Russia wouldn't dare to retaliate. It supposedly work both ways too.


My gut feeling is that those sunburns aren't being deployed for use though, so the problem will never come up. Russia is selling them as a deterrent, trying to protect it allies from America and make a quick buck in the process. Its a nice try, but not nearly enough to keep America from going after Syria or Iran, although it does force us to be a little more careful about how we do it.
My gut also tells me that America would LOVE to go to war with somebody who has Sunburns so that we can capture a few. This sort of stuff isn't uncommon. The Six Days War was a great thing for America, because in the leadup to that, Israel managed to steal a MiG-21 from Iraq, and America got to look at it too. The military always loves to get into minor dust-ups just to practice, stay sharp, and get a look at enemy hardware in action, as well as capture it when possible.

I don't think any nation, regardless of their ties with Iran, would go to war on their side. North Korea may supply Iran with weapons, systems, and technology but that doesn't mean they have any kind of military agreements. Even if they did, there's not much North Korea could do as far as defending Iran short of giving them nuclear weapons. All they could do is start a second front in the war by attacking South Korea or Japan.

The bottom line is that no country is dumb enough to go to war over Iran being invaded. They don't have a death wish. At most they would support Iran covertly, as we saw with countries supported the regime in Iraq recently. The Russian Special Forces moving Saddam's WMD to Syria, Chinese missiles being fired on Kuwait, French and German technology being found amongst weapons stockpiles, etc.

As far as relations between other countries and Iran, it all comes down to money. Iran lines their pockets in exchange for weapons and nuclear technology. The countries dealing with them make money either through direct cash or cheap oil. If we invaded Iran the only country that would support us would be Israel, and depending on how far from now the war will be, Iraq may as well. However, I think that due to the easy propaganda material we would be giving the Arabs by having Israel join in the military effort, we would just tell them they're better off staying home. But of course we'll take some of that Mossad intelligence! Same deal as was done with Iraq.

Please put your money were your mouth is show us the U.S. satalite pics of Russian specops moving Iraq's "Supposed" WMD's and I f Rus did U.S. would have made a big fuss about it and U.S. would have attcked Syria A LOOOONNNNGGGGG time ago.

[edit on 26-2-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Please put your money were your mouth is show us the U.S. satalite pics of Russian specops moving Iraq's "Supposed" WMD's and I f Rus did U.S. would have made a big fuss about it and U.S. would have attcked Syria A LOOOONNNNGGGGG time ago.

I can't believe I'm even responding to this one... But do you think these Russian Special Forces are driving around in trucks that say "Russian Special Ops" really big on the roofs for us to identify them? Do you think the tractor trailers loaded with WMD say "WMD in Here" on them as well?

Come on now, buddy. I know you're always quick to defend Mother Russia but this is something that has been reported before. Obviously I don't work for the DoD or else I'd provide you with the satellite imagery that shows loads of convoys moving from Iraq into Syria in the weeks leading up to the war. But you can do a search on Google or Yahoo and find an infinate amount of articles dealing with WMD being transported to Syria by Russian Special Ops and then to the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon.

Obviously there is no smoking gun here. There rarely is a smoking gun in the world of intelligence. In fact, this whole site is filled with theories that don't have a smoking gun. This happens to be a story that I feel makes sense and at the very least has SOME credibility to it.


One more thing... Since you told me to put my money where my mouth is, how many rubles do you wanna bet? Or maybe I'll bet you a few pairs of Levy's. Are they still a hot item in Russia? I have a few loafs of bread I can wager as well. Of course you'll need to travel to the Bekaa Valley and personally confirm or deny this story.

[edit on 26-2-2005 by Rasputin13]

PUT your money were your mouth, thats what I said NOW DO IT!! I'll bet you my rep ain't no wmd's in Syria and by the way you can kiss U.S.A. good bey once U.S. attacks Iran it's gonna draw Russia in why because Your nation is nothin but slaves to jewish demands, you can say all that crap about Rus is weak but your socalled tough talkin leadre didn't say any of that tough talk crap he ws sayin in U.S. about Rus when he was in Puttin's face, oh by the way if U.S. is is tougher than Rus and got Rus scared how come U.S. ain't "ORDERIN" Rus to stop buildin the plant for Iran and don't give Urainiam Rods to Iran like I said before if Iraq really did this and U.S. had seen these WMD's going into Syria U.S. would have had the Leagal right to attack the convoys or attack Syria if the convoys already made itfull into Syria NOW PUT YO MONEY WERE YO MOUTH IZ BOOOOOYYYYYYY!!!!!

[edit on 26-2-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Wow SiberianTiger... I'd quote what you said, but I don't want to repeat such a horrible butchering of the English language.

The bottom line is Putin looked like he made a mess in his pants if you saw his facial expressions when Bush told him flat out that Russia needs a free press and that Putin's moves as of late are not in line with democratic values.

If Russia was in such great shape it wouldn't need to sell off so much of its weaponry to third world nations. You should be more worried about that aging and rusted nuclear submarine fleet of your's blowing up your own country than the US doing it for you.

I just think you're harboring ill will towards us for showing you how to invade and take over Afghanistan without losing 30,000 troops and going home with your tail between your legs.

Like I've already said, and I don't know how else I can make this clear to you- the satellite imagery showing the transportation of WMD from Iraq to Syria is not 100% conclusive. Furthermore, the US wasn't sitting there watching it happen live on PPV with missiles pointed at them and the ability to strike instantly. I'm sure it was a combination of the old satellite imagery and ground intelligence that led us to find out AFTER THE FACT that the WMD may have been shipped to Syria. That still doesn't give us a smoking gun to go into Syria with guns blazing. And even if we did, your former shell of a nation wouldn't do a thing to aid them.

Bottom line is Bush will have your boy Putin back at his ranch clearing brush like a stooge in no time!

BOY You Americans tell all type of "FASNTASTIC" lies to make your selves look like the winner don't ya, more lies outta your mouth, you still ain't put your money where your mouth is child ha, NO I don't like Putin but I'll give Him creadit where for things he did DO this is the way Bush spoke to him in a proper manner fella rense.com... 2. SOviet didn't loos 30K, ha Soviets (BTW I'm not a communist but I'll give credit where credit is do) Soviets KIA 11,381, Soviets WIA 36,000, Afgahs killed by Soviet Army 1.2 MILLION there is a difference between a Army "WITHDRAWING" from a nation, from an Army being "DRIVEN OUT" and we all Soviets withdrew and we're not "driven out" and Soviets Union invaded the whole of Afgahn, U.S.A. didn't U.S.A. invaded "PARTS OF AFGAHN" with the "HELP" of 3 of the 5 fighting factions of the Afgahns so even go there hahaahah Russian subs rusting right there in the open, thats how we want it to look so U.S. can really believe Rus is weak and try to attack so Rus can REALLY give U.S. a clobering it will never recover from, and U.S. is falleng for it ALL the way baby HAHAHAHA

[edit on 26-2-2005 by SiberianTiger]

Rense

The news that gets through the tin-foil.....LOL

According to this report, SiberianTiger, though the loses were around the numbers you have cited, the losses were nonetheless staggering for the Russian military:

In Afghanistan, 13,310 Soviet soldiers were killed....losses included 118 jets, 333 helicopters, 147 tanks, 1,314 armored personnel carriers, 433 artillery pieces or mortars..." and over 13,000 vehicles.

--snip--

Of the 642,000 soldiers who served in Afghanistan, nearly 470,000 (73 percent of the force) fell victim to wounds, disease or serious illnesses.

--snip--

It is estimated that "as many as 150,000 Russian officers are currently homeless."

--snip--

Afghanistan40 Chechnya41

Total P/Year Total P/Year % Increase

MA 13,310 1,331 4,379 2,189 +64%

WA 35,478 3,548 13,270 6,635 +87%

MIA 311 31 1,000+ 500+ +1,512%

Afghanistan And Chechnya: Low Intensity Preludes To Another Revolution





seekerof

[edit on 26-2-2005 by Seekerof]